Meier knee Necas

[NyQuil]

Ovechkin turns his body to lead with his shoulder. Are you for real??

Yeah and if Meier had done that, we wouldn’t be sitting here arguing about it.

Meier misses with the shoulder and the leg ends up colliding first instead.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Oh, so which is it? The broadcasters reflect the coaches or the other way around? This is hilarious stuff. Again, you keep cycling between the two arguments about in-group tendencies and broadcasters implanting narrative arcs in people's heads.

Is this supposed to be some sort of “gotcha”?

Yes, Devils fans and broadcasters share the same in-group tendency as the Devils coaches and players. It’s literally a fandom attached to a brand.

If your initial argument was "fans and team-affiliated people" are biased, great. It would have the same level of informational value as saying "grass is green", but hey, at least it would be cogent. Trying to spin this as some long-winded transitive process from broadcaster to fan is comical. We saw what we saw, and we aren't the only ones, much as you'd like to pretend that's the case.

Well, the observation was simply that the Devils fans who decided to die on this particular internet hill were getting their perspective entirely from the way their team’s broadcast built a Jack Edwards esque moral narrative around the last 10 minutes of that game (conveniently making this about a guy not being injured enough for their satisfaction, rather than about their team imploding in a game they were favored to win).

Later in the thread someone brought up the coaches and players parroting the same narrative, which rightfully got mocked as a “counterpoint”.

This is how conversations work sometimes. People get attached a dumb idea that conveniently supports their biases, then they reach for any weak evidence they can find to support it so they don’t have to do the hard work of walking it back.

Again, imagine a Rangers broadcast saying “that Trouba hit was actually pretty clean” and a bunch of Rangers fans flooding the internet to parrot that point. Then when they get mocked by the rest of the league, they bring up that Rangers coaches and players are also defending Trouba. That’s the argumentative level that you’re at right now. It’s a bad look, but also completely consistent with how fanbases behave when they’re mad. So go off, I guess.

I find that pretty hard to believe about the Canes broadcasters considering posters in this thread were already mentioning they were campaigning for a major on Haula's hit. They managed to purse their lips with Necas laying on the ice? Interesting.

I mean, the broadcast is available online. It’s easy enough to get out of your bubble and watch it.

Here's three right off the bat quickly cycling through the thread:


But who's to say, they may all have been watching the Devils broadcast.

Only the last of those (which is the one I referred to earlier) directly said they felt Necas took a dive. The other two were airing grievances from other games. I’ll leave it to them if they want to put on clown shoes and go down that path, but otherwise you have one guy who thought it was a dive, other than the one who thought it was a major penalty even if it was milked.

So… one guy who agrees with your position. On the internet, that’s a dismal performance.

Edit: And as a follow up to your "group psychology" point, which I'm sure you've also seen, I took a quick gander at your GDT and you have multiple different people on your board celebrating (seriously) Haula's wife's miscarriage. So this is clearly a phenomenon that hasn't escaped the Canes fandom.

Obviously anyone celebrating a personal tragedy is going too far and letting competitive bias go to their heads.

See? That’s not so hard.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Yeah and if Meier had done that, we wouldn’t be sitting here arguing about it.

He did. That's why his left side was tilted forward from his right. If Necas doesn't alter his entire body he makes contact with his left shoulder instead of his knee on Necas thigh.

In your Karlsson example, he would have still made body contact and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Stickpucker]

Deleted someone showed a good angle.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Of course it was.

Saying that no suspension was allocated proves it wasn’t a penalty is the height of lunacy.

You haven’t made a single good point in any of your posts. Meier led with his shoulder and took a good angle. Necas’s last minute move caused the Knee contact. Who had the puck is completely irrelevant if it’s the player with the puck who causes the knee contact. Meier didn’t stick his knee out or change his angle at all.

 

[NyQuil]

He did. That's why his left side was tilted forward from his right. If Necas doesn't alter his entire body he makes contact with his left shoulder instead of his knee on Necas thigh.

In your Karlsson example, he would have still made body contact and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The point is that he missed.

I never claimed that Meier went out there to destroy his knee. In fact I said the exact opposite.

Open hits are risky and dangerous so you’d better not miss.

You haven’t made a single good point in any of your posts. Meier led with his shoulder and took a good angle. Necas’s last minute move caused the Knee contact. Who had the puck is completely irrelevant if it’s the player with the puck who causes the knee contact. Meier didn’t stick his knee out or change his angle at all.

If he had executed it properly, Necas wouldn’t have been able to make a last minute move to avoid it.

It was poorly timed and executed.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

The point is that he missed.

I never claimed that Meier went out there to destroy his knee. In fact I said the exact opposite.

Open hits are risky and dangerous so you’d better not miss.

In terms of the penalty it doesn’t matter whatsoever that he missed if he took a good angle, led with his shoulder, and did the right thing. Which he absolutely did.

Necas caused the knee contact.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Is this supposed to be some sort of “gotcha”?

Yes, Devils fans and broadcasters share the same in-group tendency as the Devils coaches and players. It’s literally a fandom attached to a brand.




Well, the observation was simply that the Devils fans who decided to die on this particular internet hill were getting their perspective entirely from the way their team’s broadcast built a Jack Edwards esque moral narrative around the last 10 minutes of that game (conveniently making this about a guy not being injured enough for their satisfaction, rather than about their team imploding in a game they were favored to win).

Later in the thread someone brought up the coaches and players parroting the same narrative, which rightfully got mocked as a “counterpoint”.

This is how conversations work sometimes. People get attached a dumb idea that conveniently supports their biases, then they reach for any weak evidence they can find to support it so they don’t have to do the hard work of walking it back.

Again, imagine a Rangers broadcast saying “that Trouba hit was actually pretty clean” and a bunch of Rangers fans flooding the internet to parrot that point. Then when they get mocked by the rest of the league, they bring up that Rangers coaches and players are also defending Trouba. That’s the argumentative level that you’re at right now. It’s a bad look, but also completely consistent with how fanbases behave when they’re mad. So go off, I guess.



I mean, the broadcast is available online. It’s easy enough to get out of your bubble and watch it.



Only the last of those (which is the one I referred to earlier) directly said they felt Necas took a dive. The other two were airing grievances from other games. I’ll leave it to them if they want to put on clown shoes and go down that path, but otherwise you have one guy who thought it was a dive, other than the one who thought it was a major penalty even if it was milked.

So… one guy who agrees with your position. On the internet, that’s a dismal performance.



Obviously anyone celebrating a personal tragedy is going too far and letting competitive bias go to their heads.

See? That’s not so hard.

Your whole problem is attaching this conjured idea of causality from broadcasters directly to fans. As much as you'd like your little theory to be unassailable truth, there's zero basis to saying anyone got their ideas from broadcasters, be they Rangers, Devils, or Canes fans.

The other two were very clearly intimating this was a dive. There would be zero utility to talking about Canes players diving in other games otherwise.

If you want your whole point to be fans and team-affiliated broadcasters/equipment managers/coachers are biased, well hey, very cool. Again, not breaking any new ground so much as acting like you discovered the Statue of Liberty when you're flying in to Newark airport.

 

[NyQuil]

In terms of the penalty it doesn’t matter whatsoever that he missed if he took a good angle, led with his shoulder, and did the right thing. Which he absolutely did.

It’s not a penalty to miss an open ice hit.

It is a penalty if, as a consequence of missing, you end up hitting the guy knee on knee.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

If he had executed it properly, Necas wouldn’t have been able to make a last minute move to avoid it.

It was poorly timed and executed.

lol what? That’s one of the siillier things I’ve read on here. Any player on any hit they see could do something else to try and avoid it. It’s just way smarter in 90% of cases to just brace for the contact and try to give it back.

That’s what you’re taught when you’re taught to hit in your early teens. Necas completely caused the knee contact.

It’s not a penalty to miss an open ice hit.

It is a penalty if, as a consequence of missing, you end up hitting the guy knee on knee.

Not if the other guy caused the knee contact. If the player with the puck causes the contact by making some last second change and the hitting player doesn’t have a chance to alter it’s not a penalty.

 

[NyQuil]

Any player on any hit they see could do something else to try and avoid it. It’s just way smarter in 90% of cases to just brace for the contact and try to give it back.

That’s what you’re taught when you’re taught to hit in your early teens.

I totally agree.

Most people brace for contact because they would rather not sacrifice their knee for a powerplay.

That doesn’t mean it’s not a penalty if knee on knee contact is made.

In baseball, guys try to avoid getting hit by pitches all the time because they would rather not take a fastball to a sensitive area in return for an automatic base.

That doesn’t mean that it’s the batter’s fault if he gets hit by a pitch.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

The point is that he missed.

I never claimed that Meier went out there to destroy his knee. In fact I said the exact opposite.

Open hits are risky and dangerous so you’d better not miss.



If he had executed it properly, Necas wouldn’t have been able to make a last minute move to avoid it.

It was poorly timed and executed.

The point is that nothing Meier did or didn't do led to the contact. It was Necas actions in trying to avoid it which put him in a much more vulnerable position.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I totally agree.

Most people brace for contact because they would rather not sacrifice their knee for a powerplay.

That doesn’t mean it’s not a penalty if contact is made.

In baseball, guys try to avoid getting hit by pitches all the time because they would rather not take a fastball to a sensitive area in return for an automatic base.

That doesn’t mean that it’s the batter’s fault if he gets hit by a pitch.

And if you stick your elbow over the plate and get hit, it’s often not called a HBP.

 

[NyQuil]

And if you stick your elbow over the plate and get hit, it’s often not called a HBP.

The equivalent would be Necas extending his leg towards Meier which is not what happens here.

He moves the rest of his body away and as a result Meier ends up initiating a knee on knee hit.

 

[Tryamw]

The point is that nothing Meier did or didn't do led to the contact. It was Necas actions in trying to avoid it which put him in a much more vulnerable position.

Oh so Meier didn't intend to hit Necas that why he leans so far to try and get his shoulder in..
I'll definitely argue that If Meier hadn't intended to hit Necas that this event would not have taken place..

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I totally agree.

Most people brace for contact because they would rather not sacrifice their knee for a powerplay.

That doesn’t mean it’s not a penalty if knee on knee contact is made.

In baseball, guys try to avoid getting hit by pitches all the time because they would rather not take a fastball to a sensitive area in return for an automatic base.

That doesn’t mean that it’s the batter’s fault if he gets hit by a pitch.

Yes it fully isn’t a penalty you’re straight up wrong there. Players getting hit have a responsibility to make the contact more dangerous.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes it fully isn’t a penalty you’re straight up wrong there.

100% it was a penalty, remove the homer glasses. Whether he meant to hit his knee or not, it’s a penalty.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Oh so Meier didn't intend to hit Necas that why he leans so far to try and get his shoulder in..
I'll definitely argue that If Meier hadn't intended to hit Necas that this event would not have taken place..

What? Of course he was trying to hit him lol. I think you need to re-read the sequence of posts again. The discussion being had is clearly referencing the knee contact specifically. If Necas doesn't completely alter his body stance and try and jump to the side, there is no knee contact, it's shoulder.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Oh so Meier didn't intend to hit Necas that why he leans so far to try and get his shoulder in..
I'll definitely argue that If Meier hadn't intended to hit Necas that this event would not have taken place..

He absolutely intended to.
There’s a point any time you’re taking a hit where you can no longer get out of the way without making the contact more dangerous. That’s when you brace for the contact and that’s something hockey players are taught at a young age.

Necas had reached that point where he could no longer safely get out of the way. Players could do what Necas did on any hit in any game and 9/10 times you’d get a similar result. The hit was lined up and Necas didn’t have time to actually get out of the way. He stupidly tried and made it significantly more dangerous.

Half of what kids are taught when learning hitting is how to take them. Because players getting hit have a responsibility to keep themselves and their opponents safe as well

100% it was a penalty, remove the homer glasses. Whether he meant to hit his knee or not, it’s a penalty.

No it’s isn’t. Necas caused the contact and made it dangerous end of story. There’s not a thing Meier could have done differently. He went for a perfectly clean hit, took a good angle, and led with his shoulder.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

The equivalent would be Necas extending his leg towards Meier which is not what happens here.

He moves the rest of his body away and as a result Meier ends up initiating a knee on knee hit.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Your whole problem is attaching this conjured idea of causality from broadcasters directly to fans. As much as you'd like your little theory to be unassailable truth, there's zero basis to saying anyone got their ideas from broadcasters, be they Rangers, Devils, or Canes fans.

There have been several points in this thread where it’s very obvious that Devils fans watching the game on television from 500 miles away are coming into this thread with a completely false idea of what happened.

A couple that jump easily to mind: the claim that Necas didn’t even test out his leg before returning to the ice, which was plainly visible to the 19K fans in attendance and anyone watching the Canes broadcast; and the claim that there was no head contact on the Orlov hit, when it’s plainly visible on replay that the hit was directly into his face. People saying they didn’t see these things happen are objectively, factually wrong.

I will grant you, these anti-factual ideas don’t necessarily trace back to the Devils broadcast. It could very well be that they didn’t see the game at all and took to the internet to argue about it anyway.

The other two were very clearly intimating this was a dive. There would be zero utility to talking about Canes players diving in other games otherwise.

I agree that there’s zero utility in showing up just to air grievances from old games, but welcome to the internet. Again, do you think a Sharks or Rangers or Penguins fan even watched this game?

If you want your whole point to be fans and team-affiliated broadcasters/equipment managers/coachers are biased, well hey, very cool. Again, not breaking any new ground so much as acting like you discovered the Statue of Liberty when you're flying in to Newark airport.

I mean, that’s really what this thread is. @CharasLazyWrister put it best:

it’s more emotionally satisfying for the team/fans that feel they got “screwed” to put a few things together and claim they have proof of malice.

This thread has been a handful of Devils fans churning through conspiracy theories in search of a story that gives them emotional closure on a bad loss, and getting pissed when others laugh at them for doing it on such a flimsy premise.

 

[Golden_Jet]

What? Of course he was trying to hit him lol. I think you need to re-read the sequence of posts again. The discussion being had is clearly referencing the knee contact specifically. If Necas doesn't completely alter his body stance and try and jump to the side, there is no knee contact, it's shoulder.

Yes, when you are carrying the puck, you try to avoid being hit. Just like a football player running with the ball, tries to make a move around the guy tackling him.

 

[NyQuil]

View attachment 952983

If you watch in slow motion, it’s his foot that extends and the knee is in the same position.

Meier’s last second lunge to ensure he makes contact is actually what extends into Necas knee.

Necas actually tries to pull his knee back but it’s too late.

 

[Soundwave]

I think it's a miracle Necas wasn't more seriously hurt. Knees aren't supposed to bend like that.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Yes, when you are carrying the puck, you try to avoid being hit. Just like a football player running with the ball, tries to make a move around the guy tackling him.

Yes you do. But there’s a point where you can no longer do so safely and you have to brace. Hockey players are taught that at like age 12

Lol you can keep laughing at post or actually try to make a decent point.

If you watch in slow motion, it’s his foot that extends and the knee is in the same position.

Meier’s last second lunge to ensure he makes contact is actually what extends into Necas knee.

His foot doesn’t extend at all lol. He holds his same position and doesn’t make any last second adjustments. There’s not a thing he can do.