McDavid becomes the 4th fastest player to reach 1000 points.

[McOilers97]

You do know the Oilers are the favorites to win the Cup by everyone from Vegas to experts

But yes .. the mcdavid/drai underdog disrespected narrative must go in (despite being favorites)

Betting odd favorites yes, but around here they apparently are terrible and only have 2 good players.

 

[12ozPapa]

Betting odd favorites yes, but around here they apparently are terrible and only have 2 good players.

I don’t think people say they are terrible. They just don’t see a Cup winning team currently.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

I guess his career ended last night eh?

Different eras for sure. Gretzky was clearly above all in his era just like McDavid is now

Didn't McDavid just lose to Kucherov last year for the Art Ross? On-top of that finish 3rd...not very Gretzky-like.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Didn't McDavid just lose to Kucherov last year for the Art Ross? On-top of that finish 3rd...not very Gretzky-like.

Is all you do troll? Like is your brain wired to see a mcdavid thread and think “oh I should go in there and troll”

 

[Rob Brown]

Very cool.

I think McDavid is certainly cementing himself on that Mount Rushmore of a hockey. It's pretty well established that there are 4 players who stand alone at the top of the game. Gretz, Lemieux, Orr and Howe. They were all pretty dominant players in their eras and they all transformed the game around them, He's likely going to make it a top 5 when all is said and done. Just based on hardware alone.

Gretz - 10 Ross, 5 Rocket, 9 Hart, 5 Pearson, 2 Smythe, 8 First All Star, 7 Second All Star, 4 Cups

Lemieux - 6 Ross, 3 Rocket, 3 Hart, 4 Pearson, 2 Smythe, 5 First All Star, 4 Second All Star, 2 Cups

Orr - 2 Ross, 3 Hart, 1 Pearson, 2 Smythe, 8 Norris, 8 First All Star, 1 Second All Star, 2 Cups

Howe - 6 Ross, 5 Rocket, 6 Hart, 12 First All Star, 9 Second All Star, 4 Cups
No Smythe existed during Howe's playing time but he likely wins at least 2 based on stats

McDavid - 5 Ross, 1 Rocket, 3 Hart, 4 Pearson, 1 Smythe, 5 First All Star, 2 Second All Star

He's racking up the points to belong in that conversation in his 28 year old season. Sure he doesn't have a Cup yet and that will be a large knock on him but he's also playing in the hardest era to ever win a Cup. 32 teams in a cap era makes it a damn hard feat to do but he does have a finals appearance and a Smythe to go along with it.

Crosby:
- 2 Art Ross
- 2 Hart
- 3 Ted Lindsay
- 2 Rockets
- 3 Stanley Cups
- 2 Conn Smythe
- 4 First All Star
- 4 Second All Star
- 2 Olympic Gold
- 10th all time in points

McDavid already has more individual trophies, but Sid has 3 Cups and 2 Conn Smythe's and has a good chance to finish his career in the top 5 of points all-time.

I think Crosby will already be considered in the top 5 when he retires and McDavid will make it a top 6, with McDavid likely surpassing Crosby if he manages to win a Cup.

 

[PuckG]

Didn't McDavid just lose to Kucherov last year for the Art Ross? On-top of that finish 3rd...not very Gretzky-like.

Who could have possible thought you’d be in here in traditional fashion posting something dumb on McDavid?

Now all we need is that one Canucks fan who always goes “Points don’t matter in the NHL” whenever stats are brought up and this thread is truly complete.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Is all you do troll? Like is your brain wired to see a mcdavid thread and think “oh I should go in there and troll”

So pointing out facts is trolling now?

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Who could have possible thought you’d be in here in traditional fashion posting something dumb on McDavid?

Now all we need is that one Canucks fan who always goes “Points don’t matter in the NHL” whenever stats are brought up and this thread is truly complete.

Gretzky in his prime didn't lose the Art Ross to anyone other than Mario from 1981 thru 1994... McDavid is not even close to that streak and doesn't have a "Mario" chasing behind him.

 

[PuckG]

Gretzky in his prime didn't lose the Art Ross to anyone other than Mario from 1981 thru 1994... McDavid is not even close to that streak and doesn't have a "Mario" chasing behind him.

And he’ll still have a strong case for the 3rd best player to ever play the game with the way he’s trending.

 

[jeffff]

Didn't McDavid just lose to Kucherov last year for the Art Ross? On-top of that finish 3rd...not very Gretzky-like.

Gretzky in his prime didn't lose the Art Ross to anyone other than Mario from 1981 thru 1994... McDavid is not even close to that streak and doesn't have a "Mario" chasing behind him.

What is so stupid he only argument you have is comparing him to the best player that ever played the game lmfao There have been 3 ross winners in the last 8 years, Mcdavid has won 5.

Give it a rest already.

 

[McOilers97]

Gretzky in his prime didn't lose the Art Ross to anyone other than Mario from 1981 thru 1994... McDavid is not even close to that streak and doesn't have a "Mario" chasing behind him.

Not a full rebuttal, but it's worth noting that the talent pool of NHL players was incredibly shallow 30-40 years ago. The number of European players and top American players was a fraction of what it is now because hockey either hadn't grabbed those markets yet, or they didn't come to the NHL. This is all to say, that I don't think it would even be possible for a player to do what Gretzky did again - the competition is tougher than its ever been. There were far fewer Malkin/Ovechkin, or more recently Kucherov and to a lesser extent Pastrnak/Panarin/Rantanen type players from Europe in the NHL during Gretzky's era.

Gretzky basically played against Canada with a minor presence from the Nordic countries, Russia and the US. McDavid plays against a deeper talent pool of Canada, the US (after several decades building up their program and talent pool), and countries all over Europe (who have also built up their programs and talent pools).

 

[333359]

We're celebrating 4th fastest to do something now? Only in Trump's America.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

The King

The hint are subtitle but he actually the Cray Fish King.

 

[Daximus]

Very cool.

Crosby:
- 2 Art Ross
- 2 Hart
- 3 Ted Lindsay
- 2 Rockets
- 3 Stanley Cups
- 2 Conn Smythe
- 4 First All Star
- 4 Second All Star
- 2 Olympic Gold
- 10th all time in points

McDavid already has more individual trophies, but Sid has 3 Cups and 2 Conn Smythe's and has a good chance to finish his career in the top 5 of points all-time.

I think Crosby will already be considered in the top 5 when he retires and McDavid will make it a top 6, with McDavid likely surpassing Crosby if he manages to win a Cup.

Crosby has had an amazing career but his injuries have probably cost him from being at the top of the pyramid. He has the accolades but it's more about the prime that drags him down. I think he's probably in the 5th-7th area in terms of where he will end up and everyone will have him at a different spot.

I think with a Cup win McDavid has the chance to cement himself as in the conversation for among best all time already though and I'm not so sure Sid would be able to make an argument for being among those 4. With McDavid being only 28 this season he has likely at least 7 more seasons of decent production ahead of him and baring injuries it's pretty likely he surpasses both Sid and Ovi's points totals when all is said and done.

We are likely going to see a lot more high end players finish their careers without a Cup as we go forward. It's harder than ever to win one, with 32 teams and the cap it's gotten tough. I'm not going to hold any international play against McDavid yet as he simply hasn't been given the chance to prove himself there.

 

[Beukeboom]

Not a full rebuttal, but it's worth noting that the talent pool of NHL players was incredibly shallow 30-40 years ago. The number of European players and top American players was a fraction of what it is now because hockey either hadn't grabbed those markets yet, or they didn't come to the NHL. This is all to say, that I don't think it would even be possible for a player to do what Gretzky did again - the competition is tougher than its ever been. There were far fewer Malkin/Ovechkin, or more recently Kucherov and to a lesser extent Pastrnak/Panarin/Rantanen type players from Europe in the NHL during Gretzky's era.

Gretzky basically played against Canada with a minor presence from the Nordic countries, Russia and the US. McDavid plays against a deeper talent pool of Canada, the US (after several decades building up their program and talent pool), and countries all over Europe (who have also built up their programs and talent pools).

Why can't I as a Gretzky fan just be able to go in an enjoy a McDavid thread without stuff like this. In...every...thread....same arguments over and over and over...

1. The best Europeans were in the NHL during Gretzkys prime/late prime (including the Soviets)
2. Gretzky won every scoring race in every international tournament he played in in his prime (78-94)
3. Take 93-94, how come an older Wayne, after the Suter hit/injury, won the Art? Does Jagr, Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny, Selanne, Sundin, Statsny, not count as world class europeans? Are they any worse than Kaprizov, Nylander, Kucherov now? They where all in their peak peak against an off peak Wayne.
4. As a Wayne fan it bothers me that his 1000-2000 run is left out of these lists. That's the second fastest ever, which is the definition of mind boggling.

Finally, incredible feat by McDavid. He is definitely working his way towards Mt Rushmore!

 

[Oilslick941611]

So pointing out facts is trolling now?

My bro. Your post history speaks volumes about your intentions.

On top of that. If you were just pointing out facts you wouldn’t have added that dig about “not very Gretzky like” so again, it goes to your intentions.

 

[elmaco]

I think McDavid is certainly cementing himself on that Mount Rushmore of a hockey. It's pretty well established that there are 4 players who stand alone at the top of the game. Gretz, Lemieux, Orr and Howe. They were all pretty dominant players in their eras and they all transformed the game around them, He's likely going to make it a top 5 when all is said and done. Just based on hardware alone.

Gretz - 10 Ross, 5 Rocket, 9 Hart, 5 Pearson, 2 Smythe, 8 First All Star, 7 Second All Star, 4 Cups

Lemieux - 6 Ross, 3 Rocket, 3 Hart, 4 Pearson, 2 Smythe, 5 First All Star, 4 Second All Star, 2 Cups

Orr - 2 Ross, 3 Hart, 1 Pearson, 2 Smythe, 8 Norris, 8 First All Star, 1 Second All Star, 2 Cups

Howe - 6 Ross, 5 Rocket, 6 Hart, 12 First All Star, 9 Second All Star, 4 Cups
No Smythe existed during Howe's playing time but he likely wins at least 2 based on stats

McDavid - 5 Ross, 1 Rocket, 3 Hart, 4 Pearson, 1 Smythe, 5 First All Star, 2 Second All Star

He's racking up the points to belong in that conversation in his 28 year old season. Sure he doesn't have a Cup yet and that will be a large knock on him but he's also playing in the hardest era to ever win a Cup. 32 teams in a cap era makes it a damn hard feat to do but he does have a finals appearance and a Smythe to go along with it.

I didn't even remember he won a rocket, with 64 goals, that's insane.

 

[joestevens29]

I don’t care what anyone says, but I’m happy to be oiler fan. We don’t even realize how great it is at times. Guy is so special at any given time

 

[Master P]

View attachment 931119
The hint are subtitle but he actually the Cray Fish King.

 

[joestevens29]

Didn't McDavid just lose to Kucherov last year for the Art Ross? On-top of that finish 3rd...not very Gretzky-like.

Man you’re weak

You’re that guy that gets beat up at oilers games for being a prick aren’t you

 

[McOilers97]

Why can't I as a Gretzky fan just be able to go in an enjoy a McDavid thread without stuff like this. In...every...thread....same arguments over and over and over...

1. The best Europeans were in the NHL during Gretzkys prime/late prime (including the Soviets)
2. Gretzky won every scoring race in every international tournament he played in in his prime (78-94)
3. Take 93-94, how come an older Wayne, after the Suter hit/injury, won the Art? Does Jagr, Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny, Selanne, Sundin, Statsny, not count as world class europeans? Are they any worse than Kaprizov, Nylander, Kucherov now? They where all in their peak peak against an off peak Wayne.
4. As a Wayne fan it bothers me that his 1000-2000 run is left out of these lists. That's the second fastest ever, which is the definition of mind boggling.

Finally, incredible feat by McDavid. He is definitely working his way towards Mt Rushmore!

I just want to say - if you take a look at the top scorers in the NHL by decade it breaks down as such:

1980s: 22 of the top 25 were Canadian
1990s: 17 out of top 25 were Canadian
2000s: 12 out of top 25 were Canadian
2010s: 14 out of top 25 were Canadian
2020s so far: 8 out of top 25 are Canadian

Majority of the guys you mentioned, as good as they are, still didn't rank highly in scoring in their respective decades. The only Europeans to be in the top 25 in scoring during Gretzky's era for a particular decade (either the 80s or the 90s) were Stastny, Kurri, Jagr, Sundin, Fedorov, Selanne, Mogilny. And of those, only Stastny, Kurri and Jagr were top 10 in either decade.

In the 2010s and so far in the 2020s, Europeans that are top 10 scorers in either decade include:
- Ovechkin
- Malkin
- Backstrom
- Draisaitl
- Rantanen
- Panarin
- Pastrnak
- Kaprizov

The sheer volume of top European players isn't even comparable then vs now. And most of them now are better (in terms of production, relative to peers) than the guys from the 80s and 90s, with the exception of Jagr.

I can't dispel that Gretzky is the greatest ever, but I can absolutely attribute the way that he lapped the field in the 80s being due to the calibre of his peers being lower.

 

[Beukeboom]

I just want to say - if you take a look at the top scorers in the NHL by decade it breaks down as such:

1980s: 22 of the top 25 were Canadian
1990s: 17 out of top 25 were Canadian
2000s: 12 out of top 25 were Canadian
2010s: 14 out of top 25 were Canadian
2020s so far: 8 out of top 25 are Canadian

Majority of the guys you mentioned, as good as they are, still didn't rank highly in scoring in their respective decades. The only Europeans to be in the top 25 in scoring during Gretzky's era for a particular decade (either the 80s or the 90s) were Stastny, Kurri, Jagr, Sundin, Fedorov, Selanne, Mogilny. And of those, only Stastny, Kurri and Jagr were top 10 in either decade.

In the 2010s and so far in the 2020s, Europeans that are top 10 scorers in either decade include:
- Ovechkin
- Malkin
- Backstrom
- Draisaitl
- Rantanen
- Panarin
- Pastrnak
- Kaprizov

The sheer volume of top European players isn't even comparable then vs now. And most of them now are better (in terms of production, relative to peers) than the guys from the 80s and 90s, with the exception of Jagr.

I can't dispel that Gretzky is the greatest ever, but I can absolutely attribute the way that he lapped the field in the 80s being due to the calibre of his peers being lower.

The problem is that there are so many factors to consider. For instance, there are more competitive sports today in general, meaning the top end talents are drawn to other sports to a higher degree. So it's not necessarily so that there are more top end players today.

There were around 1.3 million registered players in the world in the beginning of the 90's vs 1.7 now. So sure, that's a bigger pool. But that still only equates to an extra 200 players back in the 90's (had they had 1.7 registered players), and very few of them would have been top end competition.

You could also argue that McDavid's main skill: speed, was less useful back in the slash, grab and hook era. People say Gretzky was a perfect storm in a perfect era, but I'd argue the same about McDavid.

Finally, the top end scorers last season (perhaps even seasonS) looked pretty much exactly like back in Wayne's days, with the difference being Wayne at 200+ while the others were in the 100-130s.

Anyway, we could go deeper down the rabbit hole, but to summarize my own beliefs; I do not think the top end talent in the NHL is higher now than in 93-94. It wouldn't change my perception of McDavid's run anyway. It is incredible as is.

 

[Toby91ca]

Gretzky in his prime didn't lose the Art Ross to anyone other than Mario from 1981 thru 1994... McDavid is not even close to that streak and doesn't have a "Mario" chasing behind him.

He also hasn't been outscoring the rest of the league by close to 80pts...higher scoring league or not, change to %ages if you want, but McDavid hasn't dominated the competition anywhere close to what Gretzky did in the 80s. It's not at all a knock on McDavid though, just pointing out facts.

Everyone can talk about how scoring is much harder now and the competition is much greater, mostly just North American players in the 80s, etc. Those are fair arguments, but there is no argument at all in terms of who dominated the competition more. In their Art Ross years (note, Gretzky had 7 straight....left out the other 3 as they weren't as dominant), McDavid's were scattered more.

Gretzky: (lead over #2, % lead over #2 and % lead over #2 in terms of PPG)

1981 - 29pts, 21%, 21%
1982 - 65pts, 44%, 44%
1983 - 72pts, 58%, 48%
1984 - 79pts, 63%, 56%
1985 - 73pts, 54%, 41%
1986 - 74pts, 62%, 51%
1987 - 75pts, 69%, 36%

McDavid:

2017 - 11pts, 12%, 3%
2018 - 6pts, 6%, 1%
2021 - 21pts, 25%, 25%
2022 - 8pts, 7%, 5%
2023 - 25pts, 20%, 17%

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Looks like McDavid overtook Stastny for the player highest on the list without a cup...

There’s always gotta be one storm cloud

edit: the first of many great posts on this thread yikes

 

[5 14 6 1]

Hoping to see him break 2000 in his career. Very likely does so if he plays 10 more years.