Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[PromisedLand]

Anyway, I wonder what this trade does for Mitch Marner and the Toronto Maple Leafs? Reinforce their mutual interest and commitment to one another, or does it push the relationship into a purely transactional, asset management, contract maximization stance?

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

 

[Antropovsky]

[

There’s no justification for Tavares having more market value than Nylander. If they were both UFAs right now it would not be close as to the offers received. Any attempts to rationalize it are laughable.

Curious does it take into account linemates? Nylander has played with 3rd liners most of the year.

 

[IPS]

Necas say at $10mil is different from Rantanen at $13-14 mil.

I think the key is that he won’t ask for more than MacKinnon. Have to give them credit to putting their team structure first. Or it could be as simple as Rantanen not wanting to be there

Everything I've seen said that Rantanen wanted to be there.

It's very likely that he perceived his last contract he gave the Avs as a bargain and stated his intentions that he doesn't want to give another one.

Internal cap is a very real thing and it turns out that some teams actually take it quite serious, contrary to the absolute nonsense spouted on this board.

 

[Antropovsky]

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

This deal wouldve made Marner #$%$ himself yesterday and probably would have made him really think about his bottom price.. but Dubas gave him a NMC lol.

Then again, he probably would've been moved in the summer.

 

[IPS]

Plus if the cap is rising at a massive rate that would also soften the Rantanen cap hit they would have paid. What’s the actual delta here that they’re trying to manage? $12.5 million vs $14 million? They ended their era with that core over $1.5 million in cap savings? That’s a 1.5% if the cap is $100 million.

Seems it was more the principle of putting $$$ over the team. Not the culture they're trying to build in Colorado.

 

[1specter]

Everything I've seen said that Rantanen wanted to be there.

It's very likely that he perceived his last contract he gave the Avs as a bargain and stated his intentions that he doesn't want to give another one.

Internal cap is a very real thing and it turns out that some teams actually take it quite serious, contrary to the absolute nonsense spouted on this board.

Yep, and if Marner wants to be here then hopefully he has the sense to not demand more than Matthews.

 

[Stephen]

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

At the end of the day, I think the Stanley Cup weighs heavily in this decision. They've already won it and can turn the page for whatever reason they come up with. With Toronto, I think there's a business case to keep or move Marner, but there's got to be a bit more hesitation to bin the program having not seen it through. If we had won one of the 2020-2024 cups, I could see Toronto choosing to turn the page.

 

[Americanadian]

By all accounts the leafs haven’t offered him a market value deal. But hf boards is gonna hf boards. (Speculate to death)

Nor should they. If the market is only 1 team than they dictate what is market value.

 

[GoonieFace]

Anyway, I wonder what this trade does for Mitch Marner and the Toronto Maple Leafs? Reinforce their mutual interest and commitment to one another, or does it push the relationship into a purely transactional, asset management, contract maximization stance?

I don’t think this organization pays any attention to what’s happening around the league. I mean they have 4 of the 11 highest salaries in the league

 

[Menzinger]

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

Based on Tre's career so far, the best bet is for him to take the most conservative option, which is an extension

 

[PromisedLand]

Based on Tre's career so far, the best bet is for him to take the most conservative option, which is an extension

yeea... thats not good for my sanity

more importantly.... not good for serious shot at the Cup for the Leafs

 

[29Potvin]

Yep, and if Marner wants to be here then hopefully he has the sense to not demand more than Matthews.

I agree with this in theory, but we all know Matthews will be looking for more money in three years.
If you are Mitch and you take lets say 12.9x8 so you can help the team structure what happens in three years and Matthews get 15-16?
If i was Mitch I would offer 4yrs 12.9.
Keeps the internal structure and gives you flexibility Matthew reups for 15-16 you ask for a couple hundred thousand less on the next one.
Lets all be honest Mitch believes he is worth as much as Matthews

 

[Stephen]

I don’t think this organization pays any attention to what’s happening around the league. I mean they have 4 of the 11 highest salaries in the league

Neither here nor there, but I'd make the argument the Toronto Maple Leafs and a handful of teams don't actually belong in the NHL. They probably have the financial power of a marquee NBA franchise and really shouldn't be swimming in these waters.

 

[IPS]

I agree with this in theory, but we all know Matthews will be looking for more money in three years.
If you are Mitch and you take lets say 12.9x8 so you can help the team structure what happens in three years and Matthews get 15-16?
If i was Mitch I would offer 4yrs 12.9.
Keeps the internal structure and gives you flexibility Matthew reups for 15-16 you ask for a couple hundred thousand less on the next one.
Lets all be honest Mitch believes he is worth as much as Matthews

A lot of presumption here.

If these next 3 years go exactly how the last 8 of gone are we really still gonna be "run it back" mode?

 

[francis246]

I agree with this in theory, but we all know Matthews will be looking for more money in three years.
If you are Mitch and you take lets say 12.9x8 so you can help the team structure what happens in three years and Matthews get 15-16?
If i was Mitch I would offer 4yrs 12.9.
Keeps the internal structure and gives you flexibility Matthew reups for 15-16 you ask for a couple hundred thousand less on the next one.
Lets all be honest Mitch believes he is worth as much as Matthews

I don’t think Mitch goes 4 years. Doubt he wants to go through another negotiation in 4 years. I don’t think Mitch and Willy are as much into the short term play as Matthews is.

 

[Jojalu]

this is how Avs dealt with the situation


Does Treliving have the guts to do the right thing?

Does he even have permission to make the tough decision if it goes that far?

I still am not 100% convinced that it isn't Shanahan that has decided he wants to keep the 4 of them together.

 

[Stephen]

Seems it was more the principle of putting $$$ over the team. Not the culture they're trying to build in Colorado.

Not a perfect analogy, but to use the 1980s Edmonton Oilers as a comparison, they've just traded their Mark Messier/Jari Kurri hybrid to try and spend more money at the Glenn Anderson, Esa Tikkanen class. I don't think Necas will cover all the bases, and they are a worse team today than last evening. I don't think they'll find replacement value on the rental market. So I think it's really doom and gloom time in Colorado.

But I'm not rooting for them to have success, and I'm often wrong. So we'll see.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Neither here nor there, but I'd make the argument the Toronto Maple Leafs and a handful of teams don't actually belong in the NHL. They probably have the financial power of a marquee NBA franchise and really shouldn't be swimming in these waters.

Then they shouldn't have given Bettman full support to negotiate a hard cap.

 

[PromisedLand]

Does he even have permission to make the tough decision if it goes that far?

I still am not 100% convinced that it isn't Shanahan that has decided he wants to keep the 4 of them together.

marner has a full nmc/ntc.

Also there were rumors not sure how true that after dubas' ass was fired shanny apparently called the core 4 and told them they are not going to be traded

 

[francis246]

marner has a full nmc/ntc.

Also there were rumors not sure how true that after dubas' ass was fired shanny apparently called the core 4 and told them they are not going to be traded

That wasn’t a rumour that came directly from Shanahan in his press conference lol.

 

[29Potvin]

A lot of presumption here.

If these next 3 years go exactly how the last 8 of gone are we really still gonna be "run it back" mode?

JT and Mo will be moved before MM/AM and Willy.
Thats almost 18mil in savings and a culture change

 

[IPS]

JT and Mo will be moved before MM/AM and Willy.
Thats almost 18mil in savings and a culture change

To build around what, Marner and Matthews in their early-mid thirties?

If he we don't win anything in 3 years it's curtains on this whole show dude.

 

[Jozay]

Anyway, I wonder what this trade does for Mitch Marner and the Toronto Maple Leafs? Reinforce their mutual interest and commitment to one another, or does it push the relationship into a purely transactional, asset management, contract maximization stance?

Nothing. Marner has his number, the Leafs will meet him there. As they always do.

 

[ToneDog]

I’m gonna reserve judgement till I see Rantanen’s comments. But now we are seeing they had negotiations this week and also they didn’t talk to him months prior. I’m gonna continue to hammer home, this situation doesn’t seem money related. Seems culture/character related. Something about Rantanen put them off. On an 8 year deal they could have made the money work to where it’s equal to 14x7. Something doesn’t quite feel right.

Normally they would have met in the middle between $12.6m and $14+. Say $13.5 but no chance if Sakic refused to go over $12.6m, as some insiders have said. Maybe, as @IPS said, Ranta felt slighted in his last contract which led to hard feelings. No idea.

 

[LeafEgo]

My feeling is you need the superstars to lead the way but you can't miss on the value contracts. Rantanen makes them special. You add a Kadri and Landeskog in his place with the cap flexibility, they aren't as good a team.

You'll find people on both sides of the aisle here so it'll be interesting to watch this one play out. Ranta is special but you don't need to have more than Mack and Makar. This will give them flexibility over the next eight years to shape the roster and Necas is a pretty good start.

A lot of strategic parallels with the Leafs. They won round one after declining on dubie and winning a cup. If we keep Marner than round two begins.