Post-Game Talk: Mike Sullivan Hockey Baby!

Honour Over Glory

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So just got back...

  • Ned still sucks ass at HD Shots, he was strong in the first, fantastic even and even half way through the 2nd as well, but then he started to lose track of the puck in traffic and then just bit hard on moves and when the Canucks scored one, I told my wife "ok here it comes, they'll score maybe 2-3 more"....yuck. I really wanted Ned to have a strong game, not choke on the HD shots and just have a consistent game, but that was tough, felt for the bloke, he battled hard in the first period then in the 2nd, the Canucks scored on their 3rd shot and the momentum swing to sink the Pens began after Rust's goal. Ned looked rattled after that and the Pens defense then did him no favours the rest of the game, 16-5 shots in the 2nd after already getting shit on by the Canucks in the 1st for shots and some push back, but then they just gave up in the 2nd and like usual, tried when it was too late in the 3rd.
  • Glad Geno is ok.
  • Rust, typical - This is why I would have moved him asap in the summer, he's going to do his usual 50-60 game shtick and they should have got something for him while they could. He just can't stay healthy consistently.
  • Sullivan f***ed around with the lines so much it was moronic, I was happy to see Raks with Sid, was curious about Beau with Geno and Rust and that worked out until Sully decided Beau was playing too well with Geno and Rust and then took him off Geno's line to put back with Sid, just why? To ruin L2 to make Sid's line work, why the f*** wouldn't you try literally the other wingers? Hayes, Bunting, etc. At one point, I was shocked to see on a line change, Sid come out with Doc and Puusty on the ice, it didn't last long as it was just a late change, but yeah, those 2 with Eller are great, he seemingly got Sid + Raks right and even Rust + Geno, then went full moron as usual.
  • Puustinen literally did nothing wrong in his shifts and he got shafted, not even shocked, just pissed at myself because I was stupid enough to expect Sullivan not to be a dumb twat about this, he was fine in his shifts, 6:36 ES/TOI, how the f*** do you expect a player to grow from the previous year with some of the dumbest usage of a player in this league?
  • Acciari was kept out for some long shifts, it felt like he was getting double shifted this game and it felt like Geno was barely played in the first period.
  • Puljujarvi, Hayes, and Puustinen didn't look bad today, but they were shit on by Sullivan for their usage for some reason, Hayes hasn't been bad at all this season, but he gets played so little its hard to see him get momentum because of it.
  • Acciari + Rust on the PK is awful, this needs to stop being a f***ing thing, Eller + Doc are incredible, Hayes is even better on the PK than Acciari + Rust as a duo.
  • Sid & Doc looked like they were playing a game of "Let's see who can do the most dumb blind passes all game" - Both were losers for being winners at it. The stat recording for this game is way off, they had a couple of turnovers each, yet it was recorded as 0 for Sid.
  • While Bunting is not good right now, Sid is right there with him, it's hard to even type this knowing this is a thing with a player like Sid after the year he had last season right now, but Crosby is one of the worst players on this team right now, just dumb play one after another, MJ got fired for having a slow start with Sid, how Sullivan isn't fired for this is just one of the most insane arc's to this team's story right now.
  • Defense collapses, typical, they played parts of this game very well but they were few and far inbetween, just far too much of the same issues under Sullivan's system.
  • Tocchet basically trolled Sullivan in the 2nd with an aggressive 1-2-2 as if to say "Remember this you dumb f***?"
  • I was somewhat shocked there was no challenge on that goal by JT Miller, I kept waiting for it and nothing, I thought it was interference but I guess the Pens video team didn't.
  • Bunting was just absolutely awful, but then Sullivan didn't really do much to try to get him out of it, it was either with Eller + Acciari or Eller + Puusty and Bunting tanked it for both variations, not Eller, Puusty, or Acciari's fault.
    • Bunting - He was doing the past part fine, but his usage was just, I mean you want a player to rebound? Watch how Bunting is used for a textbook how not to. He seems to get it for Beauvillier - Who mind you, had a fantastic game today, but then he can't figure it out for Bunting, it's like he just doesn't want to do the right things with this roster.
    • Bunting to me, you either try him with Sid next or just healthy scratch him until you're fired as a coach, because to keep doing the same shit over and over and expect to get a player playing awful right now to figure it out, isn't going to work. Bunting tanked lines he was on with Eller. & Puustinen and Acciari and Eller, Sullivan just refuses to try him with Sid for some bizarre reason and Sid is someone also searching for his game as desperately as Bunting is.
  • Back to Doc-Sid-Raks, Raks was fine on that line, the issue was they'd get a shots on net, generate chances, then Doc would do a dumb blind pass or Sid would and the Canucks dunked on their dumb asses for 2 goals. Doc also kept trying to skate the puck in when he needed to dump it behind the D when they had another winger coming in, his indecision would make Raks pull up and then it would end the momentum. There were times Doc would actually pull up as well when the Pens were dumping it in which allowed the Canucks with 2 D and the F3 to come in and just negate the play entirely because Doc would come in hot and basically let up at the blueline.
  • There is just so much stuff that you see that is coaching and it's frustrating to see it and know the ownership doesn't care and Dubas is either not fighting hard enough or he is but we just don't know what the f*** is going on behind the scenes. To come away on this 3 game Western Canada swing with 1pt out of 6 is beyond pathetic - Anyone remember what we predicted for this? I think I said 1 or maybe 3 pts?
  • I knew Sprong would get a point today, I swear Tocchet knew Sprong gets motivated against Sullivan and was like yeah this is a no brainer, he always looks dangerous against the Pens and hasn't scored yet, but he's set up a couple.
  • I see the admin ignore feature means even if a wanker creates a thread, I still can't see it, even if I am fine not seeing his shit, but would like to engage in the convo with the rest, ah well.
  • Let me just say - to have Geno put up 3pts and play well with Beauvillier only for Sullivan to take him off his line, that's just f***ing stupid. So f***ing stupid, so the only chance you have to maybe get this into OT to get a point and maybe another and you remove that option to throw Beauvillier with Sid and Rakell? Beauvillier-Malkin-Rust had the look of a decent trio, I think if Rust is out long term, I put Puustinen there as he would it the best with how they play.
  • Puljujarvi - He's not playing poorly, but he's not playing enough and his fit on this roster is somewhere, just not sure where. He isn't great with Hayes & Acciari, but he is good, sort of, with Doc and Eller, their Corsi is almost at 50% (21-22) but they produce a lot of shots and give up less, it's a line that could get better with more time together. It's funny because the McG-Eller-JP line was good and Sullivan gave up on it for literally no reason, he had a line that looked good and said nah, I don't like positive things in this line-up.
  • Bench management - Sullivan will never get this right and this is just f***ing enough already, some of the dumbest usage of the bench I have ever seen from a Penguins coach in a very f***ing long time.
  • The give-aways stat is so incorrect, Sid had a couple this game, Doc did as well. Somehow that isn't recorded correctly.
  • Sherwood's goal, I wish could have thrown something at Rust for how lazy his backcheck was, Geno was busting his ass to get back and Rust just stops skating at one point and coasts and Letang, the one time he could have laid down to take the pass away to give Ned one shooter to focus on, he kind of just is useless in that situation with barely any good attempt from him.
  • Doc had a very rough game, he was great on the PK with Eller, but other than that, was on the ice for 3 of the 4 Vancouver scored, Sid was on for 2.
  • Grzelcyk isn't the partner for Karlsson, at least not based on this game.
  • Penguins heatmap the last 8 seasons under Sullivan should be the same, just let teams walk right into the slot and score, give up as many odd man rushes and score in that same area, bang in rebounds, etc, etc...but yeah "HE'S GOT THE WRONG PLAYERS BRO, LIKE BRO, HOW CAN HE PLAY A SYSTEM BRO THAT NEEDS FASTER PLAYERS BRO?!" - Sure...

Regarding Doc + Eller, there's so much chemistry there, this need to force him on Sid's LW or Geno's LW isn't the right move here, to have a player produce like him on the 3rd line is an amazing thing, to have a pair on the 3rd that can do what Eller and Doc can do with chemistry is a very good thing. Sullivan started that game desperate, he had the two-head monster with Sid & Geno with Raks in the first period, they've actually produced 3 goals this season so it works in limited usage, but mostly because of Geno & Raks really, I had to laugh while at the game when I saw that super early in the first period, like really mate that early? Geno went beast mode on his goal while they were out there with Sid just falling on his ass while Raks played give and go with Geno essentially (more like give the puck and let Geno go be one man wrecking crew). Geno just did Geno things. Geno and Blomqvist are the only 2 reasons to watch this team right now.

That goal by Geno was just fun to watch, this is why I went really (or why my wife said I would be happy about going to see), Geno starts that rush, SId fumbles it lol and Geno is like ok wanker fine I'll do it myself and just an amazing goal. He looks so good out there with his skating and it's sad Sullivan did what he always does, Beau looked good with him and was yanked off his line to be with Sid, so now you ruin L2 and have L1 do jack shit again.

What sucks is last year, they wasted Crosby willing the team to wins for a lot of games, this year Malkin is doing it and Sullivan is going to waste this too. If anyone wants to talk about doing these two justice, what happened last year from Sullivan's shit coaching and what we're seeing right now is more than enough for 31 teams to say ok bye, don't let the door hit you on your ass on the way out.

While Rust is out long term I would go:

Bunting, Crosby, Rakell
Beauvillier, Malkin, Puustinen
O'Connor, Eller, Puljujarvi
Hayes, Acciari, Glass

Bottom 2 lines - Get them more f***ing ice time.

Btw - Geno wasn't hurt on his goal, he just needed a break for being the only franchise legend that gave a shit tonight.
 
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Chuck Norris Trophy

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View attachment 922287

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I dare you to spot the difference. Dumb and dumber
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Big Friggin Dummy

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At this point, just keep Sullivan through the season and play Jarry and Ned a bunch. f*** it. Go for a top-5 pick in the draft.

That was a f***ing hilarious collapse though. :laugh: At least it was an entertaining loss. Sid's gotta get his head out of his ass. Geno never quits, but his body's gonna give out on him sooner than later if he keeps having to be Superman every time the team plays. Everybody on defense sucks absolute shit, from Petts, to Letang, to EK, right on down. :laugh:
 

Honour Over Glory

Blomqvist for Vezina + ROTY
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Pickering was solid in camp. He'd be my first choice.
I'm guessing someone suggested a call up or something.

But Grzelcyk with Karlsson is awful. Pettersson and Karlsson were the right pairing, on a team that has a lot of shit metrics right now, it's hard to really say any pairing is good in this god awful system, but that one was a pair that wasn't as much of a disaster as the other ideas by SullyQuinn. For D-Partners that have played at least 25+ mins together, that is sadly our best pairing lol. But then Letang and Pettersson are also right behind them and both Letang and Karlsson suck with Grzelcyk, Letang is slightly less awful with him.

One of the more shocking things this season is that for about 10mins each, Graves has been actually pretty good with Karlsson and Letang, also his best partner is Shea (for Graves). So I don't know, they might have to try the one thing they didn't think they would ever again since Grzelcyk is awful with both EK and Tanger...

Pettersson, Karlsson
Graves, Letang
Grzelcyk, Shea

How f***ing bizarre is it to know this year, the one defenseman that Karlsson, Letang, Grzelcyk, and Pettersson all have looked good with is Ryan f***ing Graves. Ryan Shea btw, he had 2 strong games with Graves - Against the Habs and the Jets and yet he was taken back out for St Ivany who hasn't really been good with Graves. Not shocking, I like St Ivany, but I felt he should be sent down before this for Shea (or calling up Aho in his place as the 7th rotating with Shea).

View attachment 922287

View attachment 922288


I dare you to spot the difference. Dumb and dumber


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Zbynek

Jarry friggin sucks dude
Jun 6, 2011
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Can we not do any better than Grizz lick? He’s been brutal all year. Graves has been better than this guy.

Ryan Shea, Sebastian Aho, Mac Hallowell, Owen Pickering , take your pick. Any one of them should be getting time over him.
Grizz f***ing sucks dude. This guy is puke. I suppose we should be grateful Dubas didn't give him a 4 year contract though.

I watch this guy play and ask myself, where exactly did Dubas want to pencil him into our lineup?
 
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Honour Over Glory

Blomqvist for Vezina + ROTY
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Grizz f***ing sucks dude. This guy is puke. I suppose we should be grateful Dubas didn't give him a 4 year contract though.
Dubas is a dipshit for letting Sullivan and Quinn talk him into signing him. To make the mistake 2yrs in a row...

Dubas has never heard the saying "Fool me once, shame on you..."

I bet the only way he would agree to it is on a 1yr deal, might be the only good thing from that dipshit signing. He's not worth 2.75m for even 1yr. It's I guess good that at least Graves has bounced back this season from the disaster he was last year, of course, the only issue is everything else is a bigger disaster this season than he was last year, except for him, lol.
 

Honour Over Glory

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Here we go, yohe asked him a tough questions (lol) about Karl……lol….what a brave journo
Yohe has an axe to grind with Karlsson, so that's not unusual for that low life scum to make it about Karlsson. Who wasn't even bad tonight, Grzelcyk is just like a virus on this blueline with Letang and Karlsson. Graves has been pretty good, like an idiots argument would be some soft minutes bs or something like that, but there are no soft minutes on this blueline right now, saying soft minutes makes sense on a good team where a coach is sheltering his defense.

But on a team that gives up the most shots on net, most high danger shots, a ton of odd man rushes, an impressive amount of defensive collapses? Yeah, soft minutes is like a smooth brained argument for anyone on this blueline. It's ok to admit Graves went from hot garbage last year to surprisingly decent for these 10 games.

In any case, Yohe has it out for Karlsson, he seems jilted that Letang isn't the top bloke anymore, so he goes after Karlsson any chance he gets while Karlsson has been playing better this year, he's had a couple of bad games (with Grz vs Oilers and with Petts vs NYR) and a somewhat mediocre one (Grz vs Van), but mostly he's been good for a shit show team.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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EK probably just doesn't want to give Yohe fun quotes or be his pal. EK hates media stuff. Yohe probably takes it personally because he's a weirdo.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Blomqvist for Vezina + ROTY
Jan 30, 2012
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I am probably the only idiot still awake torturing myself listening to this radio post game show. Not one they even mentioned sully’s name, just unleashing on EK he is low hanging fruit for them, they went over entire defense except Letang, and of course not mentioning Sid’s stinker. They are team’s mouthpiece but still….
It's funny because Letang was also hot garbage with Grzelcyk but they won't focus on that, they will make it about Karlsson as often as they can because its who Dubas brought in and it takes away from the legend that is Kris Letang in their pea brains. And yeah I am still up right now too, just so frustrated seeing that shit and then knowing the Pens media just stood their flaccid AF asking none of the questions they should be asking and finding scapegoats for the shitty coaching this team has had for over 2 seasons now.

Sergei Gonchar played more inspired defense in his bad 05-6 run than EK is doing right now lol
Karlsson has 2 games where he looks bad and his partner is Grzelcyk, the one that also had Letang look like crap, weird, its like there's a common denominator or something, I wonder if it's the shampoo, no wait, maybe Gryz. Otherwise, he hasn't even remotely been as bad as anyone wants to make him out to be, there's more than enough good with all of these players to know it's the coach and his system and this excuse that he doesn't have the right players to play his system - well if the system wasn't idiotic to begin with, it wouldn't matter if he did.

It's funny that Graves has been good with Pets, EK, and Tanger during a season where there is no sheltered minutes for anyone on D yet they keep trying to force Gryz with one of EK or Tanger with disastrous results for both RHD's. Just trying to force their fellow Masshole and BU ties for a wanker like Quinn. Gryz would be fine with St Ivany or Shea on the 3rd pair right now.
 
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AuroraBorealis

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Oct 16, 2018
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I'm guessing someone suggested a call up or something.

But Grzelcyk with Karlsson is awful. Pettersson and Karlsson were the right pairing, on a team that has a lot of shit metrics right now, it's hard to really say any pairing is good in this god awful system, but that one was a pair that wasn't as much of a disaster as the other ideas by SullyQuinn. For D-Partners that have played at least 25+ mins together, that is sadly our best pairing lol. But then Letang and Pettersson are also right behind them and both Letang and Karlsson suck with Grzelcyk, Letang is slightly less awful with him.

One of the more shocking things this season is that for about 10mins each, Graves has been actually pretty good with Karlsson and Letang, also his best partner is Shea (for Graves). So I don't know, they might have to try the one thing they didn't think they would ever again since Grzelcyk is awful with both EK and Tanger...

Pettersson, Karlsson
Graves, Letang
Grzelcyk, Shea

How f***ing bizarre is it to know this year, the one defenseman that Karlsson, Letang, Grzelcyk, and Pettersson all have looked good with is Ryan f***ing Graves. Ryan Shea btw, he had 2 strong games with Graves - Against the Habs and the Jets and yet he was taken back out for St Ivany who hasn't really been good with Graves. Not shocking, I like St Ivany, but I felt he should be sent down before this for Shea (or calling up Aho in his place as the 7th rotating with Shea).
Yeah, give Graves a chance at redemption. It's not like we have better in-house alternatives anyway.
He used to be a solid defenseman in this league, so I'm not surprised he's slowly rebounding. I've never believed in giving up on guys after year 1 of long deals.
Agreed on the Petts-Letang pairing.
I'm kinda meh on St. Ivany right now. Grzelcyk I'd demote entirely. Try Aho and Pickering.
When your team's 30th defensively, you better be making sweeping changes to the blue line, experimenting with combinations until you find something that works.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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I'm just wondering exactly what it'd take to get this team to fire Sullivan. :laugh: It's wild. About to be seven years without a playoff series win, about to miss three times in a row, five straight losses into a slide--we'll see how long that goes.

And in the end, I'm convinced Sullivan's job security is as high as it's ever been. Stupid team. Deserves to be the laughing stock of the league tbh.
 
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Honour Over Glory

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Yeah, give Graves a chance at redemption. It's not like we have better in-house alternatives anyway.
He used to be a solid defenseman in this league, so I'm not surprised he's slowly rebounding. I've never believed in giving up on guys after year 1 of long deals.
Agreed on the Petts-Letang pairing.
I'm kinda meh on St. Ivany right now. Grzelcyk I'd demote entirely. Try Aho and Pickering.
When your team's 30th defensively, you better be making sweeping changes to the blue line, experimenting with combinations until you find something that works.
Grzelcyk's game on his own isn't awful but his game when paired with Letang and Karlsson, is. But he has some brief usage with St Ivany where he's been good, so it's just one of those things where at this point, why wouldn't you try it after the Oilers disaster of a game? To just literally go with the same D pairings but then shuffle the shit out of the deck with the forwards is typical Sullivan.

One of Sullivan's issues in his downfall been the fact that he refuses to get out of his own way with doing what's right vs what he thinks should work. He won't even touch would could possibly work, he will try 1 different option with a slight variation over the other 3 options that could work but he seems to dislike the notion that his first idea isn't the right one.
 

Honour Over Glory

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Pickering will be like 30 by the time this team's ready to win a series again. I'm not worried about it. He probably won't even be here at that time.
I would not put Pickering in this situation at all, that's more about how much I want him to succeed than anything and playing on this disaster of a system and under this coach is something Dubas should avoid at all costs right now. I would keep him there and let him keep getting minutes and coaching from 2 very good developmental minds in MacDonald and Luukko (Brookbank can f*** off).

I'd try Shea and St Ivany with Grz and if that doesn't work, call up Aho and try him, Owen is in his 1st year in the AHL, we need him to be Un-Sullied so he can be one of the leaders on this blueline for the other lads like Brunicke.

PS - It sucks Murashov got sent down to Wheeling, but honestly, this won't be for more longer than 14 days at the most, so while that sucks for him, it's at last going to get him some games as well and be ready for WBS when Jarry is done his assignment. But I am happy to see Jarry had a very good game in WBS, at least something good happened on Saturday besides Geno and Beau having a good game.
 

Honour Over Glory

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I'm just wondering exactly what it'd take to get this team to fire Sullivan. :laugh: It's wild. About to be seven years without a playoff series win, about to miss three times in a row, five straight losses into a slide--we'll see how long that goes.

And in the end, I'm convinced Sullivan's job security is as high as it's ever been. Stupid team. Deserves to be the laughing stock of the league tbh.
Technically he's missed 3, 2 of them consecutively..

2019-20 he missed the playoffs - Because he coudn't get them past the Habs in the play in.
2022-23 - Missed
2023-24 - Missed
2024-25 - On track to repeat the last 2 seasons.

The last 7 seasons he's won 1 round, out in the first round 3x, and missed the playoffs 3x. I don't care who we blame on the roster, he makes the decisions, under his guidance, they failed to make the playoffs 3x and 1 playoff series win in 7 seasons is just nuts to keep ignoring the fact that he's been the problem and the media just refuses to ask him anything.

It's comical, it's like he can keep f***ing everything up and everyone scrambles and falls over each other to blame everyone but him.

They fired DIsco for less after his cup win - In his 5 seasons after his Cup win, Disco never missed the playoffs, was out in the 1st round 2x and won 3 playoff rounds and they knew they needed to move on from him and he had this team still in the thick of things with Sid & Geno gone for 80% or half of some seasons, etc. Yet they will act like he definitely needed to go. It was always that Bylsma let the team down by his coaching.

With Sullivan the narrative is the team has let him down, LOL. Sullivan claimed he's made adjustments and when he was asked what they were, he refused to elaborate and didn't want to answer it at all. He really is an asshole. If you want to say you made adjustments, then obviously a reporter is going to ask to elaborate and refusing to do so doesn't prove you've made adjustments at all.

I was glad when Disco was fired, but at this point I am also happy Sullivan won't be the coach with the best winning % in the Crosby era.
 

cygnus47

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Sep 14, 2013
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I'm just wondering exactly what it'd take to get this team to fire Sullivan. :laugh: It's wild. About to be seven years without a playoff series win, about to miss three times in a row, five straight losses into a slide--we'll see how long that goes.

And in the end, I'm convinced Sullivan's job security is as high as it's ever been. Stupid team. Deserves to be the laughing stock of the league tbh.

I think the FSG Dubas stuff is way overblown, but the lack of pride in being a winning organisation since they bought us is noticeable. You can really feel that the org is neutral and in a holding pattern. Maybe it’s realistic given the state of our roster, but I feel like making losing ok is how you end up like buffalo instead of rebuilding quickly.
 

BusinessGoose

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May 19, 2022
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We are a bullet point in an investment portfolio not a passion.

This team is dead under FSG. Potentially even under a group who cares. Drafting into contention isn't easy and we have a bunch of dead weight contracts that means we can't even sign into contention.

This is very bad. Like. "1975" chants bad. Get ready to witness the fall of western civilization formerly known as penguins hockey.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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All I care about anymore is that this team trades Petts at the TDL, trades Rust and EK this summer, and Sully is fired as soon as the season ends. That's all I want. f*** wins and losses. This team's pretty much unwatchable anymore. Tank the season, hope you luck into making the right choice with your top-5 pick, find a new coaching staff this summer with people who are new to the scene and have a proven track record of development. We're way past the event horizon, there's no escaping the pull of the black hole anymore.

Also f*** FSG forever.
 

Invalid cuz QoC

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Idk if you heard the pregame show, but they let it slip that “big changes are coming if they lose this game”.

Never heard them say it so confidently before.
 

orby

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These losses are what needs to happen. The Pens haven't been a legit contender for half a decade now. They need to sell off everyone they can by the trade deadline, draft as high as possible, and allow Crosby, Malkin, and Letang to spend the end of their careers mentoring a young, hungry team... without Sullivan.
 

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