Player Discussion Mike Matheson

[JianYang]

The offense has been great. I'm just hoping the defense can improve. I was really hoping he'd get to 60 points, and he's almost there.

I'd like to see some of his defensive reads and decisions of when to go for it with the puck improve.

He is what he is. The defense won't improve, but the best you can do is put him in the right chair.

If he was a 2nd pair guy on a good team, you wouldn't hear as much about his deficiencies.

 

[Mrb1p]

At any rate I think the problem with Matheson's game right now is the defensive end. I'm fine with his offensive play and his offensive numbers.

The real test over the next two years is can he take his defensive game to another level, as he's taken his offensive game.

His 5v5 play is the problem. He is flat out bad there. Does not produce enough to warrant his defensive miscues.

His PK is actually pretty good and his 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 is also good.

I can live with his PP, I just find it dumb Guhle gets absolutely no playing time there.

To me he needs to be a bottom pairing D at 5v5, he cant be taking in 18ish minutes there. His skating is good enough to make him useful at any other strength, at 5v5 the play happens too fast for him to be able to recover with skating.

 

[Mrb1p]

He is what he is. The defense won't improve, but the best you can do is put him in the right chair.

If he was a 2nd pair guy on a good team, you wouldn't hear as much about his deficiencies.

Shaving off 2 minutes off his 5v5 ice time and pairing him against second line will change very little.

 

[Rapala]

He played with Crosby, Malkin, huberdeau and Barkov?

I just realized we are actually top 7 in PP opportunities in the league.
We are also bottom 7 in PP percentage I'm not sure about goals scored but it's not much better.
Meanwhile I'm a hater when I point out Matheson is the biggest problem at this point.

 

[Mrb1p]

I just realized we are actually top 7 in PP opportunities in the league.
We are also bottom 7 in PP percentage I'm not sure about goals scored but it's not much better.
Meanwhile I'm a hater when I point out Matheson is the biggest problem at this point.

7th in GF and we lead the league in GA on the PP with 12.

 

[26Mats]

His 5v5 play is the problem. He is flat out bad there. Does not produce enough to warrant his defensive miscues.

His PK is actually pretty good and his 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 is also good.

I can live with his PP, I just find it dumb Guhle gets absolutely no playing time there.

To me he needs to be a bottom pairing D at 5v5, he cant be taking in 18ish minutes there. His skating is good enough to make him useful at any other strength, at 5v5 the play happens too fast for him to be able to recover with skating.

Matheson has 32 points outside of the pp in 78 games. That is very good offensive production for a dman.

It's his defensive game 5 on 5 that he needs to improve - the giveaways, skating the puck right into the opposition for turnovers, the bad coverage reads and gaps, etc... Can he do it? I don't know. I sure hope he can.

 

[26Mats]

He is what he is. The defense won't improve, but the best you can do is put him in the right chair.

If he was a 2nd pair guy on a good team, you wouldn't hear as much about his deficiencies.

Well his offensive game has improved. Petry's defensive game certainly improved with age.

 

[JianYang]

Well his offensive game has improved. Petry's defensive game certainly improved with age.

He's at the age now where you can't expect much more in the way of big improvements.

His offensive game had already elevated in Pittsburgh during that final season, and he just carried it forward in Montreal where he got a bigger platform.

I'd also argue that petry was good right off the bat in Montreal, coming to a better environment than Edmonton and fitting well behind dmen like Markov and subban.

Petry had a few bumps during his time but it wasn't until later in his tenure when i started seeing some warts, which I think was more injury related.

 

[26Mats]

He's at the age now where you can't expect much more in the way of big improvements.

His offensive game had already elevated in Pittsburgh during that final season, and he just carried it forward in Montreal where he got a bigger platform.

I'd also argue that petry was good right off the bat in Montreal, coming to a better environment than Edmonton and fitting well behind dmen like Markov and subban.

Petry had a few bumps during his time but it wasn't until later in his tenure when i started seeing some warts, which I think was more injury related.

He just hit 30. It certainly would be late in his career if he could improve.

But I don't think he was a finished product in Pittsburgh. He not only was given a bigger platform in Montreal, he was also now in a situation where he wasn't under pressure to win right now, as in Pittsburgh. Like Newhook had no room for error and to find his game in Colorado, it was also playing under MSL that helped him. I know Newhook is younger and is doing well defensively. But ... I think Matheson will try to be better defensively. I just don't know if he can actually improve.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Regarding the powerplay ice time argument and that anyone could do what Matheson is doing if given the role:

Matheson is 4th in powerplay ice time among defensemen.

Josi has played about 17 more min, and he only has 3 more pp points.
Hughes has played 13 more min, and he has 9 more pp points.
Makar has played 13 more min, and he has 11 more pp points.

Those 3 are the best offensive dmen in the nhl, and Matheson's pp production isn't far off, and yet people think that Guhle/Xhekaj who have never really been known for their offense would do a better job than Matheson?

 

[habbubba]

Regarding the powerplay ice time argument and that anyone could do what Matheson is doing if given the role:


View attachment 849306

Matheson is 4th in powerplay ice time among defensemen.

Josi has played about 17 more min, and he only has 3 more pp points.
Hughes has played 13 more min, and he has 9 more pp points.
Makar has played 13 more min, and he has 11 more pp points.

Those 3 are the best offensive dmen in the nhl, and Matheson's pp production isn't far off, and yet people think that Guhle/Xhekaj who have never really been known for their offense would do a better job than Matheson?

Yet people want him gone,he's a POS. Perhaps that chart will help some see what what is.

 

[Miller Time]

It has always been about managing a young Guhle's minutes.
Our power play is broken and it needs to be fixed.
If our brain-trust don't come out of this season realizing that and doing something about it I'll be pissed.
Stability alone will make us better it's as simple as that.
The rest of what Matheson brings I can live with.

I think you exaggerate Matheson's impact on our PP ...

The pens (EK, Letang), Sabres (Dahlin), Jackets (Werenski), & Hawks (Jones) all have worse pp results this year despite #1 dmen paid considerably more than Matheson.

As for the roster as a whole, I can appreciate why it's hard to be patient, but I thinks it's silly to whine about the quality of the roster. Building a contender doesn't happen overnight. The roster & cap situation that was taken over 2yrs ago was about as bad as it gets... Cap limit while being dead last, with long term commitments to declining vets.

Rome wasn't built in a day, crying about it doesn't make the process speed up

 

[Rapala]

Regarding the powerplay ice time argument and that anyone could do what Matheson is doing if given the role:


View attachment 849306

Matheson is 4th in powerplay ice time among defensemen.

Josi has played about 17 more min, and he only has 3 more pp points.
Hughes has played 13 more min, and he has 9 more pp points.
Makar has played 13 more min, and he has 11 more pp points.

Those 3 are the best offensive dmen in the nhl, and Matheson's pp production isn't far off, and yet people think that Guhle/Xhekaj who have never really been known for their offense would do a better job than Matheson?

Matheson has given up twice as many short handed goals as Josi and Makar and 4 more than Hughes or maybe those don't matter?
Short handed goals never affect the outcome of games anyway.

I find the fact that you even bother listing Karlsson who is one of the very worst defenders there is quite amusing.
Matheson has never been a PP specialist in his career until now. I can't figure out why?

 

[Rapala]

I think you exaggerate Matheson's impact on our PP ...

The pens (EK, Letang), Sabres (Dahlin), Jackets (Werenski), & Hawks (Jones) all have worse pp results this year despite #1 dmen paid considerably more than Matheson.

As for the roster as a whole, I can appreciate why it's hard to be patient, but I thinks it's silly to whine about the quality of the roster. Building a contender doesn't happen overnight. The roster & cap situation that was taken over 2yrs ago was about as bad as it gets... Cap limit while being dead last, with long term commitments to declining vets.

Rome wasn't built in a day, crying about it doesn't make the process speed up

Sorry about that I'm used to seeing obvious issues not being addressed and management trying to work around the problem instead of facing it head on.
You'll have to excuse me if I'm praying our current group isn't like that.
I don't like Matheson on the PP it's as simple as that.
This goes back to last season and nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.
I'll let you know when it does and until then I'll stay out of his thread.

But he'll continue to hear it from me in the game threads when he makes a particularly stupid decision.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Sorry about that I'm used to seeing obvious issues not being addressed and management trying to work around the problem instead of facing it head on.
You'll have to excuse me if I'm praying our current group isn't like that.
I don't like Matheson on the PP it's as simple as that.
This goes back to last season and nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.
I'll let you know when it does and until then I'll stay out of his thread.

But he'll continue to hear it from me in the game threads when he makes a particularly stupid decision.

My question is: will you be equally critical of other players who make stupid decisions? Or is this high standard applicable to only this player?

 

[Rapala]

My question is: will you be equally critical of other players who make stupid decisions? Or is this high standard applicable to only this player?

Of course I will.
I'm not one to hold back either way.
Matheson has some very good games too I'm not afraid to bring it up.
I've commended him on a number of his performances recently against some very stout opposition.
The things he did very well were mostly about staying within himself.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Matheson has given up twice as many short handed goals as Josi and Makar and 4 more than Hughes or maybe those don't matter?
Short handed goals never affect the outcome of games anyway.

So the team should focus more on defense than offense on the pp? Should put Evans and Armia on the top unit instead of Slaf and Caufield.

Also, shorthanded goals are often the result of turnovers by the forwards that lead to 2 on-1s. So not sure why you're pinning that on Matheson.

I find the fact that you even bother listing Karlsson who is one of the very worst defenders there is quite amusing.

Huh? Karlsson has been one of the most elite offensive dmen in the NHL during his career. He scored 101 pts last season lol...

Matheson has never been a PP specialist in his career until now. I can't figure out why?

When have Guhle and Xhekak been pp specialists?
Xhekaj had 5 pp points in 51 games in his last ohl season...

 

[Miller Time]

Sorry about that I'm used to seeing obvious issues not being addressed and management trying to work around the problem instead of facing it head on.
You'll have to excuse me if I'm praying our current group isn't like that.

Fair. The ptsd runs deep.

Now that you've named it, might be worth asking yourself if staying stuck in that lens adds any value to your enjoyment of following the team.

I don't like Matheson on the PP it's as simple as that.

Yes, that much is quite clear.

This goes back to last season and nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.
I'll let you know when it does and until then I'll stay out of his thread.

Bias creates thick lenses that are hard to see past, to be sure...

But he'll continue to hear it from me in the game threads when he makes a particularly stupid decision.

Bad takes abound in every thread, to je to

 

[Heffyhoof]

When have Guhle and Xhekak been pp specialists?
Xhekaj had 5 pp points in 51 games in his last ohl season...

I'm sorry, this line of reasoning doesn't jive. Most assuredly, they haven't run powerplays to a great extent and never will if never given the opportunity to do so.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I'm sorry, this line of reasoning doesn't jive. Most assuredly, they haven't run powerplays to a great extent and never will if never given the opportunity to do so.

So Xhekaj who never ran a pp to a great extent (not even in junior?) should be put on the top pp over a player who has put up great pp numbers at the NHL level? That doesn't make any sense...

 

[PavelBrendl]

Just realized that Matheson is 9th in scoring for Dmen in the NHL, and on pace to be the most productive Hab since Markov in '08-'09 and Souray in '06-'07.
If he breaks 64 pts, he'll be the most productive Habs' Dman since I can remember. Wild.

 

[Heffyhoof]

So Xhekaj who never ran a pp to a great extent (not even in junior?) should be put on the top pp over a player who has put up great pp numbers at the NHL level? That doesn't make any sense...

Normally that's a silly question, unless your team is rebuilding and that player is 30 years old and might not be a major fixture of the future contention. Now is the time to play the younger guys, mostly Guhle, to see if they have that ability or it can be nurtured. It'd be far harder to ever nurture that ability 2-3+ years of development down the line when the team wants to be competing night in and night out.

This is compounded by the fact we do have potential puck-movers coming up soon, so the chances to be an important member of a real PP will dwindle further. It's a moot point for the remainder of the season, but I'm hopeful for next season.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Regarding the powerplay ice time argument and that anyone could do what Matheson is doing if given the role:


View attachment 849306

Matheson is 4th in powerplay ice time among defensemen.

Josi has played about 17 more min, and he only has 3 more pp points.
Hughes has played 13 more min, and he has 9 more pp points.
Makar has played 13 more min, and he has 11 more pp points.

Those 3 are the best offensive dmen in the nhl, and Matheson's pp production isn't far off, and yet people think that Guhle/Xhekaj who have never really been known for their offense would do a better job than Matheson?

In the real world, where Cap implications, affect all personnel decisions, it is interesting to note that for 2023/2024 season: Josi's Cap hit is $9,059,000; Hughes' Cap hit is $7,850,000; Makar's Cap hit is $9,000,000 and Karlsson's Cap hit is $10,000,000.

Matheson's Cap hit is $4,875,000.

There isn't a team in the NHL that wouldn't gladly take Matheson at that cost, defensive warts and all.

 

[Tyson]

In the real world, where Cap implications, affect all personnel decisions, it is interesting to note that for 2023/2024 season: Josi's Cap hit is $9,059,000; Hughes' Cap hit is $7,850,000; Makar's Cap hit is $9,000,000 and Karlsson's Cap hit is $10,000,000.

Matheson's Cap hit is $4,875,000.

There isn't a team in the NHL that wouldn't gladly take Matheson at that cost, defensive warts and all.

Don't Forget Darnell Nurse's low cap hit

 

[JT3]

Matheson's brain cramps frustrate me as much as the next person, but he's still a good player on an excellent contract. If the goal is to take a step forward next season then Matheson is a part of that equation, we won't be going anywhere with a left side of 3 U24 defensemen.

Ideally he eventually becomes a real good 2nd pair dman for us or trade bait, but we aren't close to being there yet.