Betting odd favorites yes, but around here they apparently are terrible and only have 2 good players.
McDavid becomes the 4th fastest player to reach 1000 points.
- Thread starter McPoyle
- Start date
I don’t think people say they are terrible. They just don’t see a Cup winning team currently.
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
Didn't McDavid just lose to Kucherov last year for the Art Ross? On-top of that finish 3rd...not very Gretzky-like.
Oilslick941611
Registered User
Is all you do troll? Like is your brain wired to see a mcdavid thread and think “oh I should go in there and troll”
Rob Brown
Way She Goes
- Dec 17, 2009
- 17,418
- 14,479
Very cool.
- 2 Art Ross
- 2 Hart
- 3 Ted Lindsay
- 2 Rockets
- 3 Stanley Cups
- 2 Conn Smythe
- 4 First All Star
- 4 Second All Star
- 2 Olympic Gold
- 10th all time in points
McDavid already has more individual trophies, but Sid has 3 Cups and 2 Conn Smythe's and has a good chance to finish his career in the top 5 of points all-time.
I think Crosby will already be considered in the top 5 when he retires and McDavid will make it a top 6, with McDavid likely surpassing Crosby if he manages to win a Cup.
Crosby:
- 2 Art Ross
- 2 Hart
- 3 Ted Lindsay
- 2 Rockets
- 3 Stanley Cups
- 2 Conn Smythe
- 4 First All Star
- 4 Second All Star
- 2 Olympic Gold
- 10th all time in points
McDavid already has more individual trophies, but Sid has 3 Cups and 2 Conn Smythe's and has a good chance to finish his career in the top 5 of points all-time.
I think Crosby will already be considered in the top 5 when he retires and McDavid will make it a top 6, with McDavid likely surpassing Crosby if he manages to win a Cup.
PuckG
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2015
- 4,348
- 6,183
Who could have possible thought you’d be in here in traditional fashion posting something dumb on McDavid?
Now all we need is that one Canucks fan who always goes “Points don’t matter in the NHL” whenever stats are brought up and this thread is truly complete.
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
Gretzky in his prime didn't lose the Art Ross to anyone other than Mario from 1981 thru 1994... McDavid is not even close to that streak and doesn't have a "Mario" chasing behind him.
PuckG
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2015
- 4,348
- 6,183
And he’ll still have a strong case for the 3rd best player to ever play the game with the way he’s trending.
jeffff
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2011
- 955
- 1,307
What is so stupid he only argument you have is comparing him to the best player that ever played the game lmfao There have been 3 ross winners in the last 8 years, Mcdavid has won 5.
Give it a rest already.
Not a full rebuttal, but it's worth noting that the talent pool of NHL players was incredibly shallow 30-40 years ago. The number of European players and top American players was a fraction of what it is now because hockey either hadn't grabbed those markets yet, or they didn't come to the NHL. This is all to say, that I don't think it would even be possible for a player to do what Gretzky did again - the competition is tougher than its ever been. There were far fewer Malkin/Ovechkin, or more recently Kucherov and to a lesser extent Pastrnak/Panarin/Rantanen type players from Europe in the NHL during Gretzky's era.
Gretzky basically played against Canada with a minor presence from the Nordic countries, Russia and the US. McDavid plays against a deeper talent pool of Canada, the US (after several decades building up their program and talent pool), and countries all over Europe (who have also built up their programs and talent pools).
We're celebrating 4th fastest to do something now? Only in Trump's America.
GrumpyKoala
Registered User
- Aug 11, 2020
- 3,572
- 3,825
Crosby has had an amazing career but his injuries have probably cost him from being at the top of the pyramid. He has the accolades but it's more about the prime that drags him down. I think he's probably in the 5th-7th area in terms of where he will end up and everyone will have him at a different spot.
I think with a Cup win McDavid has the chance to cement himself as in the conversation for among best all time already though and I'm not so sure Sid would be able to make an argument for being among those 4. With McDavid being only 28 this season he has likely at least 7 more seasons of decent production ahead of him and baring injuries it's pretty likely he surpasses both Sid and Ovi's points totals when all is said and done.
We are likely going to see a lot more high end players finish their careers without a Cup as we go forward. It's harder than ever to win one, with 32 teams and the cap it's gotten tough. I'm not going to hold any international play against McDavid yet as he simply hasn't been given the chance to prove himself there.
Beukeboom
Registered User
- Apr 1, 2007
- 1,961
- 1,434
Why can't I as a Gretzky fan just be able to go in an enjoy a McDavid thread without stuff like this. In...every...thread....same arguments over and over and over...
1. The best Europeans were in the NHL during Gretzkys prime/late prime (including the Soviets)
2. Gretzky won every scoring race in every international tournament he played in in his prime (78-94)
3. Take 93-94, how come an older Wayne, after the Suter hit/injury, won the Art? Does Jagr, Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny, Selanne, Sundin, Statsny, not count as world class europeans? Are they any worse than Kaprizov, Nylander, Kucherov now? They where all in their peak peak against an off peak Wayne.
4. As a Wayne fan it bothers me that his 1000-2000 run is left out of these lists. That's the second fastest ever, which is the definition of mind boggling.
Finally, incredible feat by McDavid. He is definitely working his way towards Mt Rushmore!
Oilslick941611
Registered User
My bro. Your post history speaks volumes about your intentions.
On top of that. If you were just pointing out facts you wouldn’t have added that dig about “not very Gretzky like” so again, it goes to your intentions.
elmaco
Registered Hockey Fan
- Feb 1, 2017
- 2,378
- 1,454
joestevens29
Registered User
- Apr 30, 2009
- 54,050
- 17,175
joestevens29
Registered User
- Apr 30, 2009
- 54,050
- 17,175
Man you’re weak
You’re that guy that gets beat up at oilers games for being a prick aren’t you
I just want to say - if you take a look at the top scorers in the NHL by decade it breaks down as such:
1980s: 22 of the top 25 were Canadian
1990s: 17 out of top 25 were Canadian
2000s: 12 out of top 25 were Canadian
2010s: 14 out of top 25 were Canadian
2020s so far: 8 out of top 25 are Canadian
Majority of the guys you mentioned, as good as they are, still didn't rank highly in scoring in their respective decades. The only Europeans to be in the top 25 in scoring during Gretzky's era for a particular decade (either the 80s or the 90s) were Stastny, Kurri, Jagr, Sundin, Fedorov, Selanne, Mogilny. And of those, only Stastny, Kurri and Jagr were top 10 in either decade.
In the 2010s and so far in the 2020s, Europeans that are top 10 scorers in either decade include:
- Ovechkin
- Malkin
- Backstrom
- Draisaitl
- Rantanen
- Panarin
- Pastrnak
- Kaprizov
The sheer volume of top European players isn't even comparable then vs now. And most of them now are better (in terms of production, relative to peers) than the guys from the 80s and 90s, with the exception of Jagr.
I can't dispel that Gretzky is the greatest ever, but I can absolutely attribute the way that he lapped the field in the 80s being due to the calibre of his peers being lower.
Last edited:
Beukeboom
Registered User
- Apr 1, 2007
- 1,961
- 1,434
The problem is that there are so many factors to consider. For instance, there are more competitive sports today in general, meaning the top end talents are drawn to other sports to a higher degree. So it's not necessarily so that there are more top end players today.
There were around 1.3 million registered players in the world in the beginning of the 90's vs 1.7 now. So sure, that's a bigger pool. But that still only equates to an extra 200 players back in the 90's (had they had 1.7 registered players), and very few of them would have been top end competition.
You could also argue that McDavid's main skill: speed, was less useful back in the slash, grab and hook era. People say Gretzky was a perfect storm in a perfect era, but I'd argue the same about McDavid.
Finally, the top end scorers last season (perhaps even seasonS) looked pretty much exactly like back in Wayne's days, with the difference being Wayne at 200+ while the others were in the 100-130s.
Anyway, we could go deeper down the rabbit hole, but to summarize my own beliefs; I do not think the top end talent in the NHL is higher now than in 93-94. It wouldn't change my perception of McDavid's run anyway. It is incredible as is.
He also hasn't been outscoring the rest of the league by close to 80pts...higher scoring league or not, change to %ages if you want, but McDavid hasn't dominated the competition anywhere close to what Gretzky did in the 80s. It's not at all a knock on McDavid though, just pointing out facts.
Everyone can talk about how scoring is much harder now and the competition is much greater, mostly just North American players in the 80s, etc. Those are fair arguments, but there is no argument at all in terms of who dominated the competition more. In their Art Ross years (note, Gretzky had 7 straight....left out the other 3 as they weren't as dominant), McDavid's were scattered more.
Gretzky: (lead over #2, % lead over #2 and % lead over #2 in terms of PPG)
1981 - 29pts, 21%, 21%
1982 - 65pts, 44%, 44%
1983 - 72pts, 58%, 48%
1984 - 79pts, 63%, 56%
1985 - 73pts, 54%, 41%
1986 - 74pts, 62%, 51%
1987 - 75pts, 69%, 36%
McDavid:
2017 - 11pts, 12%, 3%
2018 - 6pts, 6%, 1%
2021 - 21pts, 25%, 25%
2022 - 8pts, 7%, 5%
2023 - 25pts, 20%, 17%
Fledgemyhedge
Registered User
There’s always gotta be one storm cloud
edit: the first of many great posts on this thread yikes
