Maurice vindicated?

[Gm0ney]

Yes, Paul shrewdly ascertained that all the Panthers needed was the 3rd best playoff goaltending performance in 43 years...



Not having Charlie Huddy iceberging the Titanic probably helps too (although Florida's not exactly air-tight defensively either...but wgaf when you're getting .971 goaltending?)

 

[Daximus]

I think it's important to see the kind of hockey the Panthers are playing and the kind of hockey the Jets played under Maurice. It's virtually identical.

Alleviate pressure with flip outs, play a passive collapsing PK, don't have to necessarily keep shots to the outside but make sure to box out so the goalie has a chance to see the puck, dump the puck in and use an aggressive forecheck and maintain a cycle to open up space down the middle, don't worry about winning the corsi battle because it doesn't really matter how many you get, it's all about the quality of the shots.

Maurice is doing everything he was criticized for here in Florida and it's showing the same results. Now the Cats are 4 wins away from a SC and all the sudden his system is looking a lot better. But it shouldn't be understated how good players like Barkov, Bennett and Tkachuk can work in this kind of system.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I for one was critical of Maurice's systems, I didn't think they were winning systems, and maybe it had more to do with the defensive systems put in by assistant coach.

But I have to give it to PoMo on getting the hell out of the organization at the right time, he knew he didn't have the room, he knew the attitudes of the "core leadership" was toxic and that if he hung around to finish his contract it would only sour his reputation. Smart man....we all didn;t know why he left when he did. But he did it at the right time.

This is on the players....look at how passionate, excited and into it the Florida group is. Hurricanes group took the high road and were accountable to themselves for the loss.

Jets players just banded together and went after Bowness as the bad guy. Jets are broken!

I had a somewhat similar thought to the bolded, that I expressed early in this thread.

I have a different vindication possibility that will take some time to figure out. Maurice isnt a great coach, but he has been around hockey all his life and is hockey smart. I think it is possible that he recognized that TNSE expectations of this roster are totally out of wack. Chevy believes he has built a contender. Maybe Maurice sees a team more on par with the Atlanta Jets that arrived 10 years ago. Rather than have that frank discussion with the guy responsible for being back where things started after a decade, and who doesnt want to hear it, he found a way to keep getting paid and be able to walk out the door and avoid the hassle of it all. Possibility?

 

[Royale With Cheese]

I think it's important to see the kind of hockey the Panthers are playing and the kind of hockey the Jets played under Maurice. It's virtually identical.

Alleviate pressure with flip outs, play a passive collapsing PK, don't have to necessarily keep shots to the outside but make sure to box out so the goalie has a chance to see the puck, dump the puck in and use an aggressive forecheck and maintain a cycle to open up space down the middle, don't worry about winning the corsi battle because it doesn't really matter how many you get, it's all about the quality of the shots.

Maurice is doing everything he was criticized for here in Florida and it's showing the same results. Now the Cats are 4 wins away from a SC and all the sudden his system is looking a lot better. But it shouldn't be understated how good players like Barkov, Bennett and Tkachuk can work in this kind of system.

Good post. Coaches can get too much praise and too much criticism. Sometimes, some systems just work better or worse with different players. He's definitely riding a super hot goalie which makes everyone around him look better.

I didn't watch all the games, or even that closely, but when I did, it seemed Tkachuk was often within 1-3 feet of the opposition goalie. Absolutely clutch player.

 

[Heldig]

I think it's important to see the kind of hockey the Panthers are playing and the kind of hockey the Jets played under Maurice. It's virtually identical.

Alleviate pressure with flip outs, play a passive collapsing PK, don't have to necessarily keep shots to the outside but make sure to box out so the goalie has a chance to see the puck, dump the puck in and use an aggressive forecheck and maintain a cycle to open up space down the middle, don't worry about winning the corsi battle because it doesn't really matter how many you get, it's all about the quality of the shots.

Maurice is doing everything he was criticized for here in Florida and it's showing the same results. Now the Cats are 4 wins away from a SC and all the sudden his system is looking a lot better. But it shouldn't be understated how good players like Barkov, Bennett and Tkachuk can work in this kind of system.

Exactly.

The only one we have like that is Lowry and he is not remotely as skilled.

After the hugely successful season - 2nd overall in the league - the Jets were a feared team. Every market talked about how big and aggressive and skilled the Jets were.

Then we stopped playing that way. I have looked for the presser where PoMo talked about that style not being sustainable and they needed to change. The team was never the same.

 

[Gordon112358]

I have no issues with Paul Maurice. I believe he was a reasonably competent coach with the Jets but his messaging just fell on deaf ears and he decided to move on. I am happy that Florida is doing well and I honestly hope he brings them a cup. Yes he is riding some hot goaltending but every Stanley Cup winner will boast a goalie who played extremely well for 4 rounds.
Maurice has been a coach for a very long time so having his legacy capped off with a Cup win would be icing on the cake for his career. Have there been better coaches? Of course. But very few coaches ever win a Cup so his history will be cemented if he can knock off Vegas.

 

[Daximus]

Good post. Coaches can get too much praise and too much criticism. Sometimes, some systems just work better or worse with different players. He's definitely riding a super hot goalie which makes everyone around him look better.

I didn't watch all the games, or even that closely, but when I did, it seemed Tkachuk was often within 1-3 feet of the opposition goalie. Absolutely clutch player.

Yeah I often think it wasn't just the players that drove Maurice out of Winnipeg but the fan base as well and to be fair the team looked like they had given up on his system so I think it was time for a change either way. The fact he actually quit on his team rather than being fired is more on our management than anything and their complete unwillingness to change anything.

Exactly.

The only one we have like that is Lowry and he is not remotely as skilled.

After the hugely successful season - 2nd overall in the league - the Jets were a feared team. Every market talked about how big and aggressive and skilled the Jets were.

Then we stopped playing that way. I have looked for the presser where PoMo talked about that style not being sustainable and they needed to change. The team was never the same.

I think it's important to remember the kind of defence core he had to work with on our run. Trouba, Buff, Morrissey, Myers, Enstrom and Chiarot was a damn good defensive core at the time and arguably the best core in the league. In a matter of a very short period of time Morrissey is all that remained from that core.

We had plenty of bang and crash to our game at that time as well. Scheif and Wheels both played heavy games and weren't afraid to get dirty. We had one of the best bang and crash 3rd lines in the league with Lowry, Tanev and Copp. Stastny knew his way around the front of the net. We could play a lot meaner with Buff and Trouba on the backend as well, policing the front of the net.

The team we currently have is a shell of that 2018 team and it all fell apart rather quickly. Some of that is on our management and some of it is just on the players putting us between a rock and a hard place. Eventually the remains of that core was largely more skilled than physical and Maurice's system is just not really attuned to that style of play.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Tempted to reread first few pages of this thread to see who was taking a sh*t on Moe and replying to them.

Stuck in Winnipeg this week. I GOT TIME TO KILL!!

That would be awesome! And not at all weird! lol

 

[Heldig]

Yeah I often think it wasn't just the players that drove Maurice out of Winnipeg but the fan base as well and to be fair the team looked like they had given up on his system so I think it was time for a change either way. The fact he actually quit on his team rather than being fired is more on our management than anything and their complete unwillingness to change anything.



I think it's important to remember the kind of defence core he had to work with on our run. Trouba, Buff, Morrissey, Myers, Enstrom and Chiarot was a damn good defensive core at the time and arguably the best core in the league. In a matter of a very short period of time Morrissey is all that remained from that core.

We had plenty of bang and crash to our game at that time as well. Scheif and Wheels both played heavy games and weren't afraid to get dirty. We had one of the best bang and crash 3rd lines in the league with Lowry, Tanev and Copp. Stastny knew his way around the front of the net. We could play a lot meaner with Buff and Trouba on the backend as well, policing the front of the net.

The team we currently have is a shell of that 2018 team and it all fell apart rather quickly. Some of that is on our management and some of it is just on the players putting us between a rock and a hard place. Eventually the remains of that core was largely more skilled than physical and Maurice's system is just not really attuned to that style of play.

Spot on.

That D was great. Envy of the league. Chevy botched it ( not all his fault of course).

Important to note Scheifele was a regarded as a top player in the game at the time. Big, skilled 200 foot centre that everyone raved about his commitment to the game. His game has regressed mightily.

 

[Daximus]

Spot on.

That D was great. Envy of the league. Chevy botched it ( not all his fault of course).

Important to note Scheifele was a regarded as a top player in the game at the time. Big, skilled 200 foot centre that everyone raved about his commitment to the game. His game has regressed mightily.

I agree some of it was just circumstance (Myers, Chiarot, Enstrom) Some of it was team incompetence (Buff) and some of it was just completely outside of our control entirely (Trouba).

I think it helps being a solid 200ft player when you have a Dcore like we used to have. Means you have to do a lot less work in your own end and can focus on being more of a play driver than a play disrupter. I don't think the way Scheif plays the game has really changed all that much, he's just being exposed more because he doesn't have the same help he used to have and his lack of ability in being a 200ft center is just more noticeable.

 

[wpgallday1960]

I agree some of it was just circumstance (Myers, Chiarot, Enstrom) Some of it was team incompetence (Buff) and some of it was just completely outside of our control entirely (Trouba).

I think it helps being a solid 200ft player when you have a Dcore like we used to have. Means you have to do a lot less work in your own end and can focus on being more of a play driver than a play disrupter. I don't think the way Scheif plays the game has really changed all that much, he's just being exposed more because he doesn't have the same help he used to have and his lack of ability in being a 200ft center is just more noticeable.

Generally I agree but I don’t see how losing Buff was due to incompetence. He spent 1/2 of 18/19 injured and lost the desire to play any further. Unfortunate the way it ended but I don’t see how they could have kept him beyond his last season.

 

[LowLefty]

I agree some of it was just circumstance (Myers, Chiarot, Enstrom) Some of it was team incompetence (Buff) and some of it was just completely outside of our control entirely (Trouba).

I think it helps being a solid 200ft player when you have a Dcore like we used to have. Means you have to do a lot less work in your own end and can focus on being more of a play driver than a play disrupter. I don't think the way Scheif plays the game has really changed all that much, he's just being exposed more because he doesn't have the same help he used to have and his lack of ability in being a 200ft center is just more noticeable.

The biggest change is his ozone game - he was once dominant in hanging onto pucks and grinding it out along the walls - he usually won those battles and would spend most of the shift in the ozone.
That's changed - and now we see more of him defending which I agree, was never really a strong part of his game.
You're also right about the help - him and Wheels both played that way and could cycle with the best of them. They could wear you out with the O style and could leave the most of the defensive heavy lifting to our Dmen.

 

[Daximus]

Generally I agree but I don’t see how losing Buff was due to incompetence. He spent 1/2 of 18/19 injured and lost the desire to play any further. Unfortunate the way it ended but I don’t see how they could have kept him beyond his last season.

Well they mismanaged his injury completely, pretty much telling him he didn't need surgery. When he consulted outside help, he was told he should 100% get the surgery. There was even a PA grievance filed with the league about it. Both eventually came to terms and the team terminated his contract and he retired right then and there. Had they not mismanaged his injury he may have been able to play longer and the bad blood between the player and the team likely never happens.

The biggest change is his ozone game - he was once dominant in hanging onto pucks and grinding it out along the walls - he usually won those battles and would spend most of the shift in the ozone.
That's changed - and now we see more of him defending which I agree, was never really a strong part of his game.
You're also right about the help - him and Wheels both played that way and could cycle with the best of them. They could wear you out with the O style and could leave the most of the defensive heavy lifting to our Dmen.

Yeah Wheels is definitely a shell of his former self and given those two seemed to be joined at the hip more often than not. That probably has a lot to do with it. Our other two major replacers in Connor and Ehlers are more off the rush players than dump and chase so Scheifele is kind of on an island as the dump, chase and cycle guy on the team now. I think he'd be in heaven if we had a player like Tkachuk on this team. Those players are generally pretty rare though.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

This is more of a hot goalie and hot at the right time scenario than some grand vindication imo.

They only even made the playoffs because Pittsburgh lost to the Blackhawks in the last week of the season.

Paul is what he is, decent coach who wore out his welcome here. The players and GM were just as at fault as he was but there was no need to keep him around.

 

[Guffman]

Yes, Paul shrewdly ascertained that all the Panthers needed was the 3rd best playoff goaltending performance in 43 years...



Not having Charlie Huddy iceberging the Titanic probably helps too (although Florida's not exactly air-tight defensively either...but wgaf when you're getting .971 goaltending?)

Dishonest post when the stats are just talking about conference finals, while the other recent article was talking more generally about Florida’s new approach this year under Maurice.

Your post is what I would call an f-ing sh*t post, Mr Lahey.

 

[Ducky10]

I think it's crucial to be real here. I don't think it was the players that made Maurice resign.



Scheifele was solid in our run to the WCF. I still think we thoroughly outplayed Vegas that series and MAF was the difference.

I agree the Jets outplayed Vegas that series and MAF was the difference. As solid as Scheifele was, I don’t think he had the level of impact we’re seeing Tkachuk have with Florida. If it wasn’t for Bobber, Tkachuk is the Conn Smythe favourite right now.

 

[Ducky10]

Dishonest post when the stats are just talking about conference finals, while the other recent article was talking more generally about Florida’s new approach this year under Maurice.

Your post is what I would call an f-ing sh*t post, Mr Lahey.

The new approach that saw them make the playoffs only because Pittsburgh couldn’t manage to beat the Isles with their season on the line, on the last day? It’s not dishonest in the least to state that Bob is the single biggest reason for Florida’s playoff success so far. Not the only reason but by far the most significant.

 

[surixon]

The new approach that saw them make the playoffs only because Pittsburgh couldn’t manage to beat the Isles with their season on the line, on the last day? It’s not dishonest in the least to state that Bob is the single biggest reason for Florida’s playoff success so far. Not the only reason but by far the most significant.

Yeah you get high end Vezina caliber tending like he's given them and you will win more then you lose. The Panthers have been largely out played this post season but there players are finishing and their goalie is standing on his head.

You'd think Jets fans would know this pattern. We lived it for years here with Helle standing on his head and our forwards finishing above expected.

 

[Buffdog]

The new approach that saw them make the playoffs only because Pittsburgh couldn’t manage to beat the Isles with their season on the line, on the last day? It’s not dishonest in the least to state that Bob is the single biggest reason for Florida’s playoff success so far. Not the only reason but by far the most significant.

Why is it that when one position carries a team, there's only an * when it's the goalie

How many times did people say "the only reason Pittsburgh won the cup was because of their centres playing lights out"

The goalie is a member of the team like everyone else

 

[surixon]

Why is it that when one position carries a team, there's only an * when it's the goalie

How many times did people say "the only reason Pittsburgh won the cup was because of their centres playing lights out"

The goalie is a member of the team like everyone else

I mean that is what most people say about the Pens cup wins lol.

Your right he is part of the team and has driven his team to a cup finals appearance. Can't take that away and hey he might lead them to a cup which means the same thing no matter how its achieved.

 

[Aries56]

Maybe Paul Maurice is a good coach, but he's hands off when it comes to the locker room. Florida has some strong personalities, so letting the locker room run itself works.

In Winnipeg, it lead to guys like Laine being singled out because he didn't fit the Wheeler / Scheifele mould.

That's why Bones has had such a difficult time now taking back control of the locker room. The Jets "leadership" doesn't want to give up the keys.

No matter how good of a coach Maurice is, he's no longer the fit for what Winnipeg needs because we have that power struggle. The only hope we could have had while still having Maurice would have been to find better leadership and probably ship out the guys who aren't taking the right leadership approach.

Teams that win usually have bonafide leaders.

 

[snowkiddin]

Why is it that when one position carries a team, there's only an * when it's the goalie

How many times did people say "the only reason Pittsburgh won the cup was because of their centres playing lights out"

The goalie is a member of the team like everyone else

Hey, man, I’ve been beating the drum that the Oilers would be a shitass lottery team if they hadn’t fumbled their way into McDavid for years now

 

[Daximus]

Yeah you get high end Vezina caliber tending like he's given them and you will win more then you lose. The Panthers have been largely out played this post season but there players are finishing and their goalie is standing on his head.

You'd think Jets fans would know this pattern. We lived it for years here with Helle standing on his head and our forwards finishing above expected.

I think that is just how Maurice likes his team to play. It's a streaky way to play, it requires buy in from everyone, it's a really hard way to play but it focuses less on possession and more on attacking the puck.

It's generally what we saw here and it completely flies in the face of modern possession driven analytics. Are Mo's teams getting outplayed because they are losing the corsi and shot battle. Or are they driving their opponents through a wall, allowing their goaltender to get into the game and capitalizing on the opposition making mistakes due to the high pressure?

I mean that is what most people say about the Pens cup wins lol.

Your right he is part of the team and has driven his team to a cup finals appearance. Can't take that away and hey he might lead them to a cup which means the same thing no matter how its achieved.

Honestly if Murray didn't come in and bail MAF out against the Sens then the Sens probably win the Cup that year.

 

[Daximus]

I agree the Jets outplayed Vegas that series and MAF was the difference. As solid as Scheifele was, I don’t think he had the level of impact we’re seeing Tkachuk have with Florida. If it wasn’t for Bobber, Tkachuk is the Conn Smythe favourite right now.

At the time Scheif was leading the playoffs in goals and was by far our best player no questions asked really. If we managed to win 3 more games and Scheif got a crack at the Cup then there was a pretty good chance he could have made a run at the record. He just got completely blanked by MAF, as did the rest of the team. His biggest issue right now is staying healthy or not getting suspended.

 

[Guffman]

The new approach that saw them make the playoffs only because Pittsburgh couldn’t manage to beat the Isles with their season on the line, on the last day? It’s not dishonest in the least to state that Bob is the single biggest reason for Florida’s playoff success so far. Not the only reason but by far the most significant.

Interesting that you just breezed through and ignored Bob’s 50 games regular season stats… 3.07 GAA .901 save percentage. So terrible that Maurice had to use a back-up with 39 career regular season games to start against Boston. But nahhh, let’s gloss over that simply to denigrate Maurice.

“It’s not dishonest in the least to state that Bob is the single biggest reason for Florida’s playoff success so far.”

Are you really being this flipping lazy to ignore context of what slop I was replying too?

@Gm0ney links a pro-friendly Maurice and tries to counter it saying it’s nonsense since Bob has had the third best playoff goaltending in the past 43 years. Of course, the source of that was only conference final statistics, not that generalization @Gm0ney was trying to pass off.

If you guys want to make improper conclusions based on select stats and gloss over things, expect to be called out by me.