Meier knee Necas

[Golden_Jet]

Yup I did say it and it’s right lol.

Some good satire right there.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

A call on the ice is required to be made before review is initiated. The purpose of the review is to determine whether the call will be a major, minor, or no penalty. You’re right that officials will sometimes call a major on the ice, in order to initiate the review so they can use replay to determine the correct call.

Once the review is initiated, injury is irrelevant to whether kneeing is called a minor, a major, or waved off entirely. The only question is the degree of severity in the kneeing motion itself.

Again I understand that refs get calls wrong, even on replay. But it’s a steep hill to climb when arguing that something wasn’t a penalty at all after it was confirmed a major upon review.

The contention is that it wasn’t a major, and was only upgraded to one based on the presumption of Necas being hurt. That’s my position at least.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Some good satire right there.

Another great point from you. You’re really contributing to this argument here

 

[tarheelhockey]

There you go again, treating your inane "theory" as fact. Truly could not be less interested in this "discussion" anymore, so I'll leave it there.

A Devils fan upthread made a false claim about something that was captured on-camera on the Canes broadcast but not shown on the Devils broadcast. He specifically said that he watched this game via the Devils broadcast. It is a fact that the source of his false statement was the Devils broadcast.

There’s no “theory” in this, it’s demonstrably true that people who weren’t at the game were persuaded by what was shown/said on the broadcast they were watching.

Like I said, this isn't 1998. Hockey clips are readily accessible from all corners of the internet.

And the point is that you can’t speak to what happened over the course of several minutes of live action by watching a little clip on the Internet. It’s really clear who saw the game in its entirety and who didn’t.

It was more than one (one which was far more disgusting than the other and looks like it was deleted). The second, is still up and has multiple likes. I'd cross-post it, but it's against site rules. Go ahead and look, post #237.

Then report it, for crying out loud. I’m not a mod, what do you want me to do about it other than say I don’t like it?

Did you hear the Canes broadcast? They didn’t think it was a major either

Yep, they took a pretty middle-ground approach. Kind of like Daneyko did, until about 3 minutes later when he completely reversed his opinion based on the way the narrative played out.

More importantly, the Canes broadcast moved on to talking about current events for the rest of the game. There was a ton of action in the final 5 minutes, so they had a ton to talk about. Whereas the Devils broadcast kept pivoting back to the Necas call over and over, relating the entire rest of the game back to that one event. Two very different ways of perceiving the outcome of the game.

The contention is that it wasn’t a major, and was only upgraded to one based on the presumption of Necas being hurt. That’s my position at least.

Understood, and I think it’s easily defensible to argue that it wasn’t a major. I was referring to that ongoing argument by captain3rdline that the contact was 100% on Necas and therefore not a penalty at all. That argument is a lot, lot tougher to make.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Another great point from you. You’re really contributing to this argument here

At least some of us are , as opposed to you with homer glasses, that say it’s not even a penalty. lol
That tells the us all you’ve never played hockey with referees on the ice , let alone one in which they get to review the call.

But we should listen to the homer take vs the referees, who watched it in slo mo from several angles. Comedy gold dude, he kneed him, got a penalty, move on, as its time to stop crying about a penalty.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

A Devils fan upthread made a false claim about something that was captured on-camera on the Canes broadcast but not shown on the Devils broadcast. He specifically said that he watched this game via the Devils broadcast. It is a fact that the source of his false statement was the Devils broadcast.

There’s no “theory” in this, it’s demonstrably true that people who weren’t at the game were persuaded by what was shown/said on the broadcast they were watching.



And the point is that you can’t speak to what happened over the course of several minutes of live action by watching a little clip on the Internet. It’s really clear who saw the game in its entirety and who didn’t.



Then report it, for crying out loud. I’m not a mod, what do you want me to do about it other than say I don’t like it?



Yep, they took a pretty middle-ground approach. Kind of like Daneyko did, until about 3 minutes later when he completely reversed his opinion based on the way the narrative played out.

More importantly, the Canes broadcast moved on to talking about current events for the rest of the game. There was a ton of action in the final 5 minutes, so they had a ton to talk about. Whereas the Devils broadcast kept pivoting back to the Necas call over and over, relating the entire rest of the game back to that one event. Two very different ways of perceiving the outcome of the game.



Understood, and I think it’s easily defensible to argue that it wasn’t a major. I was referring to that ongoing argument by captain3rdline that the contact was 100% on Necas and therefore not a penalty at all. That argument is a lot, lot tougher to make.

No shit they moved on and the devils didn’t. It completely benefited them and changed the game. Why would the Canes broadcasters keep talking about a questionable call that possibly won them the game? The devils broadcasters were rightfully pissed.

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

I feel like these awkward hit match penalties should at least have the duration of the 5 minute PP go before calling it the game. This way when a player sells the call but decides to hop on for the PP (clearly fine) then the penalized team at least doesn't lose their player. It also just gives Toronto or whoever a lot more time to make the right call in that regard. Losing a guy like Timo and having the lines get all ****ed up the rest of the way is a double blow, so at least make sure that part of the call is right.

Otherwise, you can expect many Canes players to try this again come playoff time, given the reward they were provided with last night.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

At least some of us are , as opposed to you with homer glasses, that say it’s not even a penalty. lol
That tells the us all you’ve never played hockey with referees on the ice , let alone one in which they get to review the call.

But we should listen to the homer take vs the referees, who watched it in slo mo from several angles. Comedy gold dude, he kneed him, got a penalty, move on, as its time to stop crying about a penalty.

Yes another great way to make an argument. Oh you’ve never played. Despite it being an incredibly stupid argument I did play and my career ended on a knee on knee hit.

You keep going back to the referees like they don’t get stuff wrong and that isn’t exactly why we have these threads. It’s another stupid argument that doesn’t actually bring any value to the conversation. As I said to someone else, if you want to play that game the DOPS clearly disagreed with the major call. If they agreed with it they 100% would have suspended Meier who just got back from a previous suspension.

 

[tarheelhockey]

No shit they moved on and the devils didn’t. It completely benefited them and changed the game. Why would the Canes broadcasters keep talking about a questionable call that possibly won them the game? The devils broadcasters were rightfully pissed.

It’s not a question of why the Canes broadcasters moved on and continued to call the game as it played out. It’s a question of why the Devils broadcasters sulked and whined about it for 10 more minutes of gameplay while having very little to say about the events of those 10 minutes.

It was narrative building, and obviously their audience swallowed the bait. It’s not like this is the first time it’s happened, hell I’ve seen the Canes broadcasters do it from time to time. But it generally doesn’t distort people’s sense of reality to this extent.

I feel like these awkward hit match penalties should at least have the duration of the 5 minute PP go before calling it the game. This way when a player sells the call but decides to hop on for the PP (clearly fine) then the penalized team at least doesn't lose their player. It also just gives Toronto or whoever a lot more time to make the right call in that regard.

Injury has zero impact on the outcome of video review. There are some penalties where injury is a specific consideration — kneeing is not one of them. A kneeing call is 100% about the action taken by the offending player and 0% about the outcome. Obviously a ref can be swayed by the outcome in real-time, but a team video review is a different matter. It was entirely about the question, did Meier throw out his knee to make contact or not?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yeah, I watched him hit Timo without the puck earlier in the game. Maybe if Timo flailed out of the way he could’ve drawn the kneeing penalty.

I mean he’s flailing alright. Hard to draw a kneeing penalty though when you don’t get hit in the knee as the primary point of contact

 

[Captain3rdLine]

It’s not a question of why the Canes broadcasters moved on and continued to call the game as it played out. It’s a question of why the Devils broadcasters sulked and whined about it for 10 more minutes of gameplay while having very little to say about the events of those 10 minutes.

It was narrative building, and obviously their audience swallowed the bait. It’s not like this is the first time it’s happened, hell I’ve seen the Canes broadcasters do it from time to time. But it generally doesn’t distort people’s sense of reality to this extent.



Injury has zero impact on the outcome of video review. There are some penalties where injury is a specific consideration — kneeing is not one of them. A kneeing call is 100% about the action taken by the offending player and 0% about the outcome. Obviously a ref can be swayed by the outcome in real-time, but a team video review is a different matter. It was entirely about the question, did Meier throw out his knee to make contact or not?

But they didn’t whatsoever. They talked a ton about the rest of the game. 95%+ of what they talked about after had nothing to with the hit. They brought it up a few more times out of frustration. It wasn’t narrative building. The play is pretty clear. He doesn’t stick his knee out or do anything wrong.

If you think Necas laying around on the ground didn’t significantly impact the refs call you’re delusional. Hell that’s the only reason the play eventually got stopped because they didn’t even call a penalty originally. Injuries and extent of injuries is also a major consideration when determining penalties and suspensions even though it shouldn’t be in my opinion.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

It’s not a question of why the Canes broadcasters moved on and continued to call the game as it played out. It’s a question of why the Devils broadcasters sulked and whined about it for 10 more minutes of gameplay while having very little to say about the events of those 10 minutes.

It was narrative building, and obviously their audience swallowed the bait. It’s not like this is the first time it’s happened, hell I’ve seen the Canes broadcasters do it from time to time. But it generally doesn’t distort people’s sense of reality to this extent.

Probably because the Devils didn’t get a single PP in the previous matchup. And the insane no call on the Luke Hughes trip/slew foot that directly led to Jack having to take a penalty. Also the blatant Staal penalty that wasn’t called after the blown major call.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes another great way to make an argument. Oh you’ve never played. Despite it being an incredibly stupid argument I did play and my career ended on a knee on knee hit.

You keep going back to the referees like they don’t get stuff wrong and that isn’t exactly why we have these threads. It’s another stupid argument that doesn’t actually bring any value to the conversation. As I said to someone else, if you want to play that game the DOPS clearly disagreed with the major call. If they agreed with it they 100% would have suspended Meier who just got back from a previous suspension.

DOPS didn’t disagree, if player was hurt and out with a knee injury, he would be getting a suspension.

Your struggling, but I do appreciate the entertainment you provide to the thread.
Stop with the hyperbole, it was a penalty, and you keep on whining about it, and act like your smarter than the ref , who watched it in slo no, and didn’t even reduce it 2 minutes.

Cheers dude , no point in responding to a your homer takes any longer,

 

[NyQuil]

Watching the game and seeing every time a Hurricane player got hit the crowd yelling for a penalty makes your post quite ironic. Never seen a NHL crowd carry on like that.

You should visit the Bell Centre.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

DOPS didn’t disagree, if player was hurt and out with a knee injury, he would be getting a suspension.

Your struggling, but I do appreciate the entertainment you provide to the thread.
Stop with the hyperbole, it was a penalty, and you keep on whining about it, and act like your smarter than the ref , who watched it in slo no, and didn’t even reduce it 2 minutes.

Cheers dude , no point in responding to a your homer takes any longer,

You have provided nothing of value to this debate. You haven’t even talked about the actual hit once. I have absolutely zero interest whatsoever in responding to you again unless you have something of value to say that isn’t

“This is comical”

“You’re a homer”

“You’ve clearly never played hockey”

“The refs said it was so it must’ve been”

Or just laughing at the post because you don’t have any decent points to make.

Because that is quite literally all you’ve done so far. I would expect more mature responses from an 8 year old. Cheers

 

[NJDevilsFan21]

Injury has zero impact on the outcome of video review. There are some penalties where injury is a specific consideration — kneeing is not one of them. A kneeing call is 100% about the action taken by the offending player and 0% about the outcome. Obviously a ref can be swayed by the outcome in real-time, but a team video review is a different matter. It was entirely about the question, did Meier throw out his knee to make contact or not?

Of course it does. It's human nature (and error). If a ref or even video review judge sees a player injured, they will be more inclined to kick a player out. Because in this case they assume from the "result" that Meier led with his knee otherwise how could Necas have been immobilized?

I'm actually not complaining about the 5 minute call. Things happen too quickly and there isn't time to sit there all day and figure it out. In the long run that stuff cancels itself out. Sometimes it goes your way and other time it doesn't.

Otherwise, given a bit more time to review (and more scrutiny from Necas coming back right away, because now it's the reverse psychology of the above) I don't think Timo gets ejected. He serves his 5 and finishes out the game.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Necas tried to avoid being hit.......

 

[Zippy316]

Based on the rules, injury does play a factor on a match penalty and other than assuming a Necas was hurt on the play, it shouldn’t have been a match. There’s nothing in that hit that makes me feel like Meier is attempted to or deliberately injured.

He went for a hit, Necas tried to avoid, and there was knee contact. No extension of the knee and no change in Meier’s path. The only change was Necas trying to avoid the hit or else it would’ve been a dangerous, but legal shoulder on chest collision at a high speed.

Clearly the mandate from the NHLer is to err on the side of caution for these hits, especially in game. The onus is technically on the player to make a clean hit.

You’re almost always going to get a penalty in Meier’s situation. The fact that is a 5 minute solely because Necas was laying on the ice is the dumb part, especially when he’s back on the bench before they even restarted play. I don’t fault Necas or the refs there, but from a Devils perspective, that’s tough to see in the third period of a 2-2 game.

It’s even more frustrating from the Devils perspective that only a few minutes later, the penalties called on the Haula hit make zero sense. If it was boarding on Haula and roughing on Orlov, understandable. Roughing on Haula makes no sense in the context of that entire situation.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Necas tried to avoid being hit.......

When it was no longer avoidable.

There’s a point in taking any hit where you can longer get out of the way safely and trying to do so will make the contact more dangerous.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If you think Necas laying around on the ground didn’t significantly impact the refs call you’re delusional. Hell that’s the only reason the play eventually got stopped because they didn’t even call a penalty originally. Injuries and extent of injuries is also a major consideration when determining penalties and suspensions even though it shouldn’t be in my opinion.

That’s not how the review process works. If you’re saying that him being down on the ice led to the initial whistle so that they could look for an illegal hit, sure. But the review is based solely on whether the offender took an illegal action, full stop. They’re not going to hit someone with a major penalty on a legal hit just because it had a bad outcome.

Probably because the Devils didn’t get a single PP in the previous matchup. And the insane no call on the Luke Hughes trip/slew foot that directly led to Jack having to take a penalty. Also the blatant Staal penalty that wasn’t called after the blown major call.

Go back and re-watch the “blatant Staal penalty”, there was absolutely nothing there. The Devils commentators were calling for a high sticking penalty on a guy who was carrying the puck with the opposite hand. It was kind of funny tbh.

Of course it does. It's human nature (and error). If a ref or even video review judge sees a player injured, they will be more inclined to kick a player out. Because in this case they assume from the "result" that Meier led with his knee otherwise how could Necas have been immobilized?

I'm actually not complaining about the 5 minute call. Things happen too quickly and there isn't time to sit there all day and figure it out. In the long run that stuff cancels itself out. Sometimes it goes your way and other time it doesn't.

Otherwise, given a bit more time to review (and more scrutiny from Necas coming back right away, because now it's the reverse psychology of the above) I don't think Timo gets ejected. He serves his 5 and finishes out the game.

The ejection isn’t optional on a major. Again, they made a very conscious choice to utilize 5+automatic game misconduct rather than a minor, let alone no penalty at all.

View attachment 953004

Based on the rules, injury does play a factor on a match penalty and other than assuming a Necas was hurt on the play, it shouldn’t have been a match. There’s nothing in that hit that makes me feel like Meier is attempted to or deliberately injured.

It wasn’t a match, it was a major+game. To your point, if they had judged this based on injury or intent, it would have been a match. That distinction runs counter to the whole idea that they were swayed by the injury.

 

[Winger98]

I thought Meier leaned in when he saw Necas move to evade him, and I think Meier deserved the penalty.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

That’s not how the review process works. If you’re saying that him being down on the ice led to the initial whistle so that they could look for an illegal hit, sure. But the review is based solely on whether the offender took an illegal action, full stop. They’re not going to hit someone with a major penalty on a legal hit just because it had a bad outcome.



Go back and re-watch the “blatant Staal penalty”, there was absolutely nothing there. The Devils commentators were calling for a high sticking penalty on a guy who was carrying the puck with the opposite hand. It was kind of funny tbh.



The ejection isn’t optional on a major. Again, they made a very conscious choice to utilize 5+automatic game misconduct rather than a minor, let alone no penalty at all.



It wasn’t a match, it was a major+game. To your point, if they had judged this based on injury or intent, it would have been a match. That distinction runs counter to the whole idea that they were swayed by the injury.

Why would Bratt fake a high sticking call while on the kill? That makes no sense to do in any regard lol

 

[bleedgreen]

He does. He completely caused the knee on knee contact. Happy to write it again.

He threw himself at Meier. He wanted to be hit. He threw his knee at the guy who’s minding his own business.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

He threw himself at Meier. He wanted to be hit. He threw his knee at the guy who’s minding his own business.

Meier was just skating there, getting ready for his annual "Puppies for Orphans" event, when Necas, ranting and raving, foam streaming down his mouth, came out of nowhere and LAUNCHED himself at the unsuspecting Meier. A real difficult thing to watch.

 

[Sanderson]

I thought Meier leaned in when he saw Necas move to evade him, and I think Meier deserved the penalty.

Didn't see Meier leaning in more than usual, that might just be an effect of slo-mo making something that happened in an instance look more deliberate, but I very much agree that the penalty seemed on point. Not much to argue against that this was kneeing.

And as much as some people always want to blame the victim, no, it had nothing whatsoever to do with anything Necas did. Necas made a completely normal move.