Mike Richards VIII Kings vs NHLPA

[Captain Mittens*]

r. I can think of a couple of posters on the main boards who might just commit hare-kare over the whole thing.

 

[417th]

Mia Ham Mia Ham Mia Ham--------

Your name sounds delicious!


Good god Will's Harry Karry was one of the funniest things I had ever seen.

 

[kingsfan]

Name the last NHL player that was publicly placed in the NHL substance abuse program. Zenon Konopka was the 2nd NHLer to be placed in the program publicly in May of 2014 joining Sean Hill in 2007 as the only 2 players to be in the program since the NHL changed the drug testing program. 2 players! 2! In a world where cyclists, track athletes, football players, baseball players and NBA players are popping positive left and right the NHL has 2 guys in at least 8 years of testing. So either the NHL is the cleanest sport in the world, they have the worst testing program in sports or they are hiding positive tests from the public to maintain a false image of squeaky clean country boys just playing the game.

All that shows it assuming may be misguided, not that it's guaranteed false. Richards could have been in it zero times or multiple times and we don't know is my point.

 

[Herby]

If Richards was already in a drug program then that changes things, but you would have to believe that would have leaked already.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I think Lombardi and the Kings main argument should be that they were close to trading him and it blew up because of this.

Instead of paying the regular buyout, the Kings were ready to dump him on another team, so having them pay the original buyout and penalize them for his problems is not fair. They could have traded him.

 

[onlyalad]

Did Richards, through action or inaction, harm the team?
Was that harm enough to be called a material breach?
First one is easy: yes. His action of transporting drugs(if that is what he did) followed by his inaction of not reporting the issue, they can argue that they had to end talks about a possible trade because of it. Had he notified them earlier they could have readjusted their options. The fact that at the time they found out there were two teams talking (maybe not considering) a deal is documented. Hiding this information from the team caused some degree of harm.
Is it enough to terminate a contract? In a league in which players have killed people and stayed under contract, I have no idea what it would take

 

[KINGS17]

Did Richards, through action or inaction, harm the team?
Was that harm enough to be called a material breach?
First one is easy: yes. His action of transporting drugs(if that is what he did) followed by his inaction of not reporting the issue, they can argue that they had to end talks about a possible trade because of it. Had he notified them earlier they could have readjusted their options. The fact that at the time they found out there were two teams talking (maybe not considering) a deal is documented. Hiding this information from the team caused some degree of harm.
Is it enough to terminate a contract? In a league in which players have killed people and stayed under contract, I have no idea what it would take

This is where people go wrong. It's the team's option to terminate, or not to terminate a contract. If Dany Heatly had been playing like Mike Richards had been playing last season, you can bet his contract would have been terminated.

 

[Herby]

This is where people go wrong. It's the team's option to terminate, or not to terminate a contract. If Dany Heatly had been playing like Mike Richards had been playing last season, you can bet his contract would have been terminated.

I keep telling people this and no one seems to understand this is how all businesses work, not just sports.

We all know the NY Jets released backup IK Enempkali for punching Geno Smith, well what would have happened if it were Darrelle Revis who punched him, or what if JJ Watt punched Brian Hoyer?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If Richards was already in a drug program then that changes things, but you would have to believe that would have leaked already.

And on top of that they'd have a much harder time terminating his contract because there are specific protocol to follow. Even if he had discreetly been through the first two stages, the third stage is a year suspension or something like that. So unless he stole the medicine from the team without a prescription or something, it will be hard to build around the substance.

 

[KINGS17]

I keep telling people this and no one seems to understand this is how all businesses work, not just sports.

We all know the NY Jets released backup IK Enempkali for punching Geno Smith, well what would have happened if it were Darrelle Revis who punched him, or what if JJ Watt punched Brian Hoyer?

Brian Hoyer would be hurt really bad, and noone would care?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I keep telling people this and no one seems to understand this is how all businesses work, not just sports.

We all know the NY Jets released backup IK Enempkali for punching Geno Smith, well what would have happened if it were Darrelle Revis who punched him, or what if JJ Watt punched Brian Hoyer?

Well, if JJ Watt punched Brian Hoyer, he'd be going away for murder, so.

But 100% agree. I think most of this board gets that. Just don't go to the other boards

 

[kingsfan]

Brian Hoyer would be hurt really bad, and noone would care?

They'd want Hoyer cut for hurting Watt's hand.

 

[Ron*]

This is where people go wrong. It's the team's option to terminate, or not to terminate a contract. If Dany Heatly had been playing like Mike Richards had been playing last season, you can bet his contract would have been terminated.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They'd want Hoyer cut for hurting Watt's hand.

Is that a Porky's "I broke his fist with my face" reference?

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Name the last NHL player that was publicly placed in the NHL substance abuse program. Zenon Konopka was the 2nd NHLer to be placed in the program publicly in May of 2014 joining Sean Hill in 2007 as the only 2 players to be in the program since the NHL changed the drug testing program. 2 players! 2! In a world where cyclists, track athletes, football players, baseball players and NBA players are popping positive left and right the NHL has 2 guys in at least 8 years of testing. So either the NHL is the cleanest sport in the world, they have the worst testing program in sports or they are hiding positive tests from the public to maintain a false image of squeaky clean country boys just playing the game.

Ryan Malone as well... that's three! The only reason we probably know that is because he was actually arrested for possession of cocaine and DUI.

 

[The Tikkanen]

The confidentiality is why I had previously asked Mouser if it were possible that MRs Manchester stint was actually a stage 2 suspension but unlikely

Test results will be kept confidential to the extent practicable. There will be no public announcement of any kind until the appeal process has been exhausted and the final disciplinary determination has been imposed. Once a positive test has been confirmed after appeal, the Player suspended will be identified, and it will be announced that the Player "has been suspended for violating the terms of the NHL/NHLPA Program for Performance Enhancing Substances."

The key for me is the last 3 words-Performance Enhancing Substances. I don't consider Oxy or any downer to be a PED or PES as it's worded here. So to us that means if Richards failed a test it would have been made public. But the question is does the NHL consider recreational drugs to be considered PES? Is that their little clause where they can hide players who fail a drug test for non PES and this is of course assumed that they even test for oxy or some of the other recreational drugs besides cocaine and marijuana. The longer this drags on the more it leads me to believe this situation is going to settle and all the little details we want will be kept confidential. I believe Konopka and Hill both tested positive for steroids, again, which would mean no NHL player has tested positive for recreational drugs since they changed the policy, which is a real shame and laughable.

 

[theMajor]

So either the NHL has the worst testing program in sports or they are hiding positive tests from the public to maintain a false image of squeaky clean country boys just playing the game.

I think their testing system is lacking for sure, but I think the latter is probably more likely. Given the physical abuse these guys go through night in, night out for season after season, Im positive there are a LOT more players out there that have substance abuse issues. take the Kings for example, Stoll and Richards were both caught with drugs within a span of months. think of how many other players out there are probably using either recreationally or for performance enhancing effects or just to cope with their physical degradation

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think their testing system is lacking for sure, but I think the latter is probably more likely. Given the physical abuse these guys go through night in, night out for season after season, Im positive there are a LOT more players out there that have substance abuse issues. take the Kings for example, Stoll and Richards were both caught with drugs within a span of months. think of how many other players out there are probably using either recreationally or for performance enhancing effects or just to cope with their physical degradation

And they were caught with them in hand, not in their system via testing as far as I recall.

An interesting theory I heard that jives with a lot of what we've seen is that the recreational drugs that many hockey players have been caught with--cocaine, etc.--are in and out of your system vs. something like marijuana that can stick around for a test.

Without getting too far off-topic, I'm actually surprised the Oxy/painkiller concern itself hasn't raised a bigger red flag amongst the hockey community given the situation with Boogard and other enforcers a few years back, or maybe that's yet to come when all the details that we are potentially privy to come to light.

 

[onlyalad]

This is where people go wrong. It's the team's option to terminate, or not to terminate a contract. If Dany Heatly had been playing like Mike Richards had been playing last season, you can bet his contract would have been terminated.

Not wrong just degree. While we like to think it is either against the rules or not, the reason this is going to arbitration is that it is between the rules. While it is up to a team to seek termination, there is no rule that directly says what Richards did is against the rules. (Whatever he did). Look at the Brady ruling(I know different sport). The judge said the penalty did not fall in line with penalties already in the CBA. He said that what Brady did was less of a offense than drug use. A similar ruling in this case would be devastating to the Kings ability to terminate anyone ever.

 

[theMajor]

for better or worse (in regards to the Kings) I sure hope this brings attention to drug use. Mike shares some of the blame without a doubt but I cant help thinking that his problem with drugs is a result of the abuse hes taken over the years. the NHL really needs to make an effort to help these guys to prevent players from going down that dark road

 

[tsanuri]

Not wrong just degree. While we like to think it is either against the rules or not, the reason this is going to arbitration is that it is between the rules. While it is up to a team to seek termination, there is no rule that directly says what Richards did is against the rules. (Whatever he did). Look at the Brady ruling(I know different sport). The judge said the penalty did not fall in line with penalties already in the CBA. He said that what Brady did was less of a offense than drug use. A similar ruling in this case would be devastating to the Kings ability to terminate anyone ever.

In arbitration it's almost impossible for the employer to win. It's is and always has been a long shot by the team. Using baseball, where there have been more cases. It's never happened for something off the field. The one case that was won was because the guy tried to choke the GM.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

And they were caught with them in hand, not in their system via testing as far as I recall.

An interesting theory I heard that jives with a lot of what we've seen is that the recreational drugs that many hockey players have been caught with--cocaine, etc.--are in and out of your system vs. something like marijuana that can stick around for a test.

Without getting too far off-topic, I'm actually surprised the Oxy/painkiller concern itself hasn't raised a bigger red flag amongst the hockey community given the situation with Boogard and other enforcers a few years back, or maybe that's yet to come when all the details that we are potentially privy to come to light.

From what I understand, the only recreational drug that stays in your system for any amount of time is marijuana. Unless you do random drug tests and actually watch the person give the sample, drug testing is a complete waste of time. Do a quick google search and by and large most people believe that drug testing is intrusive and often does not serve it's intended purpose.

 

[mouser]

Ryan Malone as well... that's three! The only reason we probably know that is because he was actually arrested for possession of cocaine and DUI.

There are a whole lot of players we know were in the SABH program according to public articles. I've seen: Jordin Tootoo, Ryan Malone, Mark Bell, Brant Myhres, Todd Fedoruk, Kevin Stevens, Mike Ribeiro, Ken Daneyko, Ed Belfour, Jere Karalahti, and Theo Fleury. Most likely there are many more that didn't become public.

 

[kingsfan]

for better or worse (in regards to the Kings) I sure hope this brings attention to drug use. Mike shares some of the blame without a doubt but I cant help thinking that his problem with drugs is a result of the abuse hes taken over the years. the NHL really needs to make an effort to help these guys to prevent players from going down that dark road

To do so would likely bring about a much different league and then it becomes debatable if it can draw in fans and also remain profitable.

 

[KINGS17]

for better or worse (in regards to the Kings) I sure hope this brings attention to drug use. Mike shares some of the blame without a doubt but I cant help thinking that his problem with drugs is a result of the abuse hes taken over the years. the NHL really needs to make an effort to help these guys to prevent players from going down that dark road

If the owners and players were serious they would cut the season down to something like 72 games.