Minor Pro "Scorched Ice" Markets?

[JMCx4]

There's often talk among minor pro hockey fans about potential relocation or start-up locations for teams. In a midweek moment, I got to thinking about the hockey markets and/or hockey venues that I'm familiar with that have been spoiled as future successful homes for ice hockey. My Top 3 are:
1. Manchester, NH / SNHU Arena ... All you need to know for my ranking can be found in this notorious thread.
2. Elmira, NY / First Arena ... The blame game for this one always seems to feature the Chemung County IDA. The ECHL Jackals were probably the city's best semi-recent chance to nurture a long-term hockey presence, but the CCIDA members are constantly expecting such tenants to spend lots of money to maintain a crumbling facility. Then they eventually followed the Jackals departure by attracting two consecutive FPHL franchises, and naively expected huge crowds to generate hockey bags full of revenue. Unless/until a different arena management group takes over - maybe for a brand new arena - I see no hope for Elmira area hockey fans.
3. Danville, IL / David S. Palmer Arena ... Another example of local government-sponsored arena management driving hockey into the melting ice. The Danville Civic Center Authority has a running history of in-fighting & finger pointing, making hockey tenants (and probably other bill-paying entertainment entities) feel generally unwelcome. Not that the FHL's Barry Soskin wasn't a contributor to the ultimate decision to boot The Fed outta town & instead heap the city"s hopes on the SPHL (which was a disaster from the get-go). But it still looks to me like Danville sports fans won't be seeing pro hockey at Palmer until all of the CCA members kill one another in a Board meeting.

Feel free to rebut my choices & reasons, and add your own nominees.

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[CANADIENSFAN90]

Albany,ny every team that go in leaves also I thought Elmira has a team?

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Richmond, VA went all the way from AHL to SPHL due to the city not maintaining and then replacing the Richmond coliseum properly. Voters rejected replacement arena and echl franchise in 2020.

 

[GindyDraws]

I'd put Evansville on that list soon. The Ford Center was built to replace the old Civic Arena that was out in the sticks, but was expensive and the city hired a third party that expects tenants to pay high rental fees to justify their stay, which caused the Icemen to attempt a botched move to nearby Owensboro, Kentucky before going to Jacksonville. Meanwhile, the Thunderbolts in the SPHL have just flat out stunk their entire existence and been a source of several local controversies.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

There's often talk among minor pro hockey fans about potential relocation or start-up locations for teams. In a midweek moment, I got to thinking about the hockey markets and/or hockey venues that I'm familiar with that have been spoiled as future successful homes for ice hockey. My Top 3 are:
1. Manchester, NH / SNHU Arena ... All you need to know for my ranking can be found in this notorious thread.
2. Elmira, NY / First Arena ... The blame game for this one always seems to feature the Chemung County IDA. The ECHL Jackals were probably the city's best semi-recent chance to nurture a long-term hockey presence, but the CCIDA members are constantly expecting such tenants to spend lots of money to maintain a crumbling facility. Then they eventually followed the Jackals departure by attracting two consecutive FPHL franchises, and naively expected huge crowds to generate hockey bags full of revenue. Unless/until a different arena management group takes over - maybe for a brand new arena - I see no hope for Elmira area hockey fans.
3. Danville, IL / David S. Palmer Arena ... Another example of local government-sponsored arena management driving hockey into the melting ice. The Danville Civic Center Authority has a running history of in-fighting & finger pointing, making hockey tenants (and probably other bill-paying entertainment entities) feel generally unwelcome. Not that the FHL's Barry Soskin wasn't a contributor to the ultimate decision to boot The Fed outta town & instead heap the city"s hopes on the SPHL (which was a disaster from the get-go). But it still looks to me like Danville sports fans won't be seeing pro hockey at Palmer until all of the CCA members kill one another in a Board meeting.

Feel free to rebut my choices & reasons, and add your own nominees.

St. Charles, Missouri - The Family Arena will be torn down before there's another pro hockey tenant.

Imagine thinking that the Chill would "be around a long time" like un-noted St. Louis area "hockey writer" Randall Ritchey...

 

[JMCx4]

St. Charles, Missouri - The Family Arena will be torn down before there's another pro hockey tenant.

Imagine thinking that the Chill would "be around a long time" like un-noted St. Louis area "hockey writer" Randall Ritchey...

I saved that one JUST for you, Eddie.

And I'd add that Family Arena will crumble & collapse before the City of St. Charles wastes money on one piece of demolition equipment.

 

[JMCx4]

Adding another market in my home region ...
4. Bloomington, IL / Grossinger Motors Arena ... A sleepy little twin city in Central Illinois (alongside the college town of Normal, IL), with a generic municipal arena in its small downtown that the city fathers/mothers put occasional effort & money into for maintaining the facilities to host various events. The Bloomington Prairie Thunder played there in the last season of the UHL experiment, then became a founding member of the IHL Version-Whatever (getting seemingly passionate but not a huge volume of fan support), then a single season in the Central Hockey League before calling it quits. The expansion Blaze were the next hockey tenant in the CHL, lasting two years before folding. Bloomington was roped into the SPHL's northern invasion to give Peoria a bus route competitor, but that Thunder only lasted one season (IIRC under a cloud of arena management legal problems). Next came five years of an unremarkable USHL franchise placed in Bloomington by the SPHL Peoria Rivermen owner, with Thunder No. 3 rebranding to the Central IL Flying Aces before ops were shut down in 2019. The FPHL & Barry Soskin got the hopes up briefly of the very few hockey fans left in the area with promises of a franchise & a couple of League exhibition games in Jan. 2020, but that all died of apathy ... ETA: and COVID. Grossinger Motors Arena continues to have a working ice plant & hosts Disney on Ice shows, but otherwise I've heard nothing to indicate that the Bloomington/Normal community has enough pro (or junior) hockey interest left to make it a market that could rise from its many layers of ashes.

 

[JMCx4]

Albany,ny every team that go in leaves also I thought Elmira has a team?

Albany is a worthy add. As for Elmira, they do have a current FPHL tenant BUT the new breed of CCIDA members are already moaning about attendance after 2 months of hockey. This is the historical sign that a hockey team playing in First Arena will be evicted or just leave at the very next opportunity, even though the County should have been aware of fan support #s in The Fed (and typical seasonal trends in minor pro hockey attendance) before they co-signed a lease agreement with the River Sharks. Once they've driven out a third FPHL team, how much lower can that market go?

 

[NEPA Ice]

And don't look for Elmira to build another arena. Binghamton is just down the road for FPHL fans, along with plenty of other higher level hockey nearby, and some decent DIII college hockey.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Stockton went from being used as a proof of concept for the AHL’s pacific division with the Thunder to a market no one seems to want after being Calgary’s AHL Affiliate for 5+ years.

 

[CANADIENSFAN90]

I think some of these markets just need a break like Manchester or Evansville if you give them Time I think something like the fphl could in both markets the attendance standards is a lot lower

 

[JMCx4]

Stockton went from being used as a proof of concept for the AHL pacific division with the Thunder to a market no one seems to want after being Calgary’s AHL Affiliate for 5+ years.

The Calgary Flames are appropriately named, for all of the "Scorched Ice" they have left behind.

 

[Tilden Katz]

I think some of these markets just need a break like Manchester or Evansville if you give them Time I think something like the fphl could in both markets the attendance standards is a lot lower

 

[GindyDraws]

Albany is a worthy add. As for Elmira, they do have a current FPHL tenant BUT the new breed of CCIDA members are already moaning about attendance after 2 months of hockey. This is the historical sign that a hockey team playing in First Arena will be evicted or just leave at the very next opportunity, even though the County should have been aware of fan support #s in The Fed (and typical seasonal trends in minor pro hockey attendance) before they co-signed a lease agreement with the River Sharks. Once they've driven out a third FPHL team, how much lower can that market go?

LNAH

I think some of these markets just need a break like Manchester or Evansville if you give them Time I think something like the fphl could in both markets the attendance standards is a lot lower

They'll take a break. A permanent break. Anything besides the freaking FPHL.

 

[GindyDraws]

The Calgary Flames are appropriately named, for all of the "Scorched Ice" they have left behind.

Of all the markets, Omaha never went back to the minors.

 

[JMCx4]

Of all the markets, Omaha never went back to the minors.

With USHL & DI men's hockey there - plus a healthy youth hockey presence - that small market is saturated ... and I don't mean due to ice melt.

 

[I am Bettman]

Adding another market in my home region ...
4. Bloomington, IL / Grossinger Motors Arena ... A sleepy little twin city in Central Illinois (alongside the college town of Normal, IL), with a generic municipal arena in its small downtown that the city fathers/mothers put occasional effort & money into for maintaining the facilities to host various events. The Bloomington Prairie Thunder played there in the last season of the UHL experiment, then became a founding member of the IHL Version-Whatever (getting seemingly passionate but not a huge volume of fan support), then a single season in the Central Hockey League before calling it quits. The expansion Blaze were the next hockey tenant in the CHL, lasting two years before folding. Bloomington was roped into the SPHL's northern invasion to give Peoria a bus route competitor, but that Thunder only lasted one season (IIRC under a cloud of arena management legal problems). Next came five years of an unremarkable USHL franchise placed in Bloomington by the SPHL Peoria Rivermen owner, with Thunder No. 3 rebranding to the Central IL Flying Aces before ops were shut down in 2019. The FPHL & Barry Soskin got the hopes up briefly of the very few hockey fans left in the area with promises of a franchise & a couple of League exhibition games in Jan. 2020, but that all died of apathy ... ETA: and COVID. Grossinger Motors Arena continues to have a working ice plant & hosts Disney on Ice shows, but otherwise I've heard nothing to indicate that the Bloomington/Normal community has enough pro (or junior) hockey interest left to make it a market that could rise from its many layers of ashes.

Yeah it seems like the community simply doesn’t care about hockey that much. Illinois State’s acha team plays in Grossinger, but they hardly get more than 30-40 fans. Top notch facility, very unfortunate.

 

[GindyDraws]

Yeah it seems like the community simply doesn’t care about hockey that much. Illinois State’s acha team plays in Grossinger, but they hardly get more than 30-40 fans. Top notch facility, very unfortunate.

If only there was a Pop Weaver Junior Pavilion where you could get away with having 30-40 fans.

 

[sabremike]

The Calgary Flames are appropriately named, for all of the "Scorched Ice" they have left behind.

This metaphor also works for the Devils as well.

 

[Roadhog]

Of all the markets, Omaha never went back to the minors.

And Saint John, where the cross-continent adventure began.
The QMJHL moved in 2 years after they left.

 

[JMCx4]

My #5 (Group Nomination) ... Texas / Amarillo, Corpus Christi, El Paso, Ft. Worth, Hidalgo, Laredo, Lubbock, Odessa, San Angelo, San Antonio ... The Western Pro Hockey League built or resurrected several of these hockey markets in the late 1990s/early 2000s, followed by the League's consolidation with the early 21st century version of the Central Hockey League. A combination of the economy & the CHL's spotty business practices (putting it kindly) led to the demise of those teams. Some of the cities have since made NAHL junior hockey work (to varying degrees), while others have moved on without the game. There were rumors of the SPHL eyeing a couple of Texas markets before they moved northward, but nothing came of the fan chatter. Ft. Worth has the population to support a lower level pro hockey team, but the buzz about 10 years ago regarding the new Dickies Arena becoming a home ice faded & has seemingly passed away. So I can't see Texas ice hockey adding a significant chapter to its history.

 

[GindyDraws]

My #5 (Group Nomination) ... Texas / Amarillo, Corpus Christi, El Paso, Ft. Worth, Hidalgo, Laredo, Lubbock, Odessa, San Angelo, San Antonio ... The Western Pro Hockey League built or resurrected several of these hockey markets in the late 1990s/early 2000s, followed by the League's consolidation with the early 21st century version of the Central Hockey League. A combination of the economy & the CHL's spotty business practices (putting it kindly) led to the demise of those teams. Some of the cities have since made NAHL junior hockey work (to varying degrees), while others have moved on without the game. There were rumors of the SPHL eyeing a couple of Texas markets before they moved northward, but nothing came of the fan chatter. Ft. Worth has the population to support a lower level pro hockey team, but the buzz about 10 years ago regarding the new Dickies Arena becoming a home ice faded & has seemingly passed away. So I can't see Texas ice hockey adding a significant chapter to its history.

San Antonio is a weird entry; they had a CHL entry in the Iguanas, but as we all know, it's essentially either a Spurs-owned venture or nothing in that town (and if they could, they'd buy the Missions), so the Spurs bought an AHL team and ran the Iguanas out of business. They also did the same thing with the NASL San Antonio Scorpions by purchasing Toyota Field and taking over the operations with creating their own club in USL with San Antonio SC. It's when those ventures stop making money that they get rid of them, like when they shipped out the WNBA San Antonio Silver Stars to Las Vegas, or when they sold the San Antonio Rampage (the AHL team) to the Vegas Golden Knights. And you could, in theory, try running out of Freeman Coliseum if you'd like, except why would you?

 

[JMCx4]

So you're saying Peter & Julianna Holt's children-of-divorce currently hold the blow torch in San Antonio. Good addition to this thread, thanks.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Glad to see Norfolk not on this list after the AHL to echl move.

 

[JMCx4]

Glad to see Norfolk not on this list after the AHL to echl move.

If there's still ice to skate on, they wait their turn.