expect we might add St. John's Newfoundland to the schorched ice list after the demise of DSE AND the Growlers by the ECHL I just got a weird response about Newfoundland/T/R in the Q Thread/FORUM and had the poster realized that the Q had already been in St. John's post MLSE
Minor Pro "Scorched Ice" Markets?
- Thread starter JMCx4
- Start date
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
Albany, aka "America's Worst Sports Town", is the No. 1 scorched ice market, at least for pro hockey. I highly doubt there will be a team in the MVP Arena anytime soon.
And spare me the BS about Glens Falls being the same market. It's an hour drive. It's the same market for television, sure, but I highly doubt that even 5% of the crowd on a given night (240 is 5% of a sellout at the 4,806-seat GFCC) at a Thunder game are driving up from Albany or even the northern Albany suburbs.
The No. 2 is Elmira, which was too small to support UHL or ECHL hockey and never had a good owner with enough money to do things the right way. The arena was a well-intentioned idea to develop some land and bring some people back to downtown, but between Mostafa Afr, Steve Donner, and Don "The Con" Kirnan, the place never had a chance. Robbie Nichols has had the good ideas and did the best he could, but even in the Federal League, you have a lot of expenses to cover, and a town as small as Elmira is always going to have trouble making it work.
And spare me the BS about Glens Falls being the same market. It's an hour drive. It's the same market for television, sure, but I highly doubt that even 5% of the crowd on a given night (240 is 5% of a sellout at the 4,806-seat GFCC) at a Thunder game are driving up from Albany or even the northern Albany suburbs.
The No. 2 is Elmira, which was too small to support UHL or ECHL hockey and never had a good owner with enough money to do things the right way. The arena was a well-intentioned idea to develop some land and bring some people back to downtown, but between Mostafa Afr, Steve Donner, and Don "The Con" Kirnan, the place never had a chance. Robbie Nichols has had the good ideas and did the best he could, but even in the Federal League, you have a lot of expenses to cover, and a town as small as Elmira is always going to have trouble making it work.
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Don't think you'll ever see a pro Men's team in the Tsongas Arena in Lowell again. AHL Devils wanted out and UMass wanted them gone. Before the women's team started playing there, I would have said you'd never see a pro-team there period, since UMass wanted total control of the arena.
Pretty much all of Atlantic Canada can be written off at this point.
Pretty much all of Atlantic Canada can be written off at this point.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
With the school owning the arena, that's basically a given. The PWHL is ok because it won't really cut into the UML ticket revenue stream and only plays, what, 24 home games, some of which are elsewhere?
Agree on Atlantic Canada. The money isn't there to support pro hockey anymore.
Sorry but Adirondack definitely gets support from greater Albany area. Saratoga, Clifton Park, Half-moon, Malta, all are northern Albany burbs. Where do you think these folks work, vast majority Albany, Schenectady, and Troy. Some guy "thinks" that's BS lol, he doesn't even live here lol. Good thing opinions don't matter. Albany County is not interested in stepping on the toes of Glens Falls and the Adirondack Thunder. Albany County knows between the Thunder, RPI Engineers, and soon the Union Garnett Chargers will be playing in a new arena in nearby Schenectady. It's too much local competition with well established hockey programs in the area. It's just too much a gamble. Adirondack has built something special, to me making the 30 more minute drive to Glens Falls beats the 20 minute drive drive down to Albany's arena and most local hockey fans who still support the minor and college programs would agree with me. Imagine a guy from out of town whose sources are mostly fake news mixed with his own bias and opinion is going to convince me otherwise lol. Leave commenting on an area for the locals if you want accurate opinions.
Oklahoma City is another Scorched market. The main arena is too busy with the NBA to offer quality dates, and the arena that actually had hockey got turned into a movie filming complex. This was despite the Blazers and Barons existing for more than 20 years in the modern era. The only thing left is the Oklahoma Warriors NAHL program.
Is this one of those reCAPTCHA "I'm not a robot
... Select all images below that match this one ..." spam screening things? I'm NEVER any good at those ... 
Greensboro.
The ECHL Monarchs were a hit. Everyone else hated them, they were pretty much the Broad Street Bullies of that league.
The AHL thought the fans would love an "upgrade" and "better skilled players". The fans didn't appreciate this.
The Hurricanes two-season stint there didn't go well although it gave hockey fans in the city the opportunity to see Gretzky, Lemuix, Jagr, Roy, Broduer, Yzerman etc.
The ECHL Generals were a flop. It's been 20 years since Hockey was in Greensboro. Nearby Winston-Salem has had a few cups of coffee with the SPHL but those teams play in an annex building next to WFUs Basketball and Football stadiums. Not really a recipe for success.
The ECHL Monarchs were a hit. Everyone else hated them, they were pretty much the Broad Street Bullies of that league.
The AHL thought the fans would love an "upgrade" and "better skilled players". The fans didn't appreciate this.
The Hurricanes two-season stint there didn't go well although it gave hockey fans in the city the opportunity to see Gretzky, Lemuix, Jagr, Roy, Broduer, Yzerman etc.
The ECHL Generals were a flop. It's been 20 years since Hockey was in Greensboro. Nearby Winston-Salem has had a few cups of coffee with the SPHL but those teams play in an annex building next to WFUs Basketball and Football stadiums. Not really a recipe for success.
For the record, the FHL/FPHL Carolina Thunderbirds have built a solid franchise & very respectable attendance figures in their 6 seasons of play in The Annex (W-S Fairgrounds Arena). So I wouldn't lump that hockey market in with Greensboro at this point.
They're probably the most popular team in the league, all things considered. If anything, they seemed to have motivated the league to expand South and West as the league originally stuck around New England and the Great Lakes for much of its early years.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
It's such a "not bad" market that there's no interest in putting a team in the empty arena over the past six years!
The arena hasn't hosted hockey since the end of the 2018-19 season. The ECHL has added six teams since the ECHL Monarchs folded. It is a stretch to even call Manchester a hockey market at this point.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
Let's not let reality get in the way of expansionist delusion!
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
I said people probably do go up to Thunder game from Albany - I suggested it was 5% of the average crowd, or about 240 people. Do you really, really think there are more than that driving 45 minutes to an hour in the dark of winter or in the snow to go see ECHL hockey?
I lived in Troy for two years of my adult life, and it wasn't the worst place I've lived as an adult. A good owner with sufficient capital and a willingness to do the legwork could come into the Times Union Center with an ECHL membership and do really well, especially since RPI and Union are bottom tier teams in the ECAC and aren't going to be on the rise anytime soon. But it won't, at least partly because the arena management doesn't want hockey and partly because no sane owner is going to throw money down the black hole that is sports in Albany.
It says a lot about the greater Albany market that they saw the four-team, Leonsis-dominated Arena Football League as a big deal, only to see the league collapse because the product was crap. They can't get a G-League team, can't get a hockey tenant, and Union and RPI games are mostly empty. Albany claims to be a "baseball town," but they haven't got an affiliated team anymore. Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo all have Triple-A baseball. Syracuse, Rochester, and even Utica have AHL hockey.
It's America's Worst Sports Market™.
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