Speculation: #Melnkyout...The time is NOW!

[topshelf15]

Well, SOMETHING is for sure going to get built on that land.

Soil remediation is going to happen one way or the other, whether it's an arena that goes up on that site, or residential towers, or office space, or a bajillon museums, or the world's largest goldfish aquarium.

That land is getting developed, 100%. We just don't know by who yet.

I believe it will be an arena with the team being there,there really isnt anything else that makes sense....Kanata was a huge field,while developers built a golf course trying to drum up interest..It really took off when the arena was built there...

The downtown core needs to start expanding both east and west to start filling in the gaps,the LRT has been built to partly facilitate this,but its going to cost more money to really bring it online ...Which is why ridership needs to be high,and having a premium destination is a must...The team going anywhere else than to Lebreton isnt really viable , to the team city and the feds...IMHO

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Add in the Feds that have just spent billions on the LRT ,it will happen ...

Also spending billions on the LRT to CTC.

 

[BonkTastic]

The issue is PWC say that there is not enough growth in Ottawa to sustain the density above the original plan.

I think the real issue is that there's no concensus on this issue.

PWC is one of many reports that have been done on LeBreton, and most of the reports conflict with eachother.

I'll say this much - it's not hard to produce a report of this nature that is leaning in the specific direction you want it to lean in if you're the one paying for the study. It's unfortunately the sad state of research in North America, and it's not limited to things like financial developmental viability - scientific research is trending in the same way. It's not at all a unique phenomenon.

The question is whose study is accurate. Melnyk has one by PWC that says one thing. Trinity has one from Urbanation that says another. I'm sure the NCC and the city have done their own as well, probably from alternate sources. I'd honestly be very interested to see any reports done by the city and NCC at this point - I imagine both Melnyk's and Ruddy's studies both have some compromising elements to them.

I'd also like to actually read both of them.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think the real issue is that there's no concensus on this issue.

PWC is one of many reports that have been done on LeBreton, and most of the reports conflict with eachother.

I'll say this much - it's not hard to produce a report of this nature that is leaning in the specific direction you want it to lean in if you're the one paying for the study. It's unfortunately the sad state of research in North America, and it's not limited to things like financial developmental viability - scientific research is trending in the same way. It's not at all a unique phenomenon.

The question is whose study is accurate. Melnyk has one by PWC that says one thing. Trinity has one from Urbanation that says another. I'm sure the NCC and the city have done their own as well, probably from alternate sources. I'd honestly be very interested to see any reports done by the city and NCC at this point - I imagine both Melnyk's and Ruddy's studies both have some compromising elements to them.

I'd also like to actually read both of them.

PWC is a reliable consultancy used by big businesses. Urbanation is not so much.

PricewaterhouseCoopers is a multinational professional services network headquartered in London, United Kingdom. PwC ranks as the second largest professional services firm in the world behind Deloitte, and is one of the Big Four auditors, along with Deloitte, EY and KPMG.

From Urbanation

Urbanation is the authoritative source for information on Toronto's condominium market. No matter the questions, we've got the answers.

FACT CHECK - About Urbanation | Urbanation

This being said, this is why the lawsuit will not get thrown out so easily.

 

[GCK]

Agreed, partially. I would prefer a big built up area around the arena though. The RVL site would have that. The issue is PWC say that there is not enough growth in Ottawa to sustain the density above the original plan. Hence the lawsuit. The stupidity of melnyk not working it out earlier is the issue. It seems the deal was broken along time ago.

Field of broken dreams: The inside story of how Ottawa’s $4B landmark development deal fell to pieces

Both the consultation reports have holes. They both say 10000 planned units downtown in the next decade. History shows a number of those will be delayed until demand is high. Once LRT is up and running and Lebreton starts demand will shift to that area. The consultation reports both imply that demand will be equal across downtown which is false.

 

[BonkTastic]

PWC is a reliable consultancy used by big businesses. Urbanation is not so much.

PricewaterhouseCoopers is a multinational professional services network headquartered in London, United Kingdom. PwC ranks as the second largest professional services firm in the world behind Deloitte, and is one of the Big Four auditors, along with Deloitte, EY and KPMG.

From Urbanation

Urbanation is the authoritative source for information on Toronto's condominium market. No matter the questions, we've got the answers.

This being said, this is why the lawsuit will not get thrown out so easily.

I know exactly who both organizations are. If you are going by a company's self-written autobiography, you're not going to get any real answers, just PR.

Go look up PWC's involvement with Tesco, Bank of Tokyo, Tyco, Taylor Bean, etc... Being internatioanlly large does not mean that you are infallible. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I'm sure Urbanation has their fare share of... inconsistentices as well. I'm trying to say I wouldn't trust either report as being 100% accurate. I'm not ranking them, here.

 

[topshelf15]

Also spending billions on the LRT to CTC.

Exactly my point ,the LRT needs ridership to help offset the enormous cost of building it...A brand new downtown arena along with new condos and more will bring in far far more dollars than it would in Kanata

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I know exactly who both organizations are. If you are going by a company's self-written autobiography, you're not going to get any real answers, just PR.

Go look up PWC's involvement with Tesco, Bank of Tokyo, Tyco, Taylor Bean, etc... Being internatioanlly large does not mean that you are infallible. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I'm sure Urbanation has their fare share of... inconsistentices as well. I'm trying to say I wouldn't trust either report as being 100% accurate. I'm not ranking them, here.

Sure. But the fact I am trying to make is one is a trusted source globally for business, the other is small potatoes

 

[Sun God Nika]

wait i'm confused isn't it municipal that spent on LRT not the feds?

 

[BonkTastic]

Sure. But the fact I am trying to make is one is a trusted source globally for business, the other is small potatoes

Sure. One is bigger than the other, with a much longer history. No one would ever argue you on that point.

I don't see how that fact means we should be trusting one over the other, or either of them for that matter, without ever having seen them. If a larger company were able to rest on it's laurels due to it's size and history and never allow their work to stand against review, that would present a dangerous precedent. Similarly, if a smaller organization were never given the chance to at the very least present their findings, then that creates a very oligarchic structure to the industry as a whole that isn't healthy either.

I think simply asking to make the reports public and consumable before making value claims on those same reports themselves isn't an unreasonable ask, here.

 

[topshelf15]

wait i'm confused isn't it municipal that spent on LRT not the feds?

No,they dont have the billions it has taken to build it

 

[BonkTastic]

wait i'm confused isn't it municipal that spent on LRT not the feds?

Between Phase 1 and 2 of the project, Feds are investing close to $2bil in Ottawa's LRT.

Provincial government also contributed over $1bil on Phase 1.

 

[GCK]

Between Phase 1 and 2 of the project, Feds are investing close to $2bil in Ottawa's LRT.

Provincial government also contributed over $1bil on Phase 1.

Phas3 to Kanata is not funded and is planned for 2031.

 

[JD1]

Sure. One is bigger than the other, with a much longer history. No one would ever argue you on that point.

I don't see how that fact means we should be trusting one over the other, or either of them for that matter, without ever having seen them. If a larger company were able to rest on it's laurels due to it's size and history and never allow their work to stand against review, that would present a dangerous precedent. Similarly, if a smaller organization were never given the chance to at the very least present their findings, then that creates a very oligarchic structure to the industry as a whole that isn't healthy either.

I think simply asking to make the reports public and consumable before making value claims on those same reports themselves isn't an unreasonable ask, here.

I think your request to view the reports is reasonable but not likely to happen in the near term.

I will say, having spent 20 + years in the consulting industry that opinions are for sale but it'd be a lot easier to buy the opinion of the small Toronto firm

 

[GCK]

I think your request to view the reports is reasonable but not likely to happen in the near term.

I will say, having spent 20 + years in the consulting industry that opinions are for sale but it'd be a lot easier to buy the opinion of the small Toronto firm

Just to be clear RVL used Urbanation for the 2015 report that was all fine with both CSMI and Trinity.

 

[armani]

Heard from someone within the organization that the "dictator to democracy" quote to CJ. Stevenson (and Andy wanting to leave in the summer) supposedly came from Borowieicki, fwiw. No written source I can attribute this to. Just sharing what I heard.

 

[GCK]

Heard from someone within the organization that the "dictator to democracy" quote to CJ. Stevenson (and Andy wanting to leave in the summer) supposedly came from Borowieicki, fwiw. No written source I can attribute this to. Just sharing what I heard.

So it wasn’t made up by CJ. Anderson did confirm that he asked to be moved if the drama was going to continue.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Heard from someone within the organization that the "dictator to democracy" quote to CJ. Stevenson (and Andy wanting to leave in the summer) supposedly came from Borowieicki, fwiw. No written source I can attribute this to. Just sharing what I heard.

Wouldn't surprise me if it was Boro who said that.

He's got a chip on the shoulder now since being anointed the Sens go to media guy.

 

[JD1]

Just to be clear RVL used Urbanation for the 2015 report that was all fine with both CSMI and Trinity.

yep.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[coladin]

I agree. I wonder if ‘the plan’was to build the new arena and then sell. Value for team and arena would be a lot higher. Now the entire thing could be down the tubes.

I don't think it is on jeopardy. It just won't be as good as it should be. We have been driving our there for decades, and the last widening of the 417 will help even more than it is now. The arena is still very good.

No matter what, it is going to be at least 5 years at this stage anyways. Having the hope of Lebreton may give everyone something to look forward to in the meantime.

The only thing that will jeopardize the franchise is revenues.

 

[asw]

We live in the outskirts of Ottawa and a new arena on Lebreton flats would not shorten the time it takes for us to get to a game. In fact, having to take the LRT might take longer. We have been going to Kanata for many years and it's not a big deal. The main problem is the parking issue and the long time it takes to get out of the parking lot at the end of the game when the attendance is high. If they could make that quicker and easier at the current location I would have no problem with the team staying there. I realize that this is not the case for many people but it is for us.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Heard from someone within the organization that the "dictator to democracy" quote to CJ. Stevenson (and Andy wanting to leave in the summer) supposedly came from Borowieicki, fwiw. No written source I can attribute this to. Just sharing what I heard.

Now that the dictator is gone Boro can deservedly get his top 4 minutes.

 

[JungleBeat]

Heard from someone within the organization that the "dictator to democracy" quote to CJ. Stevenson (and Andy wanting to leave in the summer) supposedly came from Borowieicki, fwiw. No written source I can attribute this to. Just sharing what I heard.

Definitely more believable than Wideman saying those comments. Borowiecki loves opening his mouth even though he’s the worst player on the team.

 

[aragorn]

Heard from someone within the organization that the "dictator to democracy" quote to CJ. Stevenson (and Andy wanting to leave in the summer) supposedly came from Borowieicki, fwiw. No written source I can attribute this to. Just sharing what I heard.

Just another example that the problems in the room wrongly or rightly surrounded EK but of course everyone will shit on Boro for telling the truth about the golden boy. I doubt it would make any difference who said it, people will shit on anyone who says anything about him, regardless if it is true.

They also lost two great Slovaks (Hossa & Chara) because of money & the same owner. We should have a poll Slovaks or Swedes? If I had a choice I'd take the Slovaks over the Swedes but I'm quite sure the Swedes would win on this board.