Confirmed Trade: [MIN/VGK] Alex Tuch to Vegas for a Cond. 3rd and selecting Erik Haula

[TaLoN]

 

[Sota Popinski]

Let's say Dumba got traded to the Leafs (one of the few teams with extra protection slots on defense), it would've been something like a Kapanen + 1st + 3rd. Suter and Parise are both 33 this season, by the time that 1st is ready they'd be ~35. Scandella would get something around a 1st + B prospect + pick, again would be 2+ years before they're ready to possibly join the NHL.

The Wild do have a window unless the league is willing to turn a blind eye to 15 mil in cap circumvention (in the future). Maybe one, but both would be pushing it. Either way, it's a gamble. The risk of losing three core assets and banking on everything else to perfectly align is higher than simply losing Scandella/Dumba.

Edit: Also, Staal's value is at least Haula + Tuch to the Wild, they received the same value as if they forced Minnesota to trade both their defensemen.

You do realize they could have just used the assets they acquired from those trades to get new players, right? The Wild didn't have to keep those picks and prospects. They could have trade Brodin or Dumba and Scandella and then just used the picks they got from those deals to trade for another defenseman tomorrow.

 

[PAZ]

Actually on Friday the word was both Brodin and Scandella were close to being traded. Dumba didn't appear to be one the Wild were going to let go in either manner, and that's because our two young D ready to step in are both LHD.

Olofsson and Reilly would step in as #4 and #6 D-men, Dumba would stay as the #3, and we still have Folin as well for RHD.

Would have been a defense of...

Suter-Spurgeon
Oloffson-Dumba
Reilly-Folin
Prosser

That would be doable... and the Wild would then also have cap space to maybe add in free agency.... PLUS whatever assets Brodin and Scandella would have returned. It wouldn't have been a horrible situation.

Also, yes - Staal's value to the Wild is higher... but we're talking about Staal's value to Vegas here. Haula + Tuch are far more valuable to THEM. The Wild could have shopped for another center with the freed up cap space had Vegas taken Staal.

A young proven 3rd line center who still has offensive upside and can play up the lineup and is great at faceoffs, and a top 6 RW blue-chip prospect!

You basically just stated how McPhee screwed up. Worst case scenario is they select Staal and trade him back to Minnesota for Tuch + Haula. Basically what i'm getting at is Vegas had way more leverage to get a better prospect, a draft to allow Wild to keep their roster together. I don't think Fletcher would've blinked if McPhee asked for a 1st along with Haula + Tuch (which I still think is low)

That defense isn't bad, I agree. But Minnesota wants to win right now with Suter and Parise still around their prime.

 

[ThatGuy22]

You basically just stated how McPhee screwed up. Worst case scenario is they select Staal and trade him back to Minnesota for Tuch + Haula. Basically what i'm getting at is Vegas had way more leverage to get a better prospect, a draft to allow Wild to keep their roster together. I don't think Fletcher would've blinked if McPhee asked for a 1st along with Haula + Tuch (which I still think is low)

That defense isn't bad, I agree. But Minnesota wants to win right now with Suter and Parise still around their prime.

Except rules are they cant trade them back to the original team.

Could have tried to trade Staal somewhere else, but he foes have s limited NTC that complicates things.

 

[TaLoN]

You basically just stated how McPhee screwed up. Worst case scenario is they select Staal and trade him back to Minnesota for Tuch + Haula. Basically what i'm getting at is Vegas had way more leverage to get a better prospect, a draft to allow Wild to keep their roster together. I don't think Fletcher would've blinked if McPhee asked for a 1st along with Haula + Tuch (which I still think is low)

That defense isn't bad, I agree. But Minnesota wants to win right now with Suter and Parise still around their prime.

That is against the rules. Also, once the Wild have the extra assets and a LOT more cap space from the trades of Brodin and Scandella... why would we give that to Vegas for Staal when we can look at cheaper options in trade or via free agency?

In that scenario, the Wild could have accepted the loss of Staal alone and in free agency found a completely different center... and maybe could have actually afforded to keep Haula as well.

 

[SB84]

Just horrendous. Saw Haula and thought, "wow let's see the haul, must be a 1st ++". Nope. Tuch, who is not worth anywhere close to a 1st and looks to be a bust candidate AND vegas paid a 3rd. Laughable. I'm actually mad about this. Come on Vegas, you were soooo close to having a good draft. We totally would have looked past the whole Nosek thing if it weren't for this

 

[TaLoN]

Just horrendous. Saw Haula and thought, "wow let's see the haul, must be a 1st ++". Nope. Tuch, who is not worth anywhere close to a 1st and looks to be a bust candidate AND vegas paid a 3rd. Laughable. I'm actually mad about this. Come on Vegas, you were soooo close to having a good draft. We totally would have looked past the whole Nosek thing if it weren't for this

Uh... what?!!??!?!

He's projecting like a more offensively gifted Charlie Coyle right now actually... not sure how that is even CLOSE to a bad thing?

 

[TLEH]

I highly question Tuch's compete level and willingness to do what it takes. Seen him play plenty plenty of times and Not high on him at all. Don't like the move for Vegas

 

[Spectra]

Bad value for Vegas. Only thing that motivates this is the threat of MIN blowing up their team if Vegas played hardball, which would have been entertaining to see. At least get the hometown boy Zucker, McPhee! Must really like Haula I suppose.

 

[TaLoN]

I highly question Tuch's compete level and willingness to do what it takes. Seen him play plenty plenty of times and Not high on him at all. Don't like the move for Vegas

And you are welcome to your opinion... but that doesn't make his value less than a 1st and make him a projected bust as the previous poster claimed.

You just don't think he'll pan out... many people feel that way about many players that both succeed and fail. Right now Tuch is projecting a successful career in the top 6 on an NHL team. He has the value that goes with that projection despite some peoples misgivings.

He's a legit blue-chip prospect that is on the verge of cracking an NHL lineup.

 

[boredmale]

So just looking at Minnesota's expansion roster, I am guessing if their was no side Deal Minnesota probably would of bought Pominville out(or he might have waived it) and 3 of Scandella, Coyle, Zucker or Neiderrieter would have been exposed(using a 4-4-1 protection method). Of those 4 they probably would have traded one of them(my guess one of Scandella or Neiderietter would be traded and the other protected).

So Question is Coyle/Zucker + 3rd worth Haula and Tuch?

 

[TaLoN]

So just looking at Minnesota's expansion roster, I am guessing if their was no side Deal Minnesota probably would of bought Pominville out(or he might have waived it) and 3 of Scandella, Coyle, Zucker or Neiderrieter would have been exposed(using a 4-4-1 protection method). Of those 4 they probably would have traded one of them(my guess one of Scandella or Neiderietter would be traded and the other protected).

So Question is Coyle/Zucker + 3rd worth Haula and Tuch?

No, Fletcher repeatedly said for months leading up, the Wild were using 7-3-1... and the only trade talks that sounded close were last Friday were for both Brodin and Scandella. The Wild were on the verge of moving two LHD, which makes sense since they have 2 LHD prospects looking to break in at the same time.

 

[SB84]

And you are welcome to your opinion... but that doesn't make his value less than a 1st and make him a projected bust as the previous poster claimed.

You just don't think he'll pan out... many people feel that way about many players that both succeed and fail. Right now Tuch is projecting a successful career in the top 6 on an NHL team. He has the value that goes with that projection despite some peoples misgivings.

He's a legit blue-chip prospect that is on the verge of cracking an NHL lineup.

He is absolutely not a blue chip prospect. Eriksson EK, Kunin, Kaprizov and Greenway all passed him on the Wild's organizational depth chart.

 

[TaLoN]

He is absolutely not a blue chip prospect. Eriksson EK, Kunin, Kaprizov and Greenway all passed him on the Wild's organizational depth chart.

They are all blue-chip prospects.

Just because you get a deep prospect pool doesn't mean those who rank lower than others fall off from being a blue-chipper.

He was projecting as the same player last season in AHL performance as he was drafted to be at #18 overall.

He's on the Charlie Coyle path... in fact even outscored Charlie Coyle at the same point of his career.

Also, hard for him to fall below Greenway and Kaprizov on the organicational chart when they technically aren't even IN the organization yet. Greenway is still in College and Kaprizov is still in Russia.

Tuch and Ek were the only two likely vying for NHL roster spots this coming season, Kunin is going to spend most of the year in the AHL.

 

[PAZ]

That is against the rules. Also, once the Wild have the extra assets and a LOT more cap space from the trades of Brodin and Scandella... why would we give that to Vegas for Staal when we can look at cheaper options in trade or via free agency?

In that scenario, the Wild could have accepted the loss of Staal alone and in free agency found a completely different center... and maybe could have actually afforded to keep Haula as well.

Ah, fair enough. But it could still be Tuch + Haula to keep Staal. A full year of Staal at his cap hit and season is worth at least a 1st to a contending team looking to improving like St. Louis.

Who exactly is in free agency? Thornton if he doesn't resign with the Sharks... after that? Not really anyone that comes close to replacing Staal, and certainly not any coming in cheaper in value than Tuch + Haula. On defense the best free agent in Kulikov unless you throw stupid money at Shattenkirk.

All i'm saying is the package he received is equal, or at the very least barely any more value than if he forced Minnesota to trade two defensemen and taken Staal.

 

[TaLoN]

Ah, fair enough. But it could still be Tuch + Haula to keep Staal. A full year of Staal at his cap hit and season is worth at least a 1st to a contending team looking to improving like St. Louis.

Who exactly is in free agency? Thornton if he doesn't resign with the Sharks... after that? Not really anyone that comes close to replacing Staal, and certainly not any coming in cheaper in value than Tuch + Haula. On defense the best free agent in Kulikov unless you throw stupid money at Shattenkirk.

All i'm saying is the package he received is equal, or at the very least barely any more value than if he forced Minnesota to trade two defensemen and taken Staal.

Staal's age at the deadline, doubt he'd get a 1st. Even then, Haula + Tuch > 1st.

Haula is a young and proven center who can win faceoffs and matchup with the best defensively. Tuch is a potential top 6 scoring winger on the verge of cracking an NHL lineup. They both fit Vegas' needs more than Staal alone would have and that is why Vegas made the deal.

Besides, I think Vegas may have even had taken Olofsson before Staal. JMO.

 

[PAZ]

Staal's age at the deadline, doubt he'd get a 1st. Even then, Haula + Tuch > 1st.

Haula is a young and proven center who can win faceoffs and matchup with the best defensively. Tuch is a potential top 6 scoring winger on the verge of cracking an NHL lineup. They both fit Vegas' needs more than Staal alone would have and that is why Vegas made the deal.

Besides, I think Vegas may have even had taken Olofsson before Staal. JMO.

Why does Vegas need to wait until the deadline? Plenty of teams are looking for #1C's right now. Plenty of Minnesota fans were stating how much value Staal when you add in his contract. Almost every contender would be looking to add him since they can all afford him and have a whole year to get him acclimatized to the system, his value is at the very least a 1st.

I'm a huge Haula fan, I don't know much about Tuch besides he fell on the Wild's depth chart to the point he's expendable. I think that would've been a great package for them if all the Wild had to do is trade one defenseman and Staal wasn't exposed.

Basically what i'm saying Fletcher fleeced McPhee, never thought I'd have to be arguing on behalf of the team I despise the most

 

[Lapa]

If Staal is ~60 point player next season, I don't see why he wouldn't get at least a 1st.

That said, we won't trade him.

 

[PAZ]

If Staal is ~60 point player next season, I don't see why he wouldn't get at least a 1st.

That said, we won't trade him.

The talk was about if Vegas drafted him in a worst case scenario. If so, why would they wait to trade him at the deadline? His value is worth more now than at the deadline.

 

[Lapa]

The talk was about if Vegas drafted him in a worst case scenario. If so, why would they wait to trade him at the deadline? His value is worth more now than at the deadline.

Ah, I see.

I'd say he would get a better return now unless he has a monster season next season.

 

[Sharppi]

Fletcher, you are a ****ing wizard.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Can't believe this is all the MIN expansion selection turned into

 

[TaLoN]

Chuck Fletcher be like...

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Can't believe this is all the MIN expansion selection turned into

Yeah no kidding.

Lose Haula. Everybody loses a player. So that's not a big deal.

Tuch for not touching any of the core guys + a draft pick? That's a ****ing steal.

 

[orcatown]

Awful. Dumba/Scandella way better option

Absolutely. Vegas off to a bad start with McPhee overthinking ever thing and not doing the obvious.