Player Discussion Mike Matheson

[Habs]

Whenever Buttons says 'Michael Matheson' I want to light myself on fire, and jump into a wood chipper.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Yes he's having a very good season point wise, that i already knew but dont know why you quote me you did not adress one point of my post.

All i said is being in a devlopment year we should give more offensive responsabilities to guy's like Ghule, wich we did the last 3 games by the way, about time, hope it continue

I was responding more generally but the same thing applies, I don't really see Guhle or Xhekaj as guys we'll likely build PP1 around and Matheson's production is just too good to take him off IMO. It would be one thing if he were on pace for 40 points and just having an OK run on the PP but when a guy's top 10 there I don't think it's realistic to just take him off the top unit for guys like Xhekaj/Guhle, especially when Matheson's still only 30 with two years left on his contract

I understand the argument that Matheson won't be around when we're competing while those guys might be, but I think that's a bit speculative (I hope he's not extended but it's entirely plausible we're competitive in 3-4 years and a 33-34 year old Matheson is still around), and you kinda owe it to the forwards to keep the guy who's producing on the top unit as well.

Matheson himself is also a good example of how these kinds of things aren't set in stone forever. He only broke 30P once before coming to the Habs, was always blocked from PP1 by Ekblad and Letang, and he's now been on a ~55P/82GP pace since he got traded here and grown into the PP1 role. I don't think a skater as gifted as Guhle would have trouble figuring it out if he ends up as the PP1 guy in a couple years even if I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 PP QB (for what it's worth I don't think Matheson is either, but it's pro sports and results are results).

 

[teamfirst]

I was responding more generally but the same thing applies, I don't really see Guhle or Xhekaj as guys we'll likely build PP1 around and Matheson's production is just too good to take him off IMO. It would be one thing if he were on pace for 40 points and just having an OK run on the PP but when a guy's top 10 there I don't think it's realistic to just take him off the top unit for guys like Xhekaj/Guhle, especially when Matheson's still only 30 with two years left on his contract

I understand the argument that Matheson won't be around when we're competing while those guys might be, but I think that's a bit speculative (I hope he's not extended but it's entirely plausible we're competitive in 3-4 years and a 33-34 year old Matheson is still around), and you kinda owe it to the forwards to keep the guy who's producing on the top unit as well.

Matheson himself is also a good example of how these kinds of things aren't set in stone forever. He only broke 30P once before coming to the Habs, was always blocked from PP1 by Ekblad and Letang, and he's now been on a ~55P/82GP pace since he got traded here and grown into the PP1 role. I don't think a skater as gifted as Guhle would have trouble figuring it out if he ends up as the PP1 guy in a couple years even if I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 PP QB (for what it's worth I don't think Matheson is either, but it's pro sports and results are results).

Makes sense to view it this way, i'm of a different opinion tho i think we have alot of good young D comin in and i dont see Matheson being part of this group after is contract is over, thats why i would like to see more opportunities to the young guy's.

It's nothing against the guy, i mean he seems like a good guy want to play here and all but long term i just dont see it.

 

[Rapala]

I was responding more generally but the same thing applies, I don't really see Guhle or Xhekaj as guys we'll likely build PP1 around and Matheson's production is just too good to take him off IMO. It would be one thing if he were on pace for 40 points and just having an OK run on the PP but when a guy's top 10 there I don't think it's realistic to just take him off the top unit for guys like Xhekaj/Guhle, especially when Matheson's still only 30 with two years left on his contract

I understand the argument that Matheson won't be around when we're competing while those guys might be, but I think that's a bit speculative (I hope he's not extended but it's entirely plausible we're competitive in 3-4 years and a 33-34 year old Matheson is still around), and you kinda owe it to the forwards to keep the guy who's producing on the top unit as well.

Matheson himself is also a good example of how these kinds of things aren't set in stone forever. He only broke 30P once before coming to the Habs, was always blocked from PP1 by Ekblad and Letang, and he's now been on a ~55P/82GP pace since he got traded here and grown into the PP1 role. I don't think a skater as gifted as Guhle would have trouble figuring it out if he ends up as the PP1 guy in a couple years even if I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 PP QB (for what it's worth I don't think Matheson is either, but it's pro sports and results are results).

Here is the thing that gets me. We don't know that because we have never tried anyone but Matheson in that situation.
Actually we did once. Justin Barron took his spot when Matheson and Lowrie took coincidental penalties in OT.
Barron scored the 4v3 OT winner seconds after the ensuing face off.
Personally I think both Guhle and Xhekaj not only dish the puck better than Matheson but they hold the line better than Mike Matheson.
While Matheson can be more elusive I think we can actually score more goals by keeping more plays alive for longer stretches.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Here is the thing that gets me. We don't know that because we have never tried anyone but Matheson in that situation.
Actually we did once. Justin Barron took his spot when Matheson and Lowrie took coincidental penalties in OT.
Barron scored the 4v3 OT winner seconds after the ensuing face off.
Personally I think both Guhle and Xhekaj not only dish the puck better than Matheson but they hold the line better than Mike Matheson.
While Matheson can be more elusive I think we can actually score more goals by keeping more plays alive for longer stretches.

We've seen Guhle, Xhekaj and Barron on pp2, and they haven't been particularly noticeable.
Matheson makes bad plays at times, but he also makes a lot of high-end plays that the others wouldn't be able to.

 

[Rapala]

We've seen Guhle, Xhekaj and Barron on pp2, and they haven't been particularly noticeable.
Matheson makes bad plays at times, but he also makes a lot of high-end plays that the others wouldn't be able to.

Yeah our PP 2 is a such a benchmark.
Not to mention the fact that there were a number of games throughout the season when our PP2 was actually executing better.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Yeah our PP 2 is a such a benchmark.

A player can still make good plays even if the unit is bad.
Matheson on pp2 would be a lot more noticeable than Guhle/Xhekaj.

Guhle/Xhekaj on the pp have just been making basic plays. There hasn't been much creativity in what they do. Matheson, on the other hand, often uses his elite skating ability to make plays and create separation.

 

[Rapala]

A player can still make good plays even if the unit is bad.
Matheson on pp2 would be a lot more noticeable than Guhle/Xhekaj.

Guhle/Xhekaj on the pp have just been making basic plays. There hasn't been much creativity in what they do. Matheson, on the other hand, often uses his elite skating ability to make plays and create separation.

And you are saying they haven't which is pure fantasy.
Both Xhekaj and Guhle have shown some very good traits on the PP.
The steady solid mistake free puck movement will benefit the PP far more than the occasional Bobby Orr move.
I get it it's not as exciting but I truly believe the latter will result in much better production.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

And you are saying they haven't which is pure fantasy.
Both Xhekaj and Guhle have shown some very good traits on the PP.
The steady solid mistake free puck movement will benefit the PP far more than the occasional Bobby Orr move.
I get it it's not as exciting but I truly believe the latter will result in much better production.

Absolutely not. The habs pp need to be more creative, not less. This has been the biggest criticism of the habs pp since Markov/Subban left.

All the top powerplays in the league have defensemen who can make creative high-end plays. Matheson is by far the closest thing we have of that in the lineup.

Also, Matheson only played 48 games last season. So we did see Xhekaj/Barron/Guhle on pp1.

 

[Rapala]

Absolutely not. The habs pp need to be more creative, not less. This has been the biggest criticism of the habs pp since Markov/Subban left.

All the top powerplays in the league have defensemen who can make creative high-end plays. Matheson is by far the closest thing we have of that in the lineup.

Also, Matheson only played 48 games last season. So we did see Xhekaj/Barron/Guhle on pp1.

Dude Do you even watch hockey?
Matheson's faults are well documented.
Poor play selection poor puck distribution and telegraphing. Inability to keep plays alive and or hold the line.
Our PP is currently at 17% and trending downwards so what gives?
There is no creativity in him that will overcome these faults.
Better faster puck movement better decision making and more plays kept alive will certainly create more chances.
Getting the puck into Suzuki or Slafkovsky's hands with more time and space will create more chances.
Better puck control while tiring defenders and creating huge lanes will result in more scoring chances.

There is a reason this fan base is waiting on Lane Hutson you know.
In the meantime there are clearly better options that we choose not to use.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Dude Do you even watch hockey?
Matheson's faults are well documented.
Poor play selection poor puck distribution and telegraphing. Inability to keep plays alive and hold the line.

Matheson is pretty good at keeping plays alive. He just has issues handling the puck sometimes.
Among the faults you listed, do you realize that Guhle/Xhekaj haven't really shown to be better at them than Matheson? At best, Guhle/Xhekaj are slightly better at those Matheson's fault, which is nowhere near enough to make up for what Matheson is better at than them.

Our PP is currently at 17% and trending downwards so what gives?
There is no creativity in him that will overcome these faults.
Better faster puck movement better decision making and more plays kept alive will certainly create more chances.
Getting the puck into Suzuki or Slafkovsky's hands with more time and space will create more chances.
Better puck control while tiring defenders and creating huge lanes will result in more scoring chances.

Faster puck movement? Again, Guhle and Xhekaj haven't shown to move the puck faster than Matheson. They also won't create more space for the forwards since the defenders will know that they are not a threat and making simple passes to move the puck around won't tire out the defenders.

There is a reason this fan base is waiting on Lane Hutson you know.

Yea because Hutson is capable of doing the good of Matheson without the bad. Not because he plays a simple game...

In the meantime there are clearly better options that we choose not to use.

Players with barely any pp points are clearly better options than the one who's currently 8th in the NHL in pp points among defensemen and who's tracking to be the highest-scoring pp dman on the habs since Markov in 2008-2009?

 

[Trabdy2]

Mike Matheson has flaws in his defensive game and he does get exposed at times, but he really does drive a lot of our offence with his skating and passing and he's been one of the better producing dmen in the NHL this year (11th in points, 9th in PP points, among all defencemen).

The reality is that Matheson is probably playing out of his "chair". He shouldn't be facing off against opposing teams' top lines and playing 25+ minutes a night, but at the moment we don't really have any other options. Ideally he'd be playing less time and matched up against lower quality opposition where he would get exposed less defensively and be able to use his offensive skills more effectively.

As a fanbase, we have a lot of excitement for Lane Hutson and the offensive flair he could potentially bring to this lineup. But he also has flaws that will likely leave him exposed at times against top NHL competition when he makes it (not the best skater, small in stature, limited reach). We will have to see how his development turns out.

For my part, it's hard for me to be simultaneously disappointed with Matheson's play and also excited for Hutson. With how I project Lane Hutson, I don't think that 25 minutes a game against top lines will be a recipe for success in the NHL playoffs, even if paired with a stellar D partner.

 

[Rapala]

Matheson is pretty good at keeping plays alive. He just has issues handling the puck sometimes.
Among the faults you listed, do you realize that Guhle/Xhekaj haven't really shown to be better at them than Matheson? At best, Guhle/Xhekaj are slightly better at those Matheson's fault, which is nowhere near enough to make up for what Matheson is better at than them.

Matheson is Shit at keeping plays alive and horrible at pinching the boards.
You let me know when you've seen either Xhekaj or Guhle out there with our talented forwards.
They are my favorite pairing with our first line 5v5 AINEC.
You let me know when Matheson shows better vision than than either of those guys 5v5.
Matheson's best trait his skating doesn't even get used on our PP.

Faster puck movement? Again, Guhle and Xhekaj haven't shown to move the puck faster than Matheson. They also won't create more space for the forwards since the defenders will know that they are not a threat and making simple passes to move the puck around won't tire out the defenders.

So this is where you think my post rings false that neither Guhle or Xhekaj move the puck faster and are not a threat offensively.
Making simple passes and moving the box around will certainly tire out defenders teams do it to us all the time.
What won't tire them out is a poor shot with no traffic a bobbled puck creating a turnover and a missed opportunity to hold the line.

Players with barely any pp points are clearly better options than the one who's currently 8th in the NHL in pp points among defensemen and who's tracking to be the highest-scoring pp dman on the habs since Markov in 2008-2009?

Yup it's clearly helping this team win games.
The PP isn't about one player the fact that Matheson gets so many touches is why his numbers are that high.
Both the guys I mentioned could easily have those same stats without the gaffes.
They both have better vision and they both execute at a higher level.
Maybe you just don't see it as clearly as I do which is fine.

 

[Mrb1p]

We've seen Guhle, Xhekaj and Barron on pp2, and they haven't been particularly noticeable.
Matheson makes bad plays at times, but he also makes a lot of high-end plays that the others wouldn't be able to.

Guhle has 14 mintues of PP time on the season, that averages to under 20 seconds a game. Thats just a blatant lie, he's never been used on the PP.

Last game against the Kraken was actually the first shift Ive seen him take on the PP, and you know what ? The 2nd PP with Andy, Gally, Evans, RHP got a two great chances in 1 minutes of play lol. Who woulda thunk it.

Mike Matheson has flaws in his defensive game and he does get exposed at times, but he really does drive a lot of our offence with his skating and passing and he's been one of the better producing dmen in the NHL this year (11th in points, 9th in PP points, among all defencemen).

The reality is that Matheson is probably playing out of his "chair". He shouldn't be facing off against opposing teams' top lines and playing 25+ minutes a night, but at the moment we don't really have any other options. Ideally he'd be playing less time and matched up against lower quality opposition where he would get exposed less defensively and be able to use his offensive skills more effectively.

As a fanbase, we have a lot of excitement for Lane Hutson and the offensive flair he could potentially bring to this lineup. But he also has flaws that will likely leave him exposed at times against top NHL competition when he makes it (not the best skater, small in stature, limited reach). We will have to see how his development turns out.

For my part, it's hard for me to be simultaneously disappointed with Matheson's play and also excited for Hutson. With how I project Lane Hutson, I don't think that 25 minutes a game against top lines will be a recipe for success in the NHL playoffs, even if paired with a stellar D partner.

If the bolded is true why does he have less 5v5 points than both Savard and Guhle and only 4 more points than Barron, who's been gone for months now?
Savard played 48 games and he has 2 more 5v5 points than Bobby Orr, Im thinking maybe there's a misevaluation somewhere and people should stop relying on DB scouting. He gets A LOT of gimme points. His A2 numbers are high, and he's got 9 points at 4 on 4 or 3 on 3. He's a weapon there it seems, because that's where his production explodes.

In 1247 minutes of ice time at 5 on 5 he has 14 points.
In 248 minutes of ice time at 5 on 4 he has 23 points.
In 92 minutes of ice time at 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 he has 9 points.
In 70 minutes of 4 on 5 he has 1 point.


Reality is he produces like crazy when it's easy to produce and he doesn't when it's harder to produce. He doesn't drive the offense, at least not the offense that needs to be driven.

 

[OldCraig71]

Whenever Buttons says 'Michael Matheson' I want to light myself on fire, and jump into a wood chipper.

You wouldn't even burn so don't make me get my hopes up that such a thing could happen.

 

[Habs]

You wouldn't even burn so don't make me get my hopes up that such a thing could happen.

The Holy Water bubbles when I touch it

 

[overlords]

The Holy Water bubbles when I touch it

 

[OldCraig71]

The Holy Water bubbles when I touch it

Jesus, that's something else for you to complain about.

Craig Button is dressed by Goodwill Denver tonight.

 

[Tyson]

43 seconds in and Mac extends his home streak to 35 games. What a talent

 

[Heffyhoof]

It's gotten so blatant one of the reporters who love stirring the pot should ask him why he refuses to even look at Slaf, let alone pass to him on the PP. Can't wait for this clown to be traded.

 

[Miller Time]

27min against best in the league offense... 19min at ES...

They put up 1 goal, 28 shots.

That's a pretty solid day at the office.

Haters gonna hate, but Matheson is giving this team great value at his cap hit, and the experience he's gaining will serve him & us well as he eventually slides into a #2 or perhaps even #3 role over the next 2 seasons.

Great pick up by KH

 

[JianYang]

With respect to Matheson, it all depends on the state of development of the cadre of young defencemen we are hoping will be major contributors over the coming years .

For Matheson, he will have no shortage of suitors, even if he is expecting to receive the then prevailing market salary for a mobile, high usage defenceman. Matheson has professed a willingness to play in Montreal. A rare attribute that will also play a determining role in the team's ultimate decision of whether or not to retain this important player. Will Montreal have the ability to attract other high value defencemen? We have had little success in this regard in the past

If Matheson retains his current level of performance, I can't see Montreal's management not retaining this team leader. Too many factors militate against that decision.

There has been some high profile cases lately of the cra challenging some of the tax reporting of professional athletes.

It will only make things more difficult for canadian teams to be compeitive if the athletes decide to avoid the headache altogether.

 

[Nicko999]

After more than 2 years, a Kent Hughes acquired player has hit the 50 pts mark.
Matheson also became the first Hughes era player to hit 40 pts earlier this season (since joined by Slaf).

 

[Rapala]

Not much to complain about these last 4 or 5 games.
Just the one rush last night where he tried his 1v5 and refused to pass the puck.
Turned it over and then lost an edge trying to turn back in the typical MM fashion.
I did like his EN helper where he did pass the puck to Armia.

I still like Guhle's decision making far more when he decides to go.
He takes the puck to the net gets a solid shot off ON target without jeopardizing the team.
Kaiden Guhle will rarely put his team in trouble in these situations.

 

[habbubba]

One of the easiest 3 point nights at the office you'll ever see, Still don't get all the hate,are all the haters on Matheson the same that hated Subban?