Saga of the Elk
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Minnesota Wild General Discussion 2024-25
- Thread starter TaLoN
- Start date
Waiver Draft
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- Jun 27, 2024
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Wild’s first female development camp coach hopes to be a trailblazer
Claire Jenkins Coffman is getting her start as a guest coach at the team’s gathering of prospects before heading to work with an NAHL team.
www.startribune.com
Minnesota Wild Re-Signs Forward Sammy Walker to a One-Year, Two-Way Contract | Minnesota Wild
SAINT PAUL, Minn. – Minnesota Wild President of Hockey Operations and General Manager Bill Guerin today announced the National Hockey League (NHL) club has signed forward Sammy Walker to a one-year, two-way contract ($775,000/$125,000) for the 2024-25 season.
www.nhl.com
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Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
In reading Russo it sounds like they are going to start with the Kap-Ek-Boldy line. I guess I understand why, but I think that Rossi also plays a pretty north/south game, battles in front of the net, and is a better possession player on the boards than Ek.
I think Ek can be more impactful as a player in a role where he can play with non top 6 players and outscore opposing teams top lines when his line is on the ice. It seems like the best path to winning more ice time is if Ek can repeat that production with Foligno and Trenin.
I also don’t want Rossi playing with a player like Zucc. I think Rossi is a connector and needs to play with players who can finish and go into high danger areas. I think the Wild need Rossi to develop into a 60+ point per game player and they should prioritize that development.
If he does, I think the linemate cannot be Johansson. I think it needs to be someone like Ohgren (or Hartman) who have great shots and can skate well. I also really think they need to try to develop Ohgren and Khusnitsdov into roles that aren’t 4th line energy roles. I think their skating plus some of the skill potential is important for this team. Ohgren’s speed and his shot could be major assets for him as a finisher — he’s not quite this fast but he’s Jason Zucker esque.
I also think you need to try to create a role where Trenin has a chance to produce offensively. He definitely has some of the skill and hands to be a 20-25 goal scorer if he plays with some skill and can get some offensive zone usage. I think there’s a chance he can be Foligno 2.0. This would make the contract well worth it.
Over the last few seasons, Trenin ranks 91st among forwards in high danger scoring chances created despite being 226th in minutes, getting a sub 40% offensive zone starting usage, and playing with bottom 6 players.
If the top line is
Kaprizov - Ek - Boldy
I would go
Ohgren - Hartman - Zucc
Johansson - Rossi - Trenin
Foligno - Khusnitsdov - Gaudreau
If that top line isn’t together I would go:
Kap - Rossi - Boldy
Foligno - Ek - Trenin
Ohgren - Hartman - Zucc
Johansson - Khusnitsdov - Gaudreau
I think Ek can be more impactful as a player in a role where he can play with non top 6 players and outscore opposing teams top lines when his line is on the ice. It seems like the best path to winning more ice time is if Ek can repeat that production with Foligno and Trenin.
I also don’t want Rossi playing with a player like Zucc. I think Rossi is a connector and needs to play with players who can finish and go into high danger areas. I think the Wild need Rossi to develop into a 60+ point per game player and they should prioritize that development.
If he does, I think the linemate cannot be Johansson. I think it needs to be someone like Ohgren (or Hartman) who have great shots and can skate well. I also really think they need to try to develop Ohgren and Khusnitsdov into roles that aren’t 4th line energy roles. I think their skating plus some of the skill potential is important for this team. Ohgren’s speed and his shot could be major assets for him as a finisher — he’s not quite this fast but he’s Jason Zucker esque.
I also think you need to try to create a role where Trenin has a chance to produce offensively. He definitely has some of the skill and hands to be a 20-25 goal scorer if he plays with some skill and can get some offensive zone usage. I think there’s a chance he can be Foligno 2.0. This would make the contract well worth it.
Over the last few seasons, Trenin ranks 91st among forwards in high danger scoring chances created despite being 226th in minutes, getting a sub 40% offensive zone starting usage, and playing with bottom 6 players.
If the top line is
Kaprizov - Ek - Boldy
I would go
Ohgren - Hartman - Zucc
Johansson - Rossi - Trenin
Foligno - Khusnitsdov - Gaudreau
If that top line isn’t together I would go:
Kap - Rossi - Boldy
Foligno - Ek - Trenin
Ohgren - Hartman - Zucc
Johansson - Khusnitsdov - Gaudreau
Somewhere in there is a playoff team, we are paying elite salaries to our bottom 6, if they can perform it might not be terrible. 1 stud line and 3 third lines? Unless we get some surprises and can find a quality 2nd line.
I don't understand how anyone can pull JEE off the 1st line after the season he had. It's not like we had a great #2C to replace him. We had Hartman and Rossi. We know what hartman is, and Rossi has yet to prove that he is even a #2C on a normal team,nvm a 1C.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I get where he's coming from. It's not that Ek deserves to be dropped down the lineup, it's more that Rossi and Hartman are capable of filling those roles to a certain degree, especially if they're getting carried a little bit by better wingers, and that allows us to have a second or third line that's capable of contributing when the Kaprizov line isn't on the ice.
Kinda the same logic to suggesting that you play Faber and Buium (when he's established down the line) on separate pairs because then you have one of them on the ice for 45 minutes per game instead of having two of them on ice for 25 minutes and none of them on the ice for 35 minutes.
You create a situation where Ek can match up well against a MacKinnon line so Kaprizov can play against lesser opponents without having to worry about defense as much. Then you know you have two lines that can outplay the other team instead of just one.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Ek and Rossi had basically the same 5v5 production last year. His separation was defense and power play, neither of which requires him to play on the top line.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I would personally try something like this
Kaprizov-Rossi-Hartman
Ohgren-Ek-Boldy
Trenin-Gaudreau-Foligno
Zuccarello-Khusnutdinov-Lauko
Johansson
I don't need all of Rossi, Hartman and Ek down the middle, surprisingly, we actually don't have the quality of wingers to complement our center depth. Moving Hartman to top six wing helps with that. Ohgren showing he can play in that 2LW spot also goes a long way.
Kaprizov-Rossi-Hartman
Ohgren-Ek-Boldy
Trenin-Gaudreau-Foligno
Zuccarello-Khusnutdinov-Lauko
Johansson
I don't need all of Rossi, Hartman and Ek down the middle, surprisingly, we actually don't have the quality of wingers to complement our center depth. Moving Hartman to top six wing helps with that. Ohgren showing he can play in that 2LW spot also goes a long way.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I'm fine with saddling Kaprizov with Zucc to start. If Zucc's better and it works, great. If he's not and it doesn't, then we can scrap it and never look the f*** back.
Kaprizov - Eriksson Ek - Zucc
Boldy - Rossi - Hartman
Johansson - Trenin - Ohgren
Foligno - Khusnuts - Gaudreau/Lauko
If Trenin isn't a center, move him, Khus and Gaudreau around.
Kaprizov - Eriksson Ek - Zucc
Boldy - Rossi - Hartman
Johansson - Trenin - Ohgren
Foligno - Khusnuts - Gaudreau/Lauko
If Trenin isn't a center, move him, Khus and Gaudreau around.
I like this lineup. The middle 6 looks balanced for a change. And that 4th line has the potential to be a weapon. I hate Zucc & Kap together 5v5 but maybe having Ek will alleviate some of the pond hockey tendencies and help them play a more north - south game. I’ll co-sign this
The lineup isn't a list of the FWDs ranked 1-12 (1-4 if you want to do position instead) and that is where they end up.
It's one of the logic puzzles trying to make this roster have multiple (on paper) quality lines.
BagHead
Registered User
That is a lot of quality lines. And the angles are just right.The lineup isn't a list of the FWDs ranked 1-12 (1-4 if you want to do position instead) and that is where they end up.
It's one of the logic puzzles trying to make this roster have multiple (on paper) quality lines.
Well gotta get the (on paper) lines right or everything goes sideways before we even start.
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
I tried to take a new angle and approach from the ways we normally talk about lines here. This does get to the point at the end, but I would want to try to drive home how good that GREEF line was in terms of impact.
If the Wild can create a line without Kaprizov, Boldy, and Rossi that can outplay opposing teams top lines when they are on the ice, this is the best path forward for them to have multiple elite lines and win games. I think lines such as the GREEF line are really underrated because they directly produce against the opposing teams best lines. And free up your own teams best line to not have to defend the opposing teams best players. This type of line winning means the other teams best lines producing below their normal rate.
This is what the GREEF line would do. They led the league in goal differential 1 year and were top 7 the next year. On top of this, they were the best shutdown line in the league with some of the hardest matchup difficulty meaning that their 70-80% goal differential came directly against the opposing teams best lines.
We talk about individual players in hockey and how good they are and we talk about great offensive lines that score a lot. I wonder if we undersell how insanely valuable that is to have a line produce at that level against opposing teams best players with your own bottom 6 players on the wings. To me, there are very few players in the NHL that can do that and Ek is one of them.
It also is really Ek as the driver of this as well (and a healthy Foligno). Ek, Foligno, and GREEF consistently scored 3.6-3.9 goals per 60 against top lines. This is a top 20-30 rate in the league. Further, even without Greenway and with Maroon last year and a healthy Foligno (albeit in a small amount of time) scored 3.8 goals and gave up just 1.95 goals (67 GF%) which is very similar to the GREEF numbers.
Ek's superpower is not his offensive skill. His superpower is being able to shutdown opposing teams best lines, set the tone with physicality and possession in the offensive zone and chip in offense from dirty areas and do that without playing with skill players. He had a multiple year stretch of doing this and they ultimately were arguably a top 10 or better line in terms of impact in the league during that stretch.
I think that Ek is a good 3rd man offensively on a 1st line. It's great to see that he can play with skill on the first line and make an impact. I think in that role, you don't want him playing against teams best lines as often and he won't be as much of a defensive engine. Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy did score at an elite rate together (4.64 goals per 60), but did give up a lot of goals too (2.88 per 60) leading to a GF% of 61%. Of lines that played 200+ minutes that ranks 4th in the NHL and of the lines that played 300+ minutes that ranks 2nd. This is great, but they were bottom 20-25% of those lines in goals given up.
It could be true that some of this was goal-tending and the Wild's poorer defense than normal standards. This is also a magnitude step above 1.8 and .7 goals per 60 of the GREEF line. Even further, Ek, Foligno, and Maroon averaged under 2 goals per 60 last year.
I think in terms of marginal value added... while he may be the best point producer in that spot... I think that Rossi and even Hartman could produce similarly at even strength.
I think that lines like the GREEF line are stylistically different from what we think of as one of the best lines in hockey, but a line that can play like that is an elite line and more impactful to winning than many lines that have big time skill players putting up big offensive numbers. I also think that when you think about the Foligno & Trenin contracts and if they are able to create an elite line who can shutdown and out score other teams best lines those contracts become much more palatable – especially if Trenin can become a staple for the next few years like Foligno has been. I actually am not sure if signing Trenin makes sense unless this is the plan.
The important thing is that from a gameplan process standpoint, this immediately puts you in an advantageous situation. You are immediately building yourself margin for error. I think this also gives you a ton of choices and flexibility with the rest of your lineup. We have established that the Kap-Ek-Boldy line wasn’t very good defensively – although the Wild’s lack of defensive structure and goal tending compared to previous years come into play. To me, this means it’s not actually true to say that Ek was able to allow Kaprizov/Boldy to play aggressive and open offensive hockey and protect them on the defensive side of things.
I am fine with Kaprizov’s line being a line that scores a lot and also gives up some goals. I think there is a pretty strong chance that Kaprizov - Rossi - Boldly can produce at a similar level to Ek in that position. I think seeing Kap & Zuc chemistry fall off it’s not often that a line continues to produce at that insane scoring output level – although I do think Kap, Boldly, and a strong 3rd player can be a line that’s consistently elite. I also think it’s more important to the Wild’s future for Rossi to develop as an offensive center and at least a strong facilitator/connector/multipilier type player on top lines.
I think now all of a sudden you have potentially two lines that are capable of being top 10-20 impact lines in the league. I think you have a situation were you are in a position to make the most of your investment into Rossi and continue to develop Boldy into a PPG player. I think these are all important things for a Wild team that does not have a lot of high end young offensive talent. I also think that if you have two elite lines you can see an actual strategy, vision, and process that can win and be replicated.
Playing your best defensive center in a non-defensive role, paying bottom 6 players to large/long-term contracts to have them play in energy and PK roles doesn’t make a lot of sense. Hamstringing Rossi to players like Foligno & other 3rd line players doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Having a process where you can (1) win your minutes against the opposing teams best line (2) create high-end offense and skill that can be the best offensive line against any team on any given night (3) develop bottom 6 lines that can create secondary scoring and skate well to set the tone in their minutes. This makes sense.
Hartman - Zucc and a third player that you can try to test your way into can be a productive line and doesn’t have to be incredible. I think trying Johansson, but then also trying the young players here is a great way to give them some skill to play with. And if you’re rolling out Gaudreau, Ohgren, and Khusnitsdov on the 4th line… that’s a lot of speed and skating ability that’s going to really shut down time and space given expectations. The last two things I will say are that I think you have other options to try to get Kap going with Hartman and Zucc and put Rossi-Boldy with another winger. You have options of being more balanced if you want as well.
And most importantly, even if it is true that Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy is your best offensive line by a mile because of whatever chemistry they have. I think that you can pour the pressure on with loading them up for shifts or stretches throughout games and down the stretch of games. McDavid played about 60-65% of his minutes without Draisaitll 5 on 5. There’s no reason you can’t do things that.
If you are using Kap-Ek-Boldy more strategically and they are playing together on the PP… I think you will still probably can get 8-12 minutes of them together a game.
Line data: NHL Lines Advanced Stats
Foligno-Eriksson Ek-Trenin
The FEET line.
The FEET line.
JEE is going to get his 20 minutes a game no matter what line he is on, Kap and Boldy are the same. There will be lots of overlap no matter what, and lines are generally fluid, one of the benefits of retaining a bunch of guys is that there is already familiarity among many of them.
Whatever line JEE is on, it does well, and I expect that to continue, a good coach will try and get Kap into good matchups, Hynes last year showed a willingness to double shift him and Boldy when they were hot so I’m not too worried about it.
The thing that matter is finding those contributing depth players, as you mentioned, that GREEF level of impact from the depth is very important to our success, I am hoping that Trenin can be an impactful player in that kind of role. Leaves us with the opportunity to have two lines that inevitably get the lower opponent matchups and that is where we need people to step up big time.
- Nov 7, 2017
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Kaprizov runs the show, if he wants to play with Zuccarello...so be it. Who should play in the middle? I'd say Hartman, for two reasons. That line had success in the past, and Ek should play on the 2nd line to make that line better.
Rossi, I'm not sold on him, 3rd line for now. Johansson, he stays in the lineup, was Sweden's best player at the Worlds, have to give him a chance but I'll start him on the 4th line. Johansson and Gaudreau together sounds like a disaster, but they should get the message and play better. Next stop will be the press box where Lauko is waiting to play.
Not much room for the prospects yet, but that's obviously Guerin's plan.
Kaprizov - Hartman - Zuccarello
Trenin - Eriksson Ek - Boldy
Ohgren - Rossi - Foligno
Johansson - Khusnutdinov - Gaudreau
Lauko
Rossi, I'm not sold on him, 3rd line for now. Johansson, he stays in the lineup, was Sweden's best player at the Worlds, have to give him a chance but I'll start him on the 4th line. Johansson and Gaudreau together sounds like a disaster, but they should get the message and play better. Next stop will be the press box where Lauko is waiting to play.
Not much room for the prospects yet, but that's obviously Guerin's plan.
Kaprizov - Hartman - Zuccarello
Trenin - Eriksson Ek - Boldy
Ohgren - Rossi - Foligno
Johansson - Khusnutdinov - Gaudreau
Lauko
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
He had essentially the same 5v5 production as Zuccarello did, while playing with Kaprizov less than Zuccarello did... as rookie.
That said, I wouldn't flip out if those were the lines, but I'd swap Trenin and Johansson to start.
5v5 Kap, Rossi, Zucc together.
Rossi+Kap 2.63 gf/60 (137 mins)
Zucc+Kap 3.81 gf/60 (189 mins)
Zucc+Rossi+Kap 3.63 gf/60 (314 mins)
I can say Rossi (or Zucc) last year had essentially the same 5v5 production with Kap that Steel did the year prior or Rask did a couple years before that. I'm not sure that as a rookie carries any more weight than out of the pressbox like Steel or Rask did.
Playing with Kap bloats almost everyone's stats that they almost become irrelevant. It's like looking at the stats for the players (RNH or Hyman for example) when they are on a line with McDavid in EDM. Take McDavid away and across the board they drop 1.5 gf/60 or more,
It's what the stats look like without Kap that I find more meaningful.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
- Mar 19, 2023
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Zuke is really old and declining fast, can't catch up with the game's speed anymore. Next season he will be 51 yo, and should only play sheltered minutes on the 4th line and some PP time. He scored only 12 goals last season despite playing with Minnesota's all time best player. Not good enough.
Freddy G on the other hand, is due for a bounce back year, scoring only 5 goals last year.
So there's a chance he might outscore Zuke next year.
Freddy G on the other hand, is due for a bounce back year, scoring only 5 goals last year.
So there's a chance he might outscore Zuke next year.
- Dec 10, 2012
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If things don't go gangbusters from the start, and we have to watch another season like last year, I would much rather limp through the season with guys like Rossi and Ohgren getting those top six/PP1 minutes than guys like Foligno, Trenin, Zuccarello or Johansson. Prioritize the future, not the past.
Boldy needs a skilled player to get out in transition with. This 2nd line would be a bad fit.
Also I guarantee Kap would rather play with Boldy. He’s due for a new contract soon and his scoring with Boldy is significantly higher. The Zucc bias is nauseating, cmon dude.
DANOZ28
Registered User
i'd like to see boldy / jee / ohgren. we're not making the playoffs this year anyway. let them build chemistry for next season.
We need to make the playoffs this year and next year. NEED to if we want Kaprizov to stick around.
