Max Pacioretty: 5 on 5 beast

InglewoodJack · Jan 12, 2015

Hazu said:
I'd love to have him play on the same line as Malkin.

Even as a Habs fan, this would be a dream to watch.

We'll send you some complimentary prospects in a deal to acquire Malkin.

M.C.G. 31 · Jan 12, 2015

He's amazing. If our powerplay wasn't so ****, he'd most likely score 40 goals this year.

And what is this? Anyone who would take Kucherov over Pacioretty is nuts, and I say that as a fan of Kucherov, too. To say Yzerman wouldn't make that trade is insane.

Hazu said:
I'd love to have him play on the same line as Malkin.

In Montreal? :naughty:

KingTux · Jan 12, 2015

This is a good example on how +/- can be useful.

KevinRedkey · Jan 12, 2015

I knew this, but only because I've had Patchs in my hockey pools the last 2.5 years... lol

As for the Kucherov comparison... both are on sweetheart deals, but Patches is way more proven at this point, and Yzerman would be stupid to not accept that deal.

Pacioretty is a top 5 LWer in the NHL, easily.

eklunds source · Jan 12, 2015

Nicko999 said:
I am usually not a fan of the +/- but his +22 is good for 5th in the league.

TT1 said:
+22 this season O.O (yea yea +/- doesnt matter, its still pretty impressive considering that theres no1 on our roster whos remotely close to him)

No, +/- is not pretty impressive. Roughly 75% of a players' goal differential is decided by how well his goaltender and the opposing goaltender performs.

Players cannot impact their goaltenders' save percentage, and only forwards can impact opposing goaltender save percentages, and even then, the effect is minimal and swamped by random noise.

Filip Kuba, in 2010-2011, was -26.
The next season (2011-2012), he finished +26.

Both years, he played mostly with Erik Karlsson. Both years, the Senators slightly outshot the opposition (50.8% in 10-11, 50.7% in 11-12) when he was on the ice.

The difference?

His team scored about 50% more frequently, and goalies behind him performed about 33% better. The result was a jump of +52 at 5v5. For no reason other than how the goalies performed.

This year, when MaxPac has been on the ice, Montreal goaltenders have a 0.954sv% and the Canadiens have shot 10.6%. Literally any player in the league would be in the double digit +'s with percentages like that.

Is MaxPac awesome? Yes.
Is he great defensively? Yes
Does that have anything to do with his +/-? Yes -- better players tend to have a better +/-.
Does that mean his +/- is meaningful? NO.

WeeBey · Jan 12, 2015

eklunds source said:
This year, when MaxPac has been on the ice, Montreal goaltenders have a 0.954sv% and the Canadiens have shot 10.6%. Literally any player in the league would be in the double digit +'s with percentages like that.

Is MaxPac awesome? Yes.
Is he great defensively? Yes
Does that have anything to do with his +/-? Yes -- better players tend to have a better +/-.
Does that mean his +/- is meaningful? NO.

Pacioretty's +/- is double the next best player on the Habs (Dale Weise with +11)

Lebowski · Jan 12, 2015

eklunds source said:
No, +/- is not pretty impressive. Roughly 75% of a players' goal differential is decided by how well his goaltender and the opposing goaltender performs.

Players cannot impact their goaltenders' save percentage, and only forwards can impact opposing goaltender save percentages, and even then, the effect is minimal and swamped by random noise.

Filip Kuba, in 2010-2011, was -26.
The next season (2011-2012), he finished +26.

Both years, he played mostly with Erik Karlsson. Both years, the Senators slightly outshot the opposition (50.8% in 10-11, 50.7% in 11-12) when he was on the ice.

The difference?

Season|On-Ice SH%|On-Ice SV%|PDO (sv% + sv%)
10-11|6.34% (1 goal every 15.8 shots)|0.8896 (1 goal against every 9.1 shots)|95.3
11-12|9.69% (1 goal every 10.3 shots)|0.9260 (1 goal against every 13.5 shots)|102.3

His team scored about 50% more frequently, and goalies behind him performed about 33% better. The result was a jump of +52 at 5v5. For no reason other than how the goalies performed.

This year, when MaxPac has been on the ice, Montreal goaltenders have a 0.954sv% and the Canadiens have shot 10.6%. Literally any player in the league would be in the double digit +'s with percentages like that.

Is MaxPac awesome? Yes.
Is he great defensively? Yes
Does that have anything to do with his +/-? Yes -- better players tend to have a better +/-.
Does that mean his +/- is meaningful? NO.

Compare the +/- with his teammates and linemates and that's where you can see the value of the +/- stat.

Also, players can affect the SV% of a goaltender and that's the very reason why SV% cannot be used as the be-all and end-all argument when comparing goaltenders.

andrjusha · Jan 12, 2015

Nicko999 said:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...l=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=goals_ev

It is definitely interesting how his ESG/GP compares to big4 since the half-season lockout:

Stamkos 98/210=0.47
Pacioretty 84/237=0.35
Malkin 70/207=0.34
Ovechkin 80/245=0.33
Crosby 50/176= 0.28

Mrb1p · Jan 12, 2015

eklunds source said:
No, +/- is not pretty impressive. Roughly 75% of a players' goal differential is decided by how well his goaltender and the opposing goaltender performs.

Players cannot impact their goaltenders' save percentage, and only forwards can impact opposing goaltender save percentages, and even then, the effect is minimal and swamped by random noise.

Filip Kuba, in 2010-2011, was -26.
The next season (2011-2012), he finished +26.

Both years, he played mostly with Erik Karlsson. Both years, the Senators slightly outshot the opposition (50.8% in 10-11, 50.7% in 11-12) when he was on the ice.

The difference?

Season|On-Ice SH%|On-Ice SV%|PDO (sv% + sv%)
10-11|6.34% (1 goal every 15.8 shots)|0.8896 (1 goal against every 9.1 shots)|95.3
11-12|9.69% (1 goal every 10.3 shots)|0.9260 (1 goal against every 13.5 shots)|102.3

His team scored about 50% more frequently, and goalies behind him performed about 33% better. The result was a jump of +52 at 5v5. For no reason other than how the goalies performed.

This year, when MaxPac has been on the ice, Montreal goaltenders have a 0.954sv% and the Canadiens have shot 10.6%. Literally any player in the league would be in the double digit +'s with percentages like that.

Is MaxPac awesome? Yes.
Is he great defensively? Yes
Does that have anything to do with his +/-? Yes -- better players tend to have a better +/-.
Does that mean his +/- is meaningful? NO.

I don't disagree with your point, but this is complete BS. Ask Francis Bouillon, Mike Weaver, Alexei Emelin, Tom Gilbert and Bryan Allen how they impacted Price's Sv % in the last two years, they'll teach you a few tricks.

Davebo* · Jan 12, 2015

Come on Pens - trade Malkin to the Habs. With Malkin gone, Adams will cease living in fear, and start scoring again.

Win-Win

SB164 · Jan 12, 2015

Not only is he a 5 on 5 beast playing against top competition night in and night out, he also plays regularly on the penalty kill.

That Habs Fan · Jan 12, 2015

Somehow, not an all-star

LeHab · Jan 12, 2015

Best part is that he signed a 6 year deal for only $4.5/year in 2012.

Quares27 · Jan 12, 2015

andrjusha said:
It is definitely interesting how his ESG/GP compares to big4 since the half-season lockout:

Stamkos 98/210=0.47
Pacioretty 84/237=0.35
Malkin 70/207=0.34
Ovechkin 80/245=0.33
Crosby 50/176= 0.28

How does his ESA/GP compare to them?

sharks9 · Jan 12, 2015

andrjusha said:
It is definitely interesting how his ESG/GP compares to big4 since the half-season lockout:

Stamkos 98/210=0.47
Pacioretty 84/237=0.35
Malkin 70/207=0.34
Ovechkin 80/245=0.33
Crosby 50/176= 0.28

That's pretty damn impressive. Obviously Stamkos is in a league of his own, but it's impressive that Pacioretty is at the same level as those other guys when it comes to ES scoring.

Rangerfan4life90 · Jan 12, 2015

LeHab said:
Best part is that he signed a 6 year deal for only $4.5/year in 2012.

Definitely one of the biggest steal contracts in the league. Up there with McDonagh and Tavares.

Territory · Jan 12, 2015

I wish he was on my team.

Even though I hate him irrationally.

Riddum · Jan 12, 2015

Too bad the Habs' PP is ****. This is a man who should be a perennial 40 goal scorer in his prime.

Sojourn · Jan 12, 2015

This is a thread about Pacioretty. Let's keep it that way.

Michel Beauchamp · Jan 12, 2015

Quares27 said:
How does his ESA/GP compare to them?

And jealousy rears its ugly head.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Nicko999 · Feb 11, 2015

A little bump... the second on the team is Desharnais at +15. Basically since being put with Patches, Weise and Desharnais have seen their +/- go up. Pretty impressive.

Chfan · Feb 11, 2015

He's pretty amazing.

Sonic Disturbance · Feb 11, 2015

Last year I thought he and JVR were pretty even, with maybe a slight edge to Pacioretty. This year, he's taken the next step and is close to an ideal winger.

JaegerDice · Feb 11, 2015

I already said in a thread on the Blackhawks forum, Pacioretty is on a short list of players I would cut off one of my fingers for to get on the Blackhawks.

Never going to happen, but dare to dream.

...about him on the Hawks, not losing a finger.

Jerk Store* · Feb 11, 2015

He's been amazing the last 2 seasons, but his defensive play this year has been even better.

Crazy how he places himself in a position for a breakaway so often!

Max Pacioretty: 5 on 5 beast

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