Minor hockey tryouts (was: How to motivate a novice (or any) player for tryouts?)

[Yukon Joe]

If this is the process in your area, would think that AA coach would have the sense to leave a few spots open for the AAA cuts. I get it, they may not get any to come down, but then you can try to bring someone back.

All I can say is they don't do this. Now part of it is because once you cut a kid they can go try out for another club, so the kids you want may not want to come back. But my kid lived through it last year - he was never in the running for AAA, was quickly assigned to the AA team, but there was a steady drip of players who having been cut from AAA would show up at AA, so then AA had to keep making cuts as their roster would fluctuate up and down.

But It's impossible to design a perfect system - everything is going to have trade-offs. You can do tryouts in the spring - but then you're missing out on any improvement kids can make over spring/summer, plus you're forcing kids to commit extra early. You can separate out AAA, then AA, then other tryouts - but that just extends the process when everyone just wants to start playing hockey.

 

[patnyrnyg]

All I can say is they don't do this. Now part of it is because once you cut a kid they can go try out for another club, so the kids you want may not want to come back. But my kid lived through it last year - he was never in the running for AAA, was quickly assigned to the AA team, but there was a steady drip of players who having been cut from AAA would show up at AA, so then AA had to keep making cuts as their roster would fluctuate up and down.

But It's impossible to design a perfect system - everything is going to have trade-offs. You can do tryouts in the spring - but then you're missing out on any improvement kids can make over spring/summer, plus you're forcing kids to commit extra early. You can separate out AAA, then AA, then other tryouts - but that just extends the process when everyone just wants to start playing hockey.

If they are going to wait until the fall, shorten the process. AAA in first 2 weeks of sept, AA in 2nd two weeks,

 

[Yukon Joe]

If they are going to wait until the fall, shorten the process. AAA in first 2 weeks of sept, AA in 2nd two weeks,

I guess the knock there is that you're now trying to evaluate kids based on just a handful of appearances. I mean this is still just minor hockey - nobody is going to be at the ice 7 days per week, any kid can have an off day or two.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I guess the knock there is that you're now trying to evaluate kids based on just a handful of appearances. I mean this is still just minor hockey - nobody is going to be at the ice 7 days per week, any kid can have an off day or two.

Just seems a bit excessive. Here tier 1 is 3 days and tier 2 is 2 weeks later for 3 days. Plus, can make changes to your roster until 12/31 each year, at least tier 2 you can. In most cases, the coaches already know many of the players trying out. They are really there to look at any new kids.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Just seems a bit excessive. Here tier 1 is 3 days and tier 2 is 2 weeks later for 3 days. Plus, can make changes to your roster until 12/31 each year, at least tier 2 you can. In most cases, the coaches already know many of the players trying out. They are really there to look at any new kids.

But see that kind of attitude (which certainly exists here too) kind of bugs me. You can get kids slotted into certain expectations early on and then they can kind of coast for years - it can be hard to see the kid who might be a late bloomer. It also means you can be judging kids based on what parents or siblings have done, not on the kid's own merit.

But I hear ya - I don't know that the AAA evaluations needed to necessarily go on for an entire month from first skate to last cut.

 

[oldunclehue]

But see that kind of attitude (which certainly exists here too) kind of bugs me. You can get kids slotted into certain expectations early on and then they can kind of coast for years - it can be hard to see the kid who might be a late bloomer. It also means you can be judging kids based on what parents or siblings have done, not on the kid's own merit.

But I hear ya - I don't know that the AAA evaluations needed to necessarily go on for an entire month from first skate to last cut.

Ya that seems really ridiculous, things are getting that way in my Province, a friend of mine has a kid in u13AA tryouts, which are going on to week 3....three weeks to pick a U13AA team...like what are we doing?

Our AAA tryouts usually start early September and then the next level (which is A hockey as no AA program) starts first week in October. So if the AAA team has a month to figure it out but usually takes 2 weeks.

I can't imagine why a program would need 3 weeks at u13AA to pick a team, but thats a lot of pressure to put on kids like your kid had to go through. Weeks on end of being a potential cut keeps everyone on edge.

Update: Our u15AAA team which my son was cut from and has tonnes of politics around played two exhibition games over the weekend against a double A (AA) team. And got throttled each game 12-2 and 10-3. Going to be a long year if an AA team beat them. Wish the kids the best but also I'm happy where my kid has ended up as I think an entire year of struggles will be tough on the kids mentally. Just hope they can find some positives.

 

[patnyrnyg]

But see that kind of attitude (which certainly exists here too) kind of bugs me. You can get kids slotted into certain expectations early on and then they can kind of coast for years - it can be hard to see the kid who might be a late bloomer. It also means you can be judging kids based on what parents or siblings have done, not on the kid's own merit.

But I hear ya - I don't know that the AAA evaluations needed to necessarily go on for an entire month from first skate to last cut.

Not necessarily. As I said, it is completely different here in that in tier 2, the organizations often have multiple teams at 12U and below. So, if you tryout, you are most likely making a team unless you just can't skate. For some, it becomes a matter of WHICH team. One org in our league has SIX 12U teams, and we only have 5 divisions. I know of another that has 5 and at least 1 more with 4.

Secondly, no kid is making a higher team because their older brother is a stud at a higher age level. On my team, we have 3 2nd year PW's. One is in travel for the first time. The other 2 were both on the A team as 2nd year squirts, and are now on the B team. Last year, my team was 10U, one of ours on the squirt B team is now on PW A as a first year PW.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Not necessarily. As I said, it is completely different here in that in tier 2, the organizations often have multiple teams at 12U and below. So, if you tryout, you are most likely making a team unless you just can't skate. For some, it becomes a matter of WHICH team. One org in our league has SIX 12U teams, and we only have 5 divisions. I know of another that has 5 and at least 1 more with 4.

Secondly, no kid is making a higher team because their older brother is a stud at a higher age level. On my team, we have 3 2nd year PW's. One is in travel for the first time. The other 2 were both on the A team as 2nd year squirts, and are now on the B team. Last year, my team was 10U, one of ours on the squirt B team is now on PW A as a first year PW.

So... at least at the ages of my kids, everyone is making a team. Nobody is going home unable to play hockey. My concern though was in making a team of the right level for their development - it's a huge difference between playing on U15AAA with paid coaches and 5-6 ice times per week, and playing community Tier 3 with a dad coach and 1-2 ice times per week.

And as for older brothers / dads - I feel like it's a "tie goes to the runner" kind of situation. I've seen younger brothers, or kids with "famous" last names, go further then I think they should have, or be bubble players that make it in the end. There's nothing outrageous - I don't care if a kid's last name is Gretzky if they can barely skate they're not making a AAA team, but if two kids are otherwise pretty close sometimes a family connection can be the difference.

 

[MarotteMarauder]

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[Yukon Joe]

I guess this is a try-out (of sorts...)

So my kid gets called up to be an affiliate for a high level team. The high level team has two games this past weekend. At first my kid wonders if he'll get asked to play both - but no. He gets the first game, a team-mate of his gets the second.

So my kid apparently plays well (I wasn't there). He does register a point despite no special teams time. He's happy with how he played in any event.

Second game - apparently the affiliate gets a 10 minute game misconduct half way through the second period. Coaches tell him to immediately get dressed and get out of the locker room before the game is over (this is third hand info at best to be fair). Yikes - that is definitely not what you want to do as an affiliate. Again - I wasn't there, can't speak to whether the penalty was warranted or not, or how bad it was, etc.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So my middle son is trying out for a spring team. I've kind of soured on spring hockey, but his older brother played for this team so he wants to as well.

I've been to the tryouts (heck I helped man the bench). My son plays Tier 2, but I thought he more than held his own against even AA players.

But I had the owner of the team (although apparently not the person selecting it) ask "so why did he tier so low"?

That's going to decide it, isn't it. Short of being an absolute superstar out there, they're going to take a AA or Tier 1 player over him, because that's the "safer" way to go.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

So my middle son is trying out for a spring team. I've kind of soured on spring hockey, but his older brother played for this team so he wants to as well.

I've been to the tryouts (heck I helped man the bench). My son plays Tier 2, but I thought he more than held his own against even AA players.

But I had the owner of the team (although apparently not the person selecting it) ask "so why did he tier so low"?

That's going to decide it, isn't it. Short of being an absolute superstar out there, they're going to take a AA or Tier 1 player over him, because that's the "safer" way to go.

This is my son’s 3rd year in minor hockey, and it’s one of the nuttiest subcultures going. I’ve come to realize there’s a lot more to making a team than just raw talent. Here are some variables:

Experience - I find a kid who’s played longer sometimes knows their role on the ice better. Plus if you’ve spent the majority of your young life at higher levels, you’ve probably spent more time playing the game the “right way”.

Attitude/Maturity - Some kids just want to score goals and be the hero at lower levels, while other kids are okay with the kind of hive-mind unselfishness that leads to better outcomes against better competition.

Politics - There’s an extremely talented defenceman on my son’s team that played a tier above last year. I’ve been trying to figure out why he’s now with us. Then I found out through the gossip mill that he got kicked down a level because nobody could stand his dad. Seems really unfair to the kid but….

There are 15 skaters and 2 goalies on my son’s team. About 4 of those kids wouldn’t look out of place on the tier above, but there won’t be that many spots available next season. So most likely 3 of those 4 kids will have to play with the other 11 kids again, whose talent level will not improve their overall game one bit. In order to determine which kids don’t get the spot, they’ll have to do a lot of nitpicking.

This is a long-winded way of saying “them’s the breaks”.

 

[Slats432]

This is my son’s 3rd year in minor hockey, and it’s one of the nuttiest subcultures going. I’ve come to realize there’s a lot more to making a team than just raw talent. Here are some variables:

Experience - I find a kid who’s played longer sometimes knows their role on the ice better. Plus if you’ve spent the majority of your young life at higher levels, you’ve probably spent more time playing the game the “right way”.

Attitude/Maturity - Some kids just want to score goals and be the hero at lower levels, while other kids are okay with the kind of hive-mind unselfishness that leads to better outcomes against better competition.

Politics - There’s an extremely talented defenceman on my son’s team that played a tier above last year. I’ve been trying to figure out why he’s now with us. Then I found out through the gossip mill that he got kicked down a level because nobody could stand his dad. Seems really unfair to the kid but….

There are 15 skaters and 2 goalies on my son’s team. About 4 of those kids wouldn’t look out of place on the tier above, but there won’t be that many spots available next season. So most likely 3 of those 4 kids will have to play with the other 11 kids again, whose talent level will not improve their overall game one bit. In order to determine which kids don’t get the spot, they’ll have to do a lot of nitpicking.

This is a long-winded way of saying “them’s the breaks”.

It is pretty normal to say a player that has played at the elite level would have to be supplanted by a player that has never played at an elite level.

Very rarely will I look back after a season and say I made the wrong call on who I released. It has happened, but good coaches take the evaluation process seriously.

I wouldn't call it politics to cut the crazy parent kid. All coaches evaluate the family unit as well, and our goal is to eliminate problems. Parent/player chemistry is a factor in all teams.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is my son’s 3rd year in minor hockey, and it’s one of the nuttiest subcultures going. I’ve come to realize there’s a lot more to making a team than just raw talent. Here are some variables:

Experience - I find a kid who’s played longer sometimes knows their role on the ice better. Plus if you’ve spent the majority of your young life at higher levels, you’ve probably spent more time playing the game the “right way”.

Attitude/Maturity - Some kids just want to score goals and be the hero at lower levels, while other kids are okay with the kind of hive-mind unselfishness that leads to better outcomes against better competition.

Politics - There’s an extremely talented defenceman on my son’s team that played a tier above last year. I’ve been trying to figure out why he’s now with us. Then I found out through the gossip mill that he got kicked down a level because nobody could stand his dad. Seems really unfair to the kid but….

There are 15 skaters and 2 goalies on my son’s team. About 4 of those kids wouldn’t look out of place on the tier above, but there won’t be that many spots available next season. So most likely 3 of those 4 kids will have to play with the other 11 kids again, whose talent level will not improve their overall game one bit. In order to determine which kids don’t get the spot, they’ll have to do a lot of nitpicking.

This is a long-winded way of saying “them’s the breaks”.

We have gotten to know one of the co-owners of the rink that also runs the AA org my daughter has played for the last two years.

Aside from my daughter, the rest of the kids are boys… 13 year old boys… and some of them are straight up little assholes and it’s easy to tell a couple of them won’t be back next season based on their douche bag level being a 10.

However, the guy we know who is head of the org told us in confidence he has decided to cut 2 kids based purely on their parents.

They are nice kids, as far as 13 yr old boys go.

His words to us were “many times I cut parents, not kids.”

 

[Yukon Joe]

It is pretty normal to say a player that has played at the elite level would have to be supplanted by a player that has never played at an elite level.

Very rarely will I look back after a season and say I made the wrong call on who I released. It has happened, but good coaches take the evaluation process seriously.

So first of all it's spring hockey - so while I'm not going to badmouth this coach (or any spring hockey coach) I don't know they take it as seriously as winter hockey. Probably with understandable reasons.

It's one thing to make the "wrong call" - but another to go "you know, with hindsight, this other player was 5-10% better and would have been the slightly better call". I also suspect that when you think about the "wrong call" kids it was probably a matter of character, not skill.

But it is a little frustrating as a dad, to have a kid who was kind of an ambivalent player just a couple years ago, and his play reflected it. But in the last year or so he's gotten older. He's grown a ton (he's now the tallest on his team), he's dedicated himself to his hockey like he never has before, and has improved in leaps and bounds - only to get dismissed in tryouts as "just a Tier 2-3 kid".

But I'm just whining on an anonymous message board. I definitely agree with @Minnesota Knudsens saying "them's the breaks".

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

It is pretty normal to say a player that has played at the elite level would have to be supplanted by a player that has never played at an elite level.

Very rarely will I look back after a season and say I made the wrong call on who I released. It has happened, but good coaches take the evaluation process seriously.

I wouldn't call it politics to cut the crazy parent kid. All coaches evaluate the family unit as well, and our goal is to eliminate problems. Parent/player chemistry is a factor in all teams.

Yeah I guess I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how difficult it is to move up one level (not necessarily several levels because that’s unrealistic).

My son has a lot of raw talent and is filling the net this year, but I’m not sure about his maturity level. I’m trying to get him to work on puck distribution and he’s the kind of athletic kid that if he tries something, he picks it up very quickly. It’s just a matter of whether or not he can put the team before his need to be the hero.

And then I’ve been thinking a lot about my role as a parent. I’m a bit of an introvert and I don’t want that to be an issue when dealing with other parents/coaches.

The funny thing is that in the end it could all be a moot point. There might be one forward spot available on the next rep level and there’s a lot of good competition.

 

[Minnesota Knudsens]

We have gotten to know one of the co-owners of the rink that also runs the AA org my daughter has played for the last two years.

Aside from my daughter, the rest of the kids are boys… 13 year old boys… and some of them are straight up little assholes and it’s easy to tell a couple of them won’t be back next season based on their douche bag level being a 10.

However, the guy we know who is head of the org told us in confidence he has decided to cut 2 kids based purely on their parents.

They are nice kids, as far as 13 yr old boys go.

His words to us were “many times I cut parents, not kids.”

That’s awful for those kids. I also start to wonder where they draw the line in terms of how obnoxious the parents are. Like, I can imagine some really horror show parents. But if they’re cutting kids because the parents are just no fun hanging out by the hotel pool, I’d find that a bit much.