NHL Talk Miscellaneous NHL Discussion CIX: Processing a Tremendous Amount of Insane Information

[Beef Invictus]

This is a team that had no staying power in terms of cup contention, either before or after their cup win.

They are the prime example of a lucky cup run. Which is great, good for them. But it's not exactly a sustainable plan to build your franchise around.

How many times do teams like that actually win? Once every 50 years?

Gee what a model. Shooting low and hoping for a wild lucky ricochet to hit the target.

 

[freakydallas13]

what exactly is your plan? you want a dynasty or this organization sucks? like one cup isnt good enough for you?

I want the team to be more involved in the planning process past "maybe we'll get lucky".

 

[ponder719]

what exactly is your plan? you want a dynasty or this organization sucks? like one cup isnt good enough for you?

Why in Christ's name would you voluntarily negotiate yourself downward from "dynasty"? Yes, that's what we should be shooting for, it's what every team should be shooting for. If they aim for that, and miss, then at least maybe they'll win the goddamned Cup once before I die. If they aim for "let's maybe be good enough once," and miss, then we don't even get that.

 

[PDX Flyer]

This has to be singular posters with multiple accounts. It can’t go this far…..please?

 

[CutOnDime97]

What is this league even going to be after the CHL NCAA stuff?

 

[CutOnDime97]

QMJHL Returns To Newfoundland With Sale Of Titan

RDS' Stephane Leroux reports that the the QMJHL board of governors have approved the sale of the Acadie-Bathurst Titan franchise to an ownership group based in St. John's, Newfoundland. The exact sale price is currently unknown, but Leroux believes it sold for just above $5.5 million. It is...

ca.sports.yahoo.com

QMJHL Returns To Newfoundland With Sale Of Titan

RDS' Stephane Leroux reports that the the QMJHL board of governors have approved the sale of the Acadie-Bathurst Titan franchise to an ownership group based in St. John's, Newfoundland.

 

[tucson83]

I want the team to be more involved in the planning process past "maybe we'll get lucky".

alright look at buffalo sabres, that's prime example of what happens if you dont hit on players, not winning and talent there leaves, you really think if you are going to attract fas if you are not winning and not hitting on players, you really think star fas are that stupid?

if you think buffalo doing the tanking method is great plan why are big fas not going there? why should they go there, if they not going to create a winning culture?

if it's not working buffalo, why should the flyers do it if it's not going to attract anyone, that's going to get the team over the hump? if you honestly believe that big fas dont care about winning cultures, that's messed up.

 

[ellja3]

Do we have any comments from FO re: what we can expect at deadline? Surely we are not contenders to go far in PO (lol) but the way standings / teams are looking right now with NYR and BOS looking shaky and even Ottawa of all teams contending for WC2 - we will surely be in the PO mix around Feb

 

[ponder719]

alright look at buffalo sabres, that's prime example of what happens if you dont hit on players, not winning and talent there leaves, you really think if you are going to attract fas if you are not winning and not hitting on players, you really think star fas are that stupid?

if you think buffalo doing the tanking method is great plan why are big fas not going there? why should they go there, if they not going to create a winning culture?

if it's not working buffalo, why should the flyers do it if it's not going to attract anyone, that's going to get the team over the hump? if you honestly believe that big fas dont care about winning cultures, that's messed up.

So, because one team that tried tanking can't evaluate players correctly, it doesn't ever work? Try telling that to Tampa, Colorado, Chicago, or Pittsburgh, all of whom tanked, all of whom got Cups out of the deal, three of whom got multiple Cups.

The Flyers should do it because the alternative is spinning their wheels in the pack of mediocre non-entities forever. They should do it because the only way to develop a winning culture is taking big swings to change a losing culture, which is what we already have. They should do it because not trying is f***ing stupid.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

alright look at buffalo sabres, that's prime example of what happens if you dont hit on players, not winning and talent there leaves, you really think if you are going to attract fas if you are not winning and not hitting on players, you really think star fas are that stupid?

if you think buffalo doing the tanking method is great plan why are big fas not going there? why should they go there, if they not going to create a winning culture?

if it's not working buffalo, why should the flyers do it if it's not going to attract anyone, that's going to get the team over the hump? if you honestly believe that big fas dont care about winning cultures, that's messed up.

Huh so it sounds like you need to draft talent and have a savvy front office in order to see on ice success? Lucky for the Flyers they neither draft talent or have a savvy front office. Plan the parade

 

[deadhead]

Colorado:
2009: #3 Duchene, #33 ROR - both traded
2010: #17 Hishon
2011: #2 Landeskog, #11 Siemens
2012: no 1st
2013: #1 McKinnon, #32 Bigras
2014: #23 Bleackley
2015: #10 Rantanen
2016: #10 Jost
2017: #4 Makar, #32 Timmins
2018: #16 Kaut
2019: #4 Byram, #16 Newhook,
Basically lucked into McKinnon, without him they never sniff a SC

Tampa Bay:
2008: #1 Stamkos
2009: #2 Hedman, #52 Panik
2010: #6 Connolly, #66 Gudas
2011: #27 Namestnikov, #58 Kucherov, #208 Palat
2012: #10 Koekkoek, #19 Vasilevskey, #101 Paquette
2013: #3 Drouin
2014: #19 TDA, #79 Point
2015: #33 Stephens, #72 Cirelli
2016: #27 Howden, #58 Raddysh, #118 Colton
2017: #14 Foote
Tanking didn't make them a dynasty, great drafting after the 1st rd did

Chicago
2000: #10 Yakubov, #11 Vorobyov
2001: #9 Ruutu
2002: #21 Babchuk, #54 Keith, #156 Wisniewski
2003: #14 Seabrook, #54 Crawford G, #245 Byfuglien
2004: #3 Barker, #32 Bolland, #214 Brouwer
2005: #7 Skille, #108 Hjalmarsson
2006: #3 Toews
2007: #1 Kane
2008: #11 Beach
2009: #28 Olsen, #149 Kruger
2010: #24 Hayes
2011: #18 McNeil, #26 Danault, #43 Saad, #139 Shaw
2012: #18 Teravainen
2013: #30 Hartman

 

[Beef Invictus]

alright look at buffalo sabres, that's prime example of what happens if you dont hit on players, not winning and talent there leaves, you really think if you are going to attract fas if you are not winning and not hitting on players, you really think star fas are that stupid?

if you think buffalo doing the tanking method is great plan why are big fas not going there? why should they go there, if they not going to create a winning culture?

if it's not working buffalo, why should the flyers do it if it's not going to attract anyone, that's going to get the team over the hump? if you honestly believe that big fas dont care about winning cultures, that's messed up.

Look at all the teams that succeeded.

We are already the same or worse than Buffalo. Buffalo isn't some threat. We ARE that. Zero difference, except that they have more upside.

 

[BernieParent]

So, because one team that tried tanking can't evaluate players correctly, it doesn't ever work? Try telling that to Tampa, Colorado, Chicago, or Pittsburgh, all of whom tanked, all of whom got Cups out of the deal, three of whom got multiple Cups.

The Flyers should do it because the alternative is spinning their wheels in the pack of mediocre non-entities forever. They should do it because the only way to develop a winning culture is taking big swings to change a losing culture, which is what we already have. They should do it because not trying is f***ing stupid.

Let me go (once again) on record that I hate the concept of tanking, and the rewards earned from blatant actions of Pittsburgh (repeatedly), Chicago, and Edmonton are a blight on the history of the NHL.

That being said, it is indisputable that drafting top 5 -- or top 7 if preceded by multiple stupid clubs -- is the best way to add high-end talent, particularly as the current salary structures compels teams to maximize the value of ELCs. You need luck for high-end talent to be there, of course; more McDavid than Yakupov. But for goodness' sake, have a plan when you announce you will be rebuilding! The Buium/Luchanko incident all but eroded my optimism after landing Michkov a year earlier, as it smacked of drafting for roles and the coach's play style rather than BPA. This approach is almost a deliberate license to make safe high floor/mid ceiling picks and continue to reap the old-guard adoration for playing the "right" way with a try-hard lineup.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

MacKINNON

He's only one of the top few players in the NHL. It's about damn time we spell his name correctly.

Also, the fact that the Avs traded Duchene is one of the big reasons that they became what they did. The Flyers organization would NEVER do that.

 

[pit]

I don't understand this bolding scheme. Was Landeskog at #2 not the captain of a SC winner? Did Tampa not turn Drouin into Sergachev, who helped anchor the top four? Was Point not a huge contributor? Do traded Duchene and ROR and thus their returns not count?

What is the point being made here?

 

[ponder719]

Also love how deady just kind of elided past Landeskog, and "Tanking didn't make them a dynasty" kind of skipped the part where the tank reeled in Stamkos and Hedman, two of the four superstars that made Tampa a dynasty.

I don't understand this bolding scheme. Was Landeskog at #2 not the captain of a SC winner? Did Tampa not turn Drouin into Sergachev, who helped anchor the top four? Was Point not a huge contributor? Do traded Duchene and ROR and thus their returns not count?

What is the point being made here?

The point, as always, is "Flyer plan good, not Flyer plan bad."

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The point of the high picks is that you then need to hit home runs on less later ones. Not that it absolves you from ever having to draft well. This is all so weird.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Let me go (once again) on record that I hate the concept of tanking, and the rewards earned from blatant actions of Pittsburgh (repeatedly), Chicago, and Edmonton are a blight on the history of the NHL.

That being said, it is indisputable that drafting top 5 -- or top 7 if preceded by multiple stupid clubs -- is the best way to add high-end talent, particularly as the current salary structures compels teams to maximize the value of ELCs. You need luck for high-end talent to be there, of course; more McDavid than Yakupov. But for goodness' sake, have a plan when you announce you will be rebuilding! The Buium/Luchanko incident all but eroded my optimism after landing Michkov a year earlier, as it smacked of drafting for roles and the coach's play style rather than BPA. This approach is almost a deliberate license to make safe high floor/mid ceiling picks and continue to reap the old-guard adoration for playing the "right" way with a try-hard lineup.

The luck factor is why you need to be drafting there repeatedly.

Of course, after that there is the non-luck stuff. Competent team building and development. There lies the trick. And the only reason that people can scorn this route as unlikely to succeed is that the teams forced down this route are the teams least able to build around whoever they draft.

That's not an indictment against drafting high. It's an indictment against bad management.

 

[freakydallas13]

I mean "maybe we'll get lucky" has worked out great for the Flyers the last 50 years, so obviously we should keep doing that.

 

[Curufinwe]

MacKINNON

He's only one of the top few players in the NHL. It's about damn time we spell his name correctly.

Also, the fact that the Avs traded Duchene is one of the big reasons that they became what they did. The Flyers organization would NEVER do that.

McKinon has only been a dominate player for seven and a half seasons. That's clearly not enough time to learn how to spell his name.

 

[freakydallas13]

The point of the high picks is that you then need to hit home runs on less later ones. Not that it absolves you from ever having to draft well. This is all so weird.

Authentics consistently have the worst bad faith arguments I've ever seen. They really commit to the bit.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Let me go (once again) on record that I hate the concept of tanking, and the rewards earned from blatant actions of Pittsburgh (repeatedly), Chicago, and Edmonton are a blight on the history of the NHL.

Join us in the Gold drafting camp, Bern. I really do not understand why at least one league hasn't tried it yet.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Tim Peel is unhinged.

 

[deadhead]

The point is tanking is a fool's errand, to be successful, with the lottery, you have to be as lucky as NJ who landed the #1 pick twice. Or you can be the Flyers who landed the #2 pick twice and ended up with JVR and Patrick.

The strategy is less important than the implementation.
Either you can scout and develop players or any strategy is doomed to fail unless you're extremely lucky.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Luckily the Flyers are neither historically lucky nor can they scout and develop players!

It's almost like the people calling for a complete overhaul of the organization might be onto something! Don't worry, you'll convince yourself that you were the first one to think about that in a couple of years.