NHL Talk Miscellaneous NHL Discussion CIX: Processing a Tremendous Amount of Insane Information

[deadhead]

Pittsburgh says hi.

In the cap era, those 4 teams have won 10 of the 19 Cups and were in the finals without winning 3 times.

That doesn't account for the Bruins and they won one Cup with 2 more finals appearances or other teams with a Cup win and a finals appearance like Detroit, Florida or Vegas.

One and done in the Finals is more the exception than the rule.

The Bruins:
Top players on the Cup team:
Lucic #50
Krejci #63
Bergeron #45
Horton, T 1st, 3rd, Wideman
Recchi (42), T with 2nd for Karsums and Lashoff
Ryder - FA, 2008
Marchand #71
Chara - FA, 2006
Seidenberg - T, 2nd rd
Kaberle - T, 1st, 2nd
Boychuck - T, Hendricks
Thomas G

Top players from 2019 team, SC Finals
Marchand
Pastrnak #25
Bergeron
Krejci
DeBrusk #14
Heinen #116
Kuraly, T with 1st for Marvin Jones G
Backes, FA 2016
Wagner, FA 2018
McAvoy #14
Carlo #37
Chara
Krug UDFA
Grzelcyk #85
Rask G

I hate the way these things are phrased by both sides.

My position is always and forever this -- All progress made by your org as a result of players who will still solidly be in their prime when you're next ready to contend is good. All progress made by others would be better served taking another route.

It's not about tanking or not. It is about locking into a core on the same timeline.

Or having a pipeline that arrives when your older cohort ages out.
Top teams tend to have a core in their mid-20s, but a few solid starters in their early 30s or so.

 

[Cody Webster]

Wait, hold up, we're now saying the Flyers are good at developing goalies and it's their strongest suit? In what f***ing world?

Between this comment and the one about copying Carolina, we're just straight up trolling at this point

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Or having a pipeline that arrives when your older cohort ages out.
Top teams tend to have a core in their mid-20s, but a few solid starters in their early 30s or so.

Yes, exactly! Buuuut I do feel the need to point out that this is the Hextall plan you dislike so much.

 

[freakydallas13]

"Be the Bruins, they won without tanking!"

Right, we just need to draft a generational Selke player, trade for a Norris D-man, and have a goalie put up a Vezina/Conn Smythe type season.

Just do those things.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Trusting the pro, and amateur scouting staff of the Philadelphia Flyers organization to build something actually worth a damn (without top 5 picks) is the one little wrinkle in this.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

They literally did by trading Carter and Richards.

But to be fair that was many years ago and seemingly the Flyers have followed the path of least resistance for many years now. Everyone gets re-signed and the malcontents get shipped out.

Then again as I type that out... the same thing happened with Carter and Richards with Snider demanding they be sent out.

 

[pit]

The Bruins:
Top players on the Cup team:
Lucic #50
Krejci #63
Bergeron #45
Horton, T 1st, 3rd, Wideman
Recchi (42), T with 2nd for Karsums and Lashoff
Ryder - FA, 2008
Marchand #71
Chara - FA, 2006
Seidenberg - T, 2nd rd
Kaberle - T, 1st, 2nd
Boychuck - T, Hendricks
Thomas G

Top players from 2019 team, SC Finals
Marchand
Pastrnak #25
Bergeron
Krejci
DeBrusk #14
Heinen #116
Kuraly, T with 1st for Marvin Jones G
Backes, FA 2016
Wagner, FA 2018
McAvoy #14
Carlo #37
Chara
Krug UDFA
Grzelcyk #85
Rask G


Or having a pipeline that arrives when your older cohort ages out.
Top teams tend to have a core in their mid-20s, but a few solid starters in their early 30s or so.

So did you skip the Penguins, Kings, Blackhawks and Lightning, as well as Golden Knights and Panthers, to focus on the fact that one team had a very similar core but not the exact same roster in 2019 as they did in 2011? Top players also seem highly selective as I don't think Kuraly in 2019 had more impact than Seguin in 2011.

This seems like an exercise in searching for exceptions when the overwhelming evidence from winners since the start of the cap era is that you need to consolidate high-end talent talent that is in a similar window of contention to have the best chance of success. That doesn't mean you drop other means of acquiring talent. Trades, FA acquisitions, all of those things are important alongside drafting. Right now we're not seeing any of these branches bearing fruit in a way that looks promising.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Shit, now I want to teach my wife craps, but she will become addicted to it. I know this. It is a risk. She'd never actually gambled before, and we started betting on random nonsense using Blackjack and a very simple version of 5 card poker without any draws, just what you're dealt is what you get for speed, and after she won a bunch of my Skittles I could see the gambling addiction taking hold in her eyes. She wants to go to a Casino now

RIP ur savings...

 

[deadhead]

Yes, exactly! Buuuut I do feel the need to point out that this is the Hextall plan you dislike so much.

Well, if he could have executed it.

Shouldn't have stopped after Coburn and Kimmo, build up your pipeline over 2-3 years, not one big move and stop for 2 years then start again.

Briere so far has compressed (6) 1sts and (6) 2nds in a 3 year window, would like to see him add a top pick or two for 2026 (and get more value by delaying a year).

Then decide on his core players, and trade others in their mid to late 20s as younger players emerge behind them.

 

[freakydallas13]

Briere so far has compressed (6) 1sts and (6) 2nds in a 3 year window, would like to see him add a top pick or two for 2026 (and get more value by delaying a year).

Briere inherited some of those picks, so giving him credit for them seems odd.

Also, Hextall made 7 first round picks in 4 years. And he inherited none of those.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

How on God’s green Earth is Briere getting credit for some of those picks?

Unless you’re going to tell me that Briere wasn’t just some outsider.

You can’t have it both ways.

 

[freakydallas13]

How on God’s green Earth is Briere getting credit for some of those picks?

Unless you’re going to tell me that Briere wasn’t just some outsider.

You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, exactly! Buuuut I do feel the need to point out that this is the Hextall plan you dislike so much.

It will never stop being funny to me that they fired Hextall basically exclusively for not sucking up to Clarke enough. They kept all his hockey decisions. They kept his development priorities and processes. After a very brief and very failed attempt at contending, they're right back to using his team-building plan.

They liked everything the guy was doing. They weren't even eager to fire his coach and were clearly gonna let him finish out the year! They still like what he was doing. The only unacceptable thing was the lack of fealty to the Olds. If they never fire him, the team would be in the same condition but with several more prospects in the pool.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"Be the Bruins, they won without tanking!"

Right, we just need to draft a generational Selke player, trade for a Norris D-man, and have a goalie put up a Vezina/Conn Smythe type season.

Just do those things.

And not any Vezina/Conn Smythe season; a season that is matched in hockey lore only by Bernie Parent. A top 2 season of all time, behind a team stacked by a ridiculous level of providence. Considering how long they remained relevant contenders after blowing the 2015 draft so severely and being managed by total slobs, perhaps Bismarck should have said "God has a special providence for drunks, fools, the United States of America, and the 2010s Bruins."

Honestly it's a bad look for Bismarck to overlook something so obvious. Maybe he wasn't so smart after all.

 

[Magua]

View attachment 946873

Can’t spell “Carolina Hurricanes Forecheck” without “crack.”

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can’t spell “Carolina Hurricanes Forecheck” without “crack.”

Or "Unclean Renal"

 

[Cody Webster]

Rangers just in shambles

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Kakko has good point

His offensive production may not be great but he has been among Rangers best forwards defensively

And despite his offensive limitations he is outperforming several vets who are not being held accountable

Its best for kid if he gets out of NY and a fresh start

 

[FlyerNutter]

Makes me laugh a bit to see Kakko going public, and Frost has silently been taking it up the ass for years.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Rangers just in shambles

 

[deadhead]

Kakko has good point

His offensive production may not be great but he has been among Rangers best forwards defensively

And despite his offensive limitations he is outperforming several vets who are not being held accountable

Its best for kid if he gets out of NY and a fresh start

Kakko would be fine if he was #20, not #2.
He'll never live up to expectations, but he's a solid middle six forward.

 

[Cody Webster]

Frost for Kakko swap

 

[freakydallas13]

Future Flyer Dylan Cozens with the Sabres' only goal. Sabres losing 6-1 going into the 3rd, about to lose their 11th game in a row

 

[Curufinwe]

Buffalo really are another level of bad

 

[BernieParent]

Shit, now I want to teach my wife craps, but she will become addicted to it. I know this. It is a risk. She'd never actually gambled before, and we started betting on random nonsense using Blackjack and a very simple version of 5 card poker without any draws, just what you're dealt is what you get for speed, and after she won a bunch of my Skittles I could see the gambling addiction taking hold in her eyes. She wants to go to a Casino now

On band trips, I was the usual winner of penny-ante Blackjack, so I thought I had a reasonable handle on the game. Years later Mrs. Parent and I went to a hotel that had a fun casino; you bought $20 worth of chips but no money is won. I went to the Blackjack table. I don't think I lasted 10 minutes before my chips were gone. Any idea that I could do well with gambling died at that table.