Maurice vindicated?

[KingBogo]

Did you read his post? He said Chevy wasn't blameless . Hardly a free pass. Your putting words his mouth.

Ask yourself this question;

Has Chevy brought in enough talent that could reasonably be harnessed into being a good team?

In my view, the answer is yes . The coach, the players, the GM can all share the blame. I would just place the GM 3rd on that list.

After 11 years being 3rd on the blame list is a free pass considering Chevy is responsible for every single player and who coaches the team.

 

[Adam da bomb]

After 11 years being 3rd on the blame list is a free pass considering Chevy is responsible for every single player and who coaches the team.

Chevy can only bring the players in. He is hardly responsible for Schief not playing up to his potential the last 3 years. But, on paper, Schief should be playing like a top 10 centre and the team should be stacked. Chevy also got Schief signed to a fair deal. Chevy can bring in Dillion to pk but if Maurice insists on putting Stanley on our number 1 penalty killing unit it's hardly on him. Chevy is not in the locker room. Yes, he has responsibilities, but, if everyone else doesn't do their job all he can do is fire them.

 

[Jetsfan79]

For me if the building is falling apart at some point the architect needs to take the blame.

Bit of false equivalence in my opinion. The architect is not responsible for ensuring the construction workers are physically doing the job correctly with the raw materials

The analogy I would use is that the GM is the one that provides the ingredients for a meal. The coach is then the chef mixing those ingredients in attempt to make a good meal. The players are like how meal tastes at the end of the day.

In my opinion, Chevy has produced allot of good ingredients. For whatever reason, the coaching staff so far hasn't been able to make a good meal out of those ingredients.

Chevy is not blameless (ingredients can always be better), but I wouldn't be looking at him as the chief (or chef )cause

 

[Adam da bomb]

For me if the building is falling apart at some point the architect needs to take the blame.

The architect can only come up with the blue prints. If over the course of building some of the workers slacked, they used cheap material, people took hammers to the foundation, while the architect has done his job as there was nothing wrong with what he was paid to do, which was simply come up with blue prints.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Bit of false equivalence in my opinion. The architect is not responsible for ensuring the construction workers are physically doing the job correctly with the raw materials

The analogy I would use is that the GM is the one that provides the ingredients for a meal. The coach is then the chef mixing those ingredients in attempt to make a good meal. The players are like how meal tastes at the end of the day.

In my opinion, Chevy has produced allot of good ingredients. For whatever reason, the coaching staff so far hasn't been able to make a good meal out of those ingredients.

Chevy is not blameless, but I wouldn't be looking at him as the chief cause

Yep the GM also provided the ingredients he doesn't know if the coach spit in the food. Also does your analogy make the players too passive? As they are just how the meal tastes but don't take any active role. I've never had to tell a piece of celery be a professional, I don't care that your girlfriend just dumped you, leave the outside world at the door.
Also, that darn tomato is earning 100x as much as the chef.

 

[Guffman]

I can’t really explain why a contending team, on paper, has underperformed this badly. It’s possible that this is just a one year aberration. That said, I am disappointed about the lack of player leadership. Why aren’t we hearing about closed locker room meetings after bad games in a losing streak?

I do think we need to clear out the coaching staff at season’s end but a critical eye needs to look at the player leadership. I am not happy with Wheeler and Schiefele with this in the current and recent years.

 

[KingBogo]

The architect can only come up with the blue prints. If over the course of building some of the workers slacked, they used cheap material, people took hammers to the foundation, while the architect has done his job as there was nothing wrong with what he was paid to do, which was simply come up with blue prints.

Except in a hockey situation the architect gets to make the final decision on removing anyone not doing their job optimally. Gets to decide which materials are used and gets to put in place the foreman that will do what he wants. Again I just don't get why this place is so willing to blame everyone under the sun except the person at the top who is responsible for the final product.

 

[snowkiddin]

Except in a hockey situation the architect gets to make the final decision on removing anyone not doing their job optimally. Gets to decide which materials are used and gets to put in place the foreman that will do what he wants. Again I just don't get why this place is so willing to blame everyone under the sun except the person at the top who is responsible for the final product.

People are literally saying Cheveldayoff owns some of the blame in this thread.

But you are equating people saying Chevy deserves the least amount of blame with him being blameless, which obviously isn’t the case.

 

[KingBogo]

People are literally saying Cheveldayoff owns some of the blame in this thread.

But you are equating people saying Chevy deserves the least amount of blame with him being blameless, which obviously isn’t the case.

But he owns all of the blame since he is the only one who can make the changes people want. Saying he only gets some of the blame is a free pass.

 

[snowkiddin]

But he owns all of the blame since he is the only one who can make the changes people want. Saying he only gets some of the blame is a free pass.

Well, by this logic, wouldn’t that mean all the blame is actually on Chipman?

May as well go higher on the totem pole if Chevy owns ALL of the blame for how the team is performing because he constructed the roster and hired the coaches. Who was the one who hired the GM?

That’s why you can’t place all of the blame on this fiasco on one person. Chevy deserves some of the blame, for sure, but not all of it. And, IMO, he deserves less of the blame than others.

He’s the GM and it’s ultimately his responsibility, so I will agree that he takes some blame.

But if you look at this roster, why are we performing so badly? Because solely (or even mostly because) of Chevy? I just don’t think that’s the truth.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Except in a hockey situation the architect gets to make the final decision on removing anyone not doing their job optimally. Gets to decide which materials are used and gets to put in place the foreman that will do what he wants. Again I just don't get why this place is so willing to blame everyone under the sun except the person at the top who is responsible for the final product.

I'm willing to meet half way with your argument in so much as it's the GM's job to ensure or recognize the coach needs to change or find the right coach . I think Chevy has done an excellent job in bringing in talent. But part his job is also hiring the right people around that talent. So Chevy is not totally blameless . If the next coach he brings in doesn't do the job, then yes , at that point yes, he will and should take a big part of the Blame.

 

[WpgSteve]

The only major knocks against Chevy are Wheeler's contract and keeping Maurice around too long. I suspect it's actually Chipman to blame for both decisions though.

I still remember the presser after Wheeler's extension. I was mad at Chevy until Chipman took the mic. He was so pleased with himself.

 

[KingBogo]

Well, by this logic, wouldn’t that mean all the blame is actually on Chipman?

May as well go higher on the totem pole if Chevy owns ALL of the blame for how the team is performing because he constructed the roster and hired the coaches. Who was the one who hired the GM?

That’s why you can’t place all of the blame on this fiasco on one person. Chevy deserves some of the blame, for sure, but not all of it. And, IMO, he deserves less of the blame than others.

He’s the GM and it’s ultimately his responsibility, so I will agree that he takes some blame.

But if you look at this roster, why are we performing so badly? Because solely (or even mostly because) of Chevy? I just don’t think that’s the truth.

Except Chipman owns the company. And the person who has all the skin in the game is only responsible to business partners, share holders and their customers. Which is us, but lucky for him we are all fixated on blaming people well down the chain from him. I'll agree it is on him to fire Chevy, but in terms of hockey operations Chevy is the person that the finger should be pointed at.

 

[flyingkiwi]

Oops wrong thread.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Except in a hockey situation the architect gets to make the final decision on removing anyone not doing their job optimally. Gets to decide which materials are used and gets to put in place the foreman that will do what he wants. Again I just don't get why this place is so willing to blame everyone under the sun except the person at the top who is responsible for the final product.

As @snowkiddin said Chevy is not the totem pole. He has a boss which is Chippman or you could argue the Winnipeg Jets fans who tolerated having a losing team for so long. So there ya have it. But, if we prefer to break down how each person has done what we have defined their job is, hiring coach, signing players to a fair deal, trades, signings, then Chevy has done his job reasonably well. Maurice job of getting the most out of the players he has available, putting in a system, getting effort out of his players, there is more of a shortcoming. Did Maurice not have the players available? Do you think that Stanley should be on the top pk unit over Dillion? Schief on paper should be good, but, he has not been putting in effort. So are you arguing Chevy should have traded him, instead of hoping that Schief would figure things out?

 

[Adam da bomb]

Except Chipman owns the company. And the person who has all the skin in the game is only responsible to business partners, share holders and their customers. Which is us, but lucky for him we are all fixated on blaming people well down the chain from him. I'll agree it is on him to fire Chevy, but in terms of hockey operations Chevy is the person that the finger should be pointed at.

And Chevy is only responsible to Chipman, his boss. Also, why as fans do we need to know who to blame? Why can't we just say something is broken and I want someone to fix it. This is the most convoluted defense of Maurice I've ever heard.

 

[snowkiddin]

Except Chipman owns the company. And the person who has all the skin in the game is only responsible to business partners, share holders and their customers. Which is us, but lucky for him we are all fixated on blaming people well down the chain from him. I'll agree it is on him to fire Chevy, but in terms of hockey operations Chevy is the person that the finger should be pointed at.

I guess where I’m struggling to get on board with you, is what could Chevy have done radically different (especially coming into this season) to ensure a better season?

He brought in two top 4 defensemen to fill out the blueline. The team, on paper, which is what Chevy is responsible for, was thought by many, including national pundits, to be a Cup contender this year. I know I came into the season with high expectations. I’m sure if someone came in here during the offseason and said we’d be shit this year they would have gotten flamed. So, on paper this is a good team. On the ice, not so much. But where does the blame fall?

Chevy is responsible for the lack of depth scoring on this team, but also, was this expected to be as much of a problem as it is? Is it solely Chevy’s fault? Chevy, IMO, held onto Maurice too long. So that’s a knock against him too from my perspective.

Is Chevy responsible for our coaches breaking up a solid line at the start of the year by moving Svech down to get Wheeler going? Is he responsible for our god awful PK system (it’s improved lately at least)? Is he responsible for Scheifele not giving a shit this year?

Yes, he’s responsible for the players on the ice but at the beginning of the season he had provided a roster that was supposed to succeed. Do you dump Scheifele in the offseason? Of course not.

The team is clearly in trouble now and it’s Chevy’s mess to fix, and if he doesn’t do it, he can go, but ultimately the team Chevy built was SUPPOSED to be good.

Unless we all knew the team was shit and terribly constructed back last offseason.

 

[Hunter368]

Im on board with this sentiment. I dont think Chevy's to blame here.

The fact that the Sports Analysts continue to predict Winnipeg going on a long playoff run (year in and year out) due to the Teams appearance on paper would suggest Chevy has put together a pretty solid team.

The pieces are there to go on a Playoff run. The Team just has to put in the work.

This summer, Chevy either gets new coach(s) or I’m not going to be happy though

 

[jetsforever]

Just because the Jets aren't playing great now doesn't mean Maurice was a good coach
Here are some possible other explanations: Lowry also isn't good, Lowry hasn't had enough time yet, the COVID interruptions are causing issues, it's just a regular slump, etc.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Except Chipman owns the company. And the person who has all the skin in the game is only responsible to business partners, share holders and their customers. Which is us, but lucky for him we are all fixated on blaming people well down the chain from him. I'll agree it is on him to fire Chevy, but in terms of hockey operations Chevy is the person that the finger should be pointed at.

Quick question, would you agree that getting Schmidt and Dillon were great moves by Chevy?

 

[KingBogo]

I guess where I’m struggling to get on board with you, is what could Chevy have done radically different (especially coming into this season) to ensure a better season?

He brought in two top 4 defensemen to fill out the blueline. The team, on paper, which is what Chevy is responsible for, was thought by many, including national pundits, to be a Cup contender this year. I know I came into the season with high expectations. I’m sure if someone came in here during the offseason and said we’d be shit this year they would have gotten flamed. So, on paper this is a good team. On the ice, not so much. But where does the blame fall?

Chevy is responsible for the lack of depth scoring on this team, but also, was this expected to be as much of a problem as it is? Is it solely Chevy’s fault? Chevy, IMO, held onto Maurice too long. So that’s a knock against him too from my perspective.

Is Chevy responsible for our coaches breaking up a solid line at the start of the year by moving Svech down to get Wheeler going? Is he responsible for our god awful PK system (it’s improved lately at least)? Is he responsible for Scheifele not giving a shit this year?

Yes, he’s responsible for the players on the ice but at the beginning of the season he had provided a roster that was supposed to succeed. Do you dump Scheifele in the offseason? Of course not.

The team is clearly in trouble now and it’s Chevy’s mess to fix, and if he doesn’t do it, he can go, but ultimately the team Chevy built was SUPPOSED to be good.

Unless we all knew the team was shit and terribly constructed back last offseason.

But hasn't it been his job to fix things by now? I've been around here pretty much from day 1 of the Jets return and I've seen every single coach including assistants blamed for our failure, literally hundreds of players who have been singled out for blame. Scouts blamed even. But year after year people say Chevy has done a good job, but needs to fix things otherwise I will be mad at him. But then when he doesn't fix things we just find some other target to blame and say Chevy needs to fix things otherwise I will be mad at him giving him yet another pass. Spit, rinse and repeat season after season.

 

[snowkiddin]

But hasn't it been his job to fix things by now? I've been around here pretty much from day 1 of the Jets return and I've seen every single coach including assistants blamed for our failure, literally hundreds of players who have been singled out for blame. Scouts blamed even. But year after year people say Chevy has done a good job, but needs to fix things otherwise I will be mad at him. But then when he doesn't fix things we just find some other target to blame and say Chevy needs to fix things otherwise I will be mad at him giving him yet another pass. Spit, rinse and repeat season after season.

I guess I just see that he did at least try to fix the issues this past summer when he brought in Schmidt and Dillon. I recall a great many of us applauding those moves and then saying it’s up to Maurice now to get this roster to the finish line. That hasn’t happened.

In retrospect, were the moves to bring in Dillon and Schmidt not good? I still am not sure what else he could’ve done for the team this offseason.

 

[Adam da bomb]

But he owns all of the blame since he is the only one who can make the changes people want. Saying he only gets some of the blame is a free pass.

But aren't you essentially giving all the players a pass? coaches, a pass. You literally said He owns all the blame.
Chevy is the only one who can fire, hire, trade. But, I hope everyone takes some responsibility for the sinking ship even if Chevy owns more than the next man.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I guess I just see that he did at least try to fix the issues this past summer when he brought in Schmidt and Dillon. I recall a great many of us applauding those moves and then saying it’s up to Maurice now to get this roster to the finish line. That hasn’t happened.

In retrospect, were the moves to bring in Dillon and Schmidt not good? I still am not sure what else he could’ve done for the team this offseason.

Fired Maurice?

 

[gojetsgo]

lowry vindicated?