McDavid nearing 1000 points at 27 years old

[EdmFlyersfan]

30 or 40 years from now Orr and Gordie will be a memory and most of us who remember Gretz and Mario will be gone too.

The only thing left will be stats.....he'll easily be top 3.

When Dionne retired, he had the second most career points in the NHL (behind only Gordie)...no one thought of him as the second or third best player behind Howe and Orr at that point (from my recollection he wasn't even mentioned in the top 5)...same will happen to McDavid.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Well now you've done it. A swallow will drop a coconut on his head and end his playing career prematurely.

You called the jinx

 

[Video Nasty]

When Dionne retired, he had the second most career points in the NHL (behind only Gordie)L...no one thought of him as the second best player behind Howe and Orr at that point...same will happen to McDavid.

Dionne didn’t retire with 3 Harts, 4 Lindsays, 5 Art Rosses, and a Conn Smythe. McDavid is in a different stratosphere and will be thought of as such when judged in the end.

And a minor quibble. When Dionne retired, he was 3rd in points.

 

[admiralcadillac]

This begs the question, was Mike Bossy generational?

 

[CanadienShark]

Amazing how we still get the odd trolls who scoff at him being generational. This guy is already top 5 in the history of the game, knocking on the door of top 4.

 

[Coffey]

This begs the question, was Mike Bossy generational?

With zero Harts or Art Rosses? Nope.

Two pre-1999 Rockets I guess.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

He's now a top 100 player of all time in my books.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I can't stand people mentioning his lack of cups. When a player has the kind of playoff performance he just had, it's irrelevant. What more could he have done?

I don’t think I weigh Cups as much as most. But if we’re having a conversation about a player as literally the best to ever play a sport - and all the other options have multiple championships - I don’t think it’s easy to make that case to the casual fan or folks who are new to the sport. That’s the obstacle he faces.

Amazing player we’re lucky to watch.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Your opinion doesn't mean shit if you can't understand cups are a team accomplishment.

Interesting question honestly. I guess it depends on if you consider a team achievement like a cup to weigh in on this. From my perspective, it's almost more impressive that he has a Conn Smythe WITHOUT a cup lol. I'm not sure as to the answer though. Maybe it knocks him back a spot or 2?

It’s fascinating how much the narrative has shifted in the last 6-7 years.

check out this thread from 2018: “After Ovi, who needs the Cup most to cement their legacy?”

After Ovi, who needs the Cup the most to cement their status?

Who are the players that have had outstanding careers so far that you really feel like need the cup cement their status as one of the best of current generation (and last) ? Guys I personally hope will take it (unlikely as it may be): Thornton or Lundqvist. Players I think have a good chance...

forums.hfboards.com

In the first 100 posts, I counted only 3 that pushed back against the notion that a player needed a cup to legitimize their greatness.

It seems like the general sentiment has now flipped in favor of the Cup being a team accomplishment, not something that’s necessarily needed to validate a player’s greatness. What’s the reason for that shift?

I have a few thoughts but as always am curious to hear from others.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

It’s fascinating how much the narrative has shifted in the last 6-7 years.

check out this thread from 2018: “After Ovi, who needs the Cup most to cement their legacy?”

After Ovi, who needs the Cup the most to cement their status?

Who are the players that have had outstanding careers so far that you really feel like need the cup cement their status as one of the best of current generation (and last) ? Guys I personally hope will take it (unlikely as it may be): Thornton or Lundqvist. Players I think have a good chance...

forums.hfboards.com

In the first 100 posts, I counted only 3 that pushed back against the notion that a player needed a cup to legitimize their greatness.

It seems like the general sentiment has now flipped in favor of the Cup being a team accomplishment, not something that’s necessarily needed to validate a player’s greatness. What’s the reason for that shift?

I have a few thoughts but as always am curious to hear from others.

1- I remember the games when it was fewer teams and fed by a much smaller worldwide pool of players, with much less sophisticated development and higher homogeneity of country of origin.

2- I remember the games when they were much slower in pace and offered more space and time to better players, with smaller rosters, which gave more sway to the superior players.

3- I remember the games with an enormous disparity in talent in a league without a cap and with little parity between teams compared to today

4- My objectivity trumps my attachment to the past

5- I've had this perspective a long time before Ovy ever won a cup

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

This begs the question, was Mike Bossy generational?

Absolutely. Individual trophy’s weren’t really a milestone or important back then. Just saying.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

All you are doing is adding up points and trophy’s as a subjective way to make a “greatest ever/top x” argument.

I personally find McDavid one-dimensional and boring …I know it is not the popular opinion around here and I honestly do respect his talent level…he just has to cut out the constant whining.

He would be a top 20 player most likely, but it is way early elevating him to top-3/best-ever when he hasn’t accomplished much outside individual awards.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Some comparables that hit 1000 before age 30:

Crosby at 29
Jagr at 29
Lemieux at 26
Gretzky at 23

That Gretzky stat is just ridiculous

 

[Zalos]

When Dionne retired, he had the second most career points in the NHL (behind only Gordie)...no one thought of him as the second or third best player behind Howe and Orr at that point (from my recollection he wasn't even mentioned in the top 5)...same will happen to McDavid.

The f*** is this argument? Did you just compare Marcel Dionne to Connor McDavid?

They're like two tiers apart.

 

[crosbyshow]

Some comparables that hit 1000 before age 30:

Crosby at 29
Jagr at 29
Lemieux at 26
Gretzky at 23

That Gretzky stat is just ridiculous

Lemieux did not played at 18 and 25 years old

 

[Rec T]

I've got to say, as far as jinx threads go ... this one was really impressive.

 

[Beljavskij]

Yes, because you're looking at it from the lense of players who won cups in a 23 teams or fewer league. Guys like Crosby got lucky in their timing and team composition.

Crosby was lucky to win his cups?
Would say it's still hard to win the cup in a 23 team league, and infinitely more difficult to do it 3 (!) times in a 30+ team league. That's not luck.

If anything the Oilers have been given every opportunity to build a championship team. They have two nr 1 draft picks, a nr 3, a nr 7 and a nr 10 playing in the line-up today.

Skillwise it's all there. It's on the players to make it happen.

The oilers are the overwhelming favorites to win it this year. Just saying.

 

[missionAvs]

I've got to say, as far as jinx threads go ... this one was really impressive.

Literally thinking the same thing as I got up this morning. What a time to make this thread. Hope that McJesus heals up well.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I've got to say, as far as jinx threads go ... this one was really impressive.

I have so much power, how incredible!

Grow-up

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Big accomplishment for sure.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Going to ask this one out loud here.

Despite being at his peak, age 26-27 years old and coming directly off a 153 point career year, McDavid has been outperformed by a number of forwards over the last two years.

Last year McDavid, largely healthy for the majority of the season, was outperformed by both MacKinnon and Kucherov over a full NHL season.

This year, healthy for the first 10 games, a number of other guys were also ahead of him at the time of his injury. Heck, even a 38 year old Malkin is kicking his butt, so to speak.

Is this the level of play we expect from a “Big 5” level of player at his peak? Or does it show he is more of a Crosby/Jagr level of player who was fortunate enough to string together a few healthy seasons in the right era?

 

[Toby91ca]

Going to ask this one out loud here.

Despite being at his peak, age 26-27 years old and coming directly off a 153 point career year, McDavid has been outperformed by a number of forwards over the last two years.

Last year McDavid, largely healthy for the majority of the season, was outperformed by both MacKinnon and Kucherov over a full NHL season.

This year, healthy for the first 10 games, a number of other guys were also ahead of him at the time of his injury. Heck, even a 38 year old Malkin is kicking his butt, so to speak.

Is this the level of play we expect from a “Big 5” level of player at his peak? Or does it show he is more of a Crosby/Jagr level of player who was fortunate enough to string together a few healthy seasons in the right era?

Who knows, most of us just think he'll be there by the end of his career.....he hasn't done enough to warrant that spot today though.

However, couple major issues/comments here: We're looking at a 8 or 9 game sample? So what? Last year he was 3rd in scoring, but 2nd in PPG...just off the lead..again, so what? This is different vs. a player that's had some big years and falls of cliffs other years. No player, none, in the history of the game is going to be at the top every year without exception. What gets people to all-time levels are guys that are around there almost every year....consistency

 

[Toby91ca]

Lemieux did not played at 18 and 25 years old

What are you trying to say here? Gretzky getting to 1,000pts at 23 doesn't look that much better than Lemieux getting there at 26 because Lemieux didn't play at 18 or 25? (1) What are you talking about in terms of Lemieux not playing at 25? (2) Gretzky played 45 games at the age of 18 vs. 0 for Lemieux simply because their birthdates. No matter how you look at the stats, Gretzky's is almost beyond comprehension.

Another way to look at it is games played....Gretzky got to 1,005pts in 424 games, Lemieux got to 1,001pts in 513 games. Both impressive, obviously, but Gretzky still got there way faster. On the age thing, one could then argue Gretzky started in the NHL younger at 18, so wasn't as experienced as Lemieux who came in at 19....so Lemieux had the advantage.

Regardless, I simply look at some Gretzky stats and chalk them up as mind blowing....by game 513, he was up to 1,225pts.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Going to ask this one out loud here.

Despite being at his peak, age 26-27 years old and coming directly off a 153 point career year, McDavid has been outperformed by a number of forwards over the last two years.

He just broke Gretzky’s assist record and put up a 42 pt playoff run lmfao what?

Could you possibly be more wrong about something?

 

[Toby91ca]

He just broke Gretzky’s assist record and put up a 42 pt playoff run lmfao what?

Could you possibly be more wrong about something?

While I don't disagree with sentiment here, while "breaking Gretzky's assist record" is accurate, probably needs to come with a bit of context. Because they were so good, Gretzky had far less games to do it, 18 or 19 compared to McDavid's 25 and Gretzky's came with far more goals and a cup.