Maurice Richard Trophy Tournament (1995-Present) Round 1: 2022 Auston Matthews vs 2006 Jonathan Cheechoo

[blundluntman]

MATCHUP #3 (Round 1): Auston Matthews (2022) vs Jonathan Cheechoo (2006)

Auston Matthews (2021-22):

Games Played	Goals	Even Strength Goals	Power Play Goals	League Wide Goals Per Game
73	60	44	16	3.14

Jonathan Cheechoo (2005-06):

Games Played	Goals	Even Strength Goals	Power Play Goals	League Wide Goals Per Game
82	56	30	24	3.08

Round 1 Matchups
24 Matthews vs 97 Tkachuk Thread
23 McDavid vs 17 Crosby Thread
22 Matthews vs 06 Cheechoo
21 Matthews vs 16 Ovechkin
20 Pastrnak vs 20 Ovechkin
19 Ovechkin vs 18 Ovechkin
15 Ovechkin vs 12 Stamkos
14 Ovechkin vs 09 Ovechkin
13 Ovechkin vs 95 Bondra
11 Perry vs 00 Bure
10 Stamkos vs 10 Crosby
08 Ovechkin vs 01 Bure
07 Lecavalier vs 02 Iginla
04 Nash vs 04 Iginla vs 04 Kovalchuk
03 Hejduk vs 96 Lemieux
99 Selanne vs 99 Bondra

Note: Due to the Richard Trophy not having a tiebreaker, I will conduct one myself in the first round to avoid matchup complications in later rounds.

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[Toby91ca]

You shouldn't be allowed to vote for Cheechoo here unless you provide your detailed analysis as to why

 

[Regal]

Pretty clear cut. More goals, fewer games, similar environment, no Thornton.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Pretty clear cut. More goals, fewer games, similar environment, no Thornton.

Playing fewer games doesn’t benefit the team, so I’m not sure why it would benefit a player in a comparison over which “season” was better.

Agree Matthews didn’t have a Thornton although his supporting cast was still pretty good.

I’m voting Matthews btw.

 

[Regal]

Playing fewer games doesn’t benefit the team, so I’m not sure why it would benefit a player in a comparison over which “season” was better.

Agree Matthews didn’t have a Thornton although his supporting cast was still pretty good.

I’m voting Matthews btw.

If we were pacing seasons in order to put one ahead, I’d agree, but I think scoring the same or better in fewer games is more valuable, because someone is replacing your minutes in the other games and they might score more as well. Maybe not in an overall player comparison, because there’s other factors a player contributes to when in the lineup, but in terms of best goal scoring season, I think it does.

 

[Letsdothis]

Playing fewer games doesn’t benefit the team, so I’m not sure why it would benefit a player in a comparison over which “season” was better.

Presumably any replacing player would score some goals given the opportunity, making scoring the same amount of goals in lesser games more valuable in terms of increasing the total amount of goals scored for the team.

I could see there being some reasoning to having an elite player play through the entire season being equally valuable though. Consistently added value may be more valuable (though I'm not entirely sure about that, hard to prove except through simulations) and you could argue there's a certain threshold where you go above it it doesn't add as much value as you lose when you go below a certain level of performance. But with something as straigth up quantifiable as goals scored, I'm pretty sure that a player that scores say 60 goals in 70 games, with regards to their goalscoring, is clearly more valuable than a player that scores 60 goals in 82 games.

 

[bobholly39]

Cheechoo has 7 goals in first 24 games. Also - going into game 25, he had and 8 game sreak of 0 goals.

On game 25 - Thornton arrived. Cheechoo scores 2 goals that first game, and 49 over final 58 games.

Matthews also started slow. 7 goals in 17 games. I think I remember he was injured at start of season? But I could be mixing up seasons.

On game 18 - he went on to start a streak of his own, 51 goals in 50 games. He then got injured again near end of that stretch - and finishes the year with 5 games in a row with 0 goals, before potting 2 in the final game.

In my opinion - Matthews definitely has the better goal-scoring season here. But it's also unfortunate - I feel as though injuries impeded him a lot. I think he could have pushed for close to ~65-70 without any injury that year.

 

[Midnight Judges]

If we were pacing seasons in order to put one ahead, I’d agree, but I think scoring the same or better in fewer games is more valuable, because someone is replacing your minutes in the other games and they might score more as well. Maybe not in an overall player comparison, because there’s other factors a player contributes to when in the lineup, but in terms of best goal scoring season, I think it does.

Yeah, I agree but that's generally a replacement level player, as in, likely very low productivity. Or else other players are stretching their minutes beyond what the coaches thought optimal.

 

[Albatros]

Cheechoo, just because he's always dissed for a great award-winning season.

 

[Toby91ca]

Cheechoo, just because he's always dissed for a great award-winning season.

So...for no good reason then?

 

[Albatros]

In the decade between 1997 and 2007 only Cheechoo and Bure scored 56 goals in a season.

 

[Regal]

Yeah, I agree but that's generally a replacement level player, as in, likely very low productivity. Or else other players are stretching their minutes beyond what the coaches thought optimal.

Well it’s more that everyone loves up so Matthews is out and the 13th guy comes in, but maybe Nylander gets more looks on the PP, or Marner plays more with Tavares who then does better, etc. I don’t think it’s a major factor here, I just think it’s hard to say a goal scoring season is better if it wasn’t more productive despite a few more games played. It would be different if Matthews had say 45 in 55 games or something, because it’s a better pace than Cheechoo but would involve projection

 

[Video Nasty]

In the decade between 1997 and 2007 only Cheechoo and Bure scored 56 goals in a season.

Cheechoo, just because he's always dissed for a great award-winning season.

You judge players with such wild inconsistency.

 

[SEALBound]

It's Matthews but man remembering Cheechoo and that 05-06 seasons brings back a lot of good memories so I gave the throwaway nostalgia vote to him.

 

[Voight]

In the decade between 1997 and 2007 only Cheechoo and Bure scored 56 goals in a season.

There's a reason for that. Majority of that was the DPE.

 

[tabness]

Cheechoo played in the old NHL so obviously him by default, stats don't count post 2005

 

[filinski77]

Stats:
Matthews beats him in raw goals, goals/gp, adjusted, and dominance vs. peers. This is cut and dry.

	Cheechoo	Matthews
Goals	56​	60​
Goals/gp	0.68	0.82
Adj goals	56​	58​
Vs 2nd	4%​	9%​
Vs 5th	12%​	28%​
Vs 10th	40%​	43%​
Vs 20th	60%​	62%​

 

[filinski77]

Side note: Why are 2014 and 2009 Ovechkin going up against each other? Those are both arguably top-10 goal scoring seasons from this time period.

 

[blundluntman]

Side note: Why are 2014 and 2009 Ovechkin going up against each other? Those are both arguably top-10 goal scoring seasons from this time period.

I tend to pit the same players' seasons against each other in earlier rounds when they take up a large number of slots. Sometimes that leads to two highly regarded seasons taking one another out but he has plenty of good years to choose from.

 

[Johnny Tomala]

Matthews 2021-22.