Watch Tampa win this year and get Miller back for a run at a 4 peat
We'll take Cernak, plus either Cirelli or Colton, plus an early pick (at least a 2nd), thanks.
Friedman: Miller extension unlikely with Canucks, timeline doesnt fit, and trade offers are going to be too good to pass up
- Thread starter UrbanImpact
- Start date
We'll take Cernak, plus either Cirelli or Colton, plus an early pick (at least a 2nd), thanks.
bandwagonesque
I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
- Mar 5, 2014
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Every trade thread : Leafs fans demanding that their offer is best and other team must take it.
Other team's fans : we don't agree.
Leafs fans : We don't care.
How many times does this cycle has to continue????
Other team's fans : we don't agree.
Leafs fans : We don't care.
How many times does this cycle has to continue????
Its a weird feeling when we are used to going all in after being a bottom 10 team for years and constantly losing more and more draft picks with a drafting "guru" lol
Two problems with this. First the deal wouldn't just involve Nylander, Vancouver fans want Liljegren, a first and probably another piece which is crazy. Second Miller is 29 now and will be 30 this upcoming season, if hes looking for a 6 or 7 year deal he will be payed 8.5 to 9 million when he's 34, 35, and 36 years old. Not a recipe for success any way you slice it.
Leafs can't trade for Miller and resign him time to move on to the maybe 4 or 5 other teams that have interest, the assets, the ability to resign Miller, and the appropriate time line for contention. The above criteria hints to not a very large market so the Canucks should get this done sooner rather then later or he becomes a true rental.
TheDoldrums
Registered User
Literally never seen anyone make as many threads as the OP does for JT Miller. All with basically the same info, he's likely being traded!
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
It's good to want things, in reality it's unlikely to happen
Making the playoffs might end up hurting the rebuild, as it could make them feel they're ahead of where they are
I think it is important to reiterate that Friedman said this is based on an extended Miller. According to previous rumours, Miller may be looking for a Zibanejad type deal, so 7x8.5 may be a reasonable assumption at least for the ask with room for negotiation. Unless of course a team prefers a rental. Also reasonable to assume the Canucks a looking for a deal that is better than the rumoured Lundkvist, Chytil, and NYR 1st.
Can you elaborate on what a LAK contending team in two years looks like? Is it a Danault led forward group that includes Byfield and Turcotte down the middle, an even older Doughty on defence and Petersen in net? Or are you counting on signing quality UFAs, or other prospects that are going to step in and be immediate all-stars like Clarke?
It seems like you almost beat a team that is going to the final 4 this year, and wouldn't you want to capitalize on the window that includes Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick while they're still very good players?
Assuming a young core could come in and lead the team to the SCF is pretty optimistic in my opinion.
Although I did not mention JT Miller at all in this post, I am expecting a 'we no want old expensive contract' response, but please, prove me wrong!
Let me try:
The window that includes Kopitar is closed already. He is at best third line center on contending team.
The goalie position must be updated ASAP
Quick is still good, but old and one injury away from retirement
Petersen in net is not a starting goalie on contending team.
Kings defense needs Clarke, Faber and Spence to be developed correctly (1-2 years)
Kings defense needs at least one big and physical defensemen ASAP
Kings offense needs Byfield, Kupari, Kaliev, Turcotte, Chromiak and Vilardi to be developed correctly (1-2 years)
Kings offense needs at least one big and physical forward ASAP
Bondra slapshot
Registered User
- Jul 21, 2009
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They already won two cups with that core of veterans so it's not like there's a dire urgency to go all-in right now to gift those veterans one final chance at winning a cup they never experienced.
What a lot of people forget is that a great amount of a team's improvement comes from the existing players they already have getting more experience and getting older.
You act as if Miller is a godsend to any potential playoff team and said team should happily and easily fork over coveted assets. It's very hard to predict how a team will ultimately improve in a couple of years but with the Kings' youth, there's certainly no rush. They have options just like you and your Canucks and there's no requirement for them to take an expensive gamble on Miller for an all-in move with a very young surrounding cast.
There is not a player on Vancouvers roster the Avs trade Byram for. He’s so much more valuable than a JT Miller rental. Byram looks exactly like what a star number 1 D man looks like at age 20.
I doubt Avs put Newhook on the table either. They see him as a second line player next year.
the Nashville offer would be your best one from that list.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
I agree with most of what you said here… I will also state that most teams could use a miller, as well. But you’re right not every team is in the position to make a deal for him and could choose to stand-pat or finish rounding out their rebuild too. Some of the Canucks fans get so focused on teams with the exact prospects and picks we’d want that they forget to look at the bigger picture/ putting themselves in the other teams shoes.
Miller likely goes to a team that’s either on the verge of taking next step to compete for a cup, team/GM who’s so desperate to save his ass and make a splash and/ or one who failed in these playoffs and feel they are only 1-2 pieces away from glory.
Magic Man
Registered User
If the Canucks retain on Miller this season and he then re-signs in Toronto, the Leafs don't have to worry about moving Nylander until next off-season if they chose to handle it that way. So, they could take a run at it with both of them this year and then the Leafs could recoup some of the assets lost on Miller and sign Miller long term. Like you said Nylander + salary inflation should cover Miller for the most part. They could also look at Muzzin and a secondary player out for cap space next year.
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biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
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It really is one of those situations where it obviously hurts to let go of a key piece like Miller, but he's also at that age where it just doesn't make sense for the Canucks to do the sort of term he's going to want (at a big number). Even if you looked at the Canucks as trying to enter a "win now" phase, that's going to be one of those regrettable contracts where you go into it knowing that you've signed at least 2-3 "bad years" tacked on the end, just to get it done with a top free agent. If you're where the Canucks are now, i think you really have to stay away from those sort of deals.
While JTM makes sense for Colorado on the surface when they lose Kadri this summer, I’m not sure they could possibly view him as anything more than a rental. His next contract will simply not be tenable.
No chance Sakic gives up Newhook or Byram for a rental. And yea Canucks fans, I get that your return dreams are based upon a signed JTM - but the Avs won’t be the target in that case. It’ll need to be a team with the financial flexibility moving forward to retain him.
If the Avs somehow cleared the decks enough to afford a veteran 90 point #2 center long-term - then they’ll just look to re-sign Kadri and keep their blue chip young players as well. Kadri also seems far more likely to give something of a discount to stay in Colorado than JTM would be given how he has really found a home on this roster (not that I’m expecting it).
No chance Sakic gives up Newhook or Byram for a rental. And yea Canucks fans, I get that your return dreams are based upon a signed JTM - but the Avs won’t be the target in that case. It’ll need to be a team with the financial flexibility moving forward to retain him.
If the Avs somehow cleared the decks enough to afford a veteran 90 point #2 center long-term - then they’ll just look to re-sign Kadri and keep their blue chip young players as well. Kadri also seems far more likely to give something of a discount to stay in Colorado than JTM would be given how he has really found a home on this roster (not that I’m expecting it).
I expect that the Atlantic will be an arms race this summer.
Tampa has a few more runs with this core. They will either be looking to win a 4th ina row, or try to get back on top after coming close this year.
Florida will be looking to improve after a disappointing end to this year.
Toronto is probably on the last chance with this management and core if they can't win a few rounds next year. I think they sell the farm to get over the hump next year.
Boston will either be looking to make a major re tool, or have one last shot with this group
Ottawa, Buffalo and Detroit have some very nice young pieces, and tons of cap space to make a big splash. I expect them to push pretty hard this offseason, as they are all nearing the end of their re builds.
I fully expect that if the Canucks deal Miller, he will be heading to one of the Atlantic teams. whoever gets a player like him for potentially 2.6 mil will impact the division significantly.
I feel Boston is in the best position to get a deal done.
Tampa has a few more runs with this core. They will either be looking to win a 4th ina row, or try to get back on top after coming close this year.
Florida will be looking to improve after a disappointing end to this year.
Toronto is probably on the last chance with this management and core if they can't win a few rounds next year. I think they sell the farm to get over the hump next year.
Boston will either be looking to make a major re tool, or have one last shot with this group
Ottawa, Buffalo and Detroit have some very nice young pieces, and tons of cap space to make a big splash. I expect them to push pretty hard this offseason, as they are all nearing the end of their re builds.
I fully expect that if the Canucks deal Miller, he will be heading to one of the Atlantic teams. whoever gets a player like him for potentially 2.6 mil will impact the division significantly.
I feel Boston is in the best position to get a deal done.
What contender in the cap era has a Kopitar level player playing on the third line? That team would have dominated the entire NHL.
That doesn't even take into account you said at best LOL. Including the non cap era, what team in the entire NHL history has ever had a Kopitar (60-70 point player) on their 4th line?!?
if you were a GM, unless you built a team USA/Canada/Russia/Sweden level roster you would think your team has no chance at a cup. Meaning you would think you could never be a contender
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kilowatt
the vibes are not immaculate
- Jan 1, 2009
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Yeah, because it's bullshit. Kopitar might not be a high-end 1C anymore, but he's still very much a first line center. If you're lucky enough to have Kopitar as your 2C and Danault as your 3C, then you've got the best depth in the NHL. Even still, he was a top 20 center in scoring. That's not terrible.
The problem is that Kopitar's decline could start increasing pace rapidly. It's not a guarantee of course, but he turns 35 next season (how is that even possible?). He's already showed signs of slowing down. LA needs Byfield to start stepping into a 1C role ASAP or there will be a pretty big void when the inevitable occurs.
Still, I'd love for LA's center depth to be Kopitar - Miller - Danault. Three really great lines would be wonderful.
Kempe - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Byfield - Miller - Arvidsson
Moore - Danault - Vilardi
JAD - Lizotte - Grundstrom
If we can do something like Turcotte and Faber for a signed Miller, that would be huge. Sign me up
If vancouver's front office was smart they would retain 50% and max that return.
Guy is built for playoff hockey
-Leads them in hits
-penalty kills
-dominant on the PP
-tied for even strength scoring
-top 10 in NHL scoring
I mean look at the top 10 in scoring for this season, and of those player nobody has 100 hits
Miller has 179 hits.
you would have old school GM's and more number focused GM's bidding on him
Guy is built for playoff hockey
-Leads them in hits
-penalty kills
-dominant on the PP
-tied for even strength scoring
-top 10 in NHL scoring
I mean look at the top 10 in scoring for this season, and of those player nobody has 100 hits
Miller has 179 hits.
you would have old school GM's and more number focused GM's bidding on him
Agree with your views. There have been numerous threads between LA and VAN, I've noticed Kinghock usually has the most outlandish takes. Every fanbase has these kinda posters though eh. Its just more prominent since the LA fanbase here is mostly fairly reasonable IMO and Hock is one of the most active Kings fans on these boards.Yeah, because it's bullshit. Kopitar might not be a high-end 1C anymore, but he's still very much a first line center. If you're lucky enough to have Kopitar as your 2C and Danault as your 3C, then you've got the best depth in the NHL. Even still, he was a top 20 center in scoring. That's not terrible.
The problem is that Kopitar's decline could start increasing pace rapidly. It's not a guarantee of course, but he turns 35 next season (how is that even possible?). He's already showed signs of slowing down. LA needs Byfield to start stepping into a 1C role ASAP or there will be a pretty big void when the inevitable occurs.
Still, I'd love for LA's center depth to be Kopitar - Miller - Danault. Three really great lines would be wonderful.
Kempe - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Byfield - Miller - Arvidsson
Moore - Danault - Vilardi
JAD - Lizotte - Grundstrom
If we can do something like Turcotte and Faber for a signed Miller, that would be huge. Sign me up
In terms of a deal. Turcotte is a very high risk high reward option. Faber definitely fits an organizational need. A lot of Canucks fans wanted us to draft him in 2020 with our 2nd before dim Jim traded it to you guys for Tofu.
I dont think those 2 alone would be enough. I believe the Canucks will be looking for a 23 1st and or a 22 2nd as they are very high on the 23 draft (case in point reason why they traded Motte for a 23 pick over a 22). They also have been heavily rumored to be in the market for a 2nd round pick this upcoming draft.
My proposal has usually been a 22 2nd + 23 1st + Turcotte. Id much rather have Faber to Turcotte though.
I get for LA they probably would rather sell some of the prospects they have instead of future picks given they are starting to age out and come to the make or break points in their careers all at the same time.
Turcotte + Faber + Vilardi in that case may get it done
The top rumored offer at the deadline was 22 1st + Lundqvist + Chytil. Turcotte + Faber + Vilardi would be around the same level of an offer.
You have been able to convince Kilowatt to do bad trade for Kings, but I am pretty sure that majority of LA fans still not interested in trade for Miller…
kilowatt
the vibes are not immaculate
- Jan 1, 2009
- 18,674
- 21,732
I'd probably do it if LA is able to sign Miller to an extension before the trade. I know a lot of Kings fans will freak out and say that it's too much to trade, but the truth is that Blake and McLellan probably won't put Vilardi in a position to succeed here. He was our 2C two seasons ago, and then this past season he was kind of a scapegoat and spent most of the year in Ontario. It is what it is, I still have high hopes for him, but I don't think the organization does.
Turcotte is so tough because he keeps getting injured, but if he were healthy, he'd be the perfect LA player. In fact, I'd love to have Turcotte on Miller's wing. That would be an ideal situation for us.
A change of scenery would do Vilardi a ton of good I think, especially if there's room for him in Vancouver's top six.
Would Vilardi, Faber, and LA's 23 1st do the trick instead, then?
Byfield - Kopitar - Kempe
Turcotte - Miller - Arvidsson
Moore - Danault - Kaliyev
JAD - Lizotte - Grundstrom
No one's convinced me of anything, I just see who McLellan plays and who McLellan doesn't play. The best case scenario for me is that all the prospects we've drafted are put into top six roles and thrive. Unfortunately, we don't live in fantasy land. Instead, we have guys like Athanasiou and Iafallo playing next to Kopitar for half the season, even though there are other options available. If we're not going to give our prospects playing time in a rebuild, then I'd rather trade them for valuable players who will help us win.
