[Matthew Tkachuk] Leafs would be unbelievable if the team wasn't in Toronto

[HockeyVirus]

2021-22 as a Calgary Flames player:

82 games
42 goals (6 gwg)
62 assists
104 points

His reputation when he was traded was he wasn't a playoff performer. It was only rewritten when he went deep with the Panthers.

8P in 27GP

 

[Commander Clueless]

His reputation when he was traded was he wasn't a playoff performer. It was only rewritten when he went deep with the Panthers.

8P in 27GP

Definitely changed that narrative when he got away from "the pressure". Or whatever you want to call it. Florida has plenty of great, hardcore fans so I'm not sure exactly what the dynamic is there.


But it brings up an interesting point.


Let's say for the sake of argument that Tkachuk is entirely right and the fans in Toronto are the only thing holding this team back from greatness.

How do you fix that?

 

[SavBigMoneyAtBedards]

His reputation when he was traded was he wasn't a playoff performer. It was only rewritten when he went deep with the Panthers.

8P in 27GP

That's 8 assists.

In 21-22 he had 10 points in 12 games.
4 goals and 6 assists.

2nd on the team behind Gaudreau.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Tkachuk went from a mediocre team to a great and his numbers improved?

No no no, it is the lack of pressure, the fact that the Panthers are stacked and everybody wants to go there has no bearing.

It is all about the fans and the pressure. Even in Toronto, it isn't about the Toronto team, everything is about the people who live in Toronto.

The team didn't lose, the fans made the team lose you see?

 

[Commander Clueless]

Tkachuk went from a mediocre team to a great and his numbers improved?

No no no, it is the lack of pressure, the fact that the Panthers are stacked and everybody wants to go there has no bearing.

It is all about the fans and the pressure. Even in Toronto, it isn't about the Toronto team, everything is about the people who live in Toronto.

The team didn't lose, the fans made the team lose you see?

It's a shame we Leafs fans are all knuckle dragging, illiterate Neanderthals or this team might actually get somewhere.

....Err...Blarg, or whatever.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Definitely changed that narrative when he got away from "the pressure". Or whatever you want to call it. Florida has plenty of great, hardcore fans so I'm not sure exactly what the dynamic is there.


But it brings up an interesting point.


Let's say for the sake of argument that Tkachuk is entirely right and the fans in Toronto are the only thing holding this team back from greatness.

How do you fix that?

He isn't right and it is nonsense. The Leafs have not had 1 thing wrong for nearly 60 years. They had the worst owner in the sport for a while and it took decades to get past that. Then in the 90's/early 2000's had several deep playoff runs and either hit terrible injuries like when they lost Sundin in the ECF or had tough breaks like the Gretzky high stick and that is just part of the sport.

Then they got into trying to do quick fixes and wasted another decade on that before committing to a rebuild. Then built up the organization to a great spot and refused to make any further changes.

None of those is because of the fans or media. I watch EVERY media availability, our media lobed nothing but soft balls. I actually challenge someone to find me a video of our media asking the players or team a tough question. Because they basically refuse to answer it and the media moves on. No one pushes them or grills them.

That's 8 assists.

In 21-22 he had 10 points in 12 games.
4 goals and 6 assists.

2nd on the team behind Gaudreau.

Point remains that was his reputation. Not going to really debate it because I know I am right here.

 

[Mobiandi]

Could be true. Tkachuk was dogwater in every single postseason he played for the Flames

 

[Dirty Mind]

In Calgary Tkachuk tried to be a Joker-level villain vs the Oilers. First in 2020 after he turtled against Zach Kassian, and then again in their 2022 playoff series (asking Kane “Hey want some money?” while the former was in the Sin Bin) — he shut up pretty quick after his team got gentlemen-swept. Guy had nothing to say after that and bailed on Calgary after. Can’t respect a person like that.

re: pressure playing in Canadian markets

Yes, the lows are overscrutinized in a Canadian market but that also means the highs are higher too.

The fans know the game well and call it from their seats. ie: fans in Edmonton yell “OFFSIDE!” when play’s offside or instantly recognize when the other team is Too Many Men, just for a couple examples. The only other cities I’ve seen this happen in is Winnipeg and Montréal. The only American market with this level of hockey savvy that I’ve noticed personally is Philadelphia.

Win the Cup in a Canadian market and you’re instantly a legend. It’s been so long that the new generation of fans doesn’t know this.

If the Oilers win it this year it will remind the NHL and their players that winning in a Canadian market is fun af and does so much more for their legacy.

 

[Suntouchable13]

They don't do much when there is relatively no pressure either. Like in 2017, 2018, 2019. I don't buy it that the pressure is too much.

 

[Commander Clueless]

He isn't right and it is nonsense. The Leafs have not had 1 thing wrong for nearly 60 years. They had the worst owner in the sport for a while and it took decades to get past that. Then in the 90's/early 2000's had several deep playoff runs and either hit terrible injuries like when they lost Sundin in the ECF or had tough breaks like the Gretzky high stick and that is just part of the sport.

Then they got into trying to do quick fixes and wasted another decade on that before committing to a rebuild. Then built up the organization to a great spot and refused to make any further changes.

None of those is because of the fans or media. I watch EVERY media availability, our media lobed nothing but soft balls. I actually challenge someone to find me a video of our media asking the players or team a tough question. Because they basically refuse to answer it and the media moves on. No one pushes them or grills them.



Point remains that was his reputation. Not going to really debate it because I know I am right here.

Hey now friend. I said "assume for the sake of argument". You broke forum etiquette!

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

Tkachuk went from a mediocre team to a great and his numbers improved?

No no no, it is the lack of pressure, the fact that the Panthers are stacked and everybody wants to go there has no bearing.

It is all about the fans and the pressure. Even in Toronto, it isn't about the Toronto team, everything is about the people who live in Toronto.

The team didn't lose, the fans made the team lose you see?

Matthews and Marner play on each others line, why do their numbers drop if their line is stacked and one of the best lines on paper?. Looking at game 7 stats, both underperform massively, and at this point maybe pressure is a factor here. They preform better in games 1-5 than elimination where the pressure is highest. If Matthews and Marner preform at a regular season level, maybe the stacked Panthers would be in Cancun right now.

 

[PistolPete]

feels like a player from a sunbelt no fan team gaslighting passionate fanbases
tkachuk is a next level troll

Is he though? I've beard many players talk about how Canadian markets are harder to play in because of the pressure to win as well as a complete loss of anonymity.

On the flip side I have heard many players say they live playing in American markets because outside of the rink, no one knows who they are and the media attention isn't as great, especially in the newer markets.

There is a reason why Canadian teams have a hard time signing quality FAs

 

[Do Make Say Think]

There is a reason why Canadian teams have a hard time signing quality FAs

Very little to do with pressure or fans.

Everything to do with taxes, the weather, and anonimity.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Massive improvement for Toronto over the last few years. They are getting respect from beyond the handshake line (assuming pity is the same as respect). Well done, Leafs. Well done.

/s

 

[WarriorofTime]

but anyone from a mid-tier European club football team would snort at the idea that team faces undue pressure from fans and media if they watched today.

I'm not sure where this narrative comes from. The big 4 sporting leagues in North America are bigger leagues than European soccer leagues. The NHL (5th) is behind the English Premier League in revenue but the NFL/NBA/MLB (in order) are bigger leagues than anything else. Soccer is globally the most popular sport and the fans may dance during the games or whatever, but the attention is diverted in many many different leagues across the world that there isn't the same emphasis and hyperfocus on a particular league like you get in North America, where for instance the "entire hockey world" is all fixated on the NHL Playoffs.

At least hockey players don't get murdered for playing bad in the World Cup (although that was unique).

 

[PistolPete]

Very little to do with pressure or fans.

Everything to do with taxes, the weather, and anonimity.

Anonymity. It's right in your own response. So you concur with me.

And I doubt weather is a factor since the NE US and Detroit have no problem with FA.

Taxes? I took a peak once and Canadian tax rates don't seem too far off the blue states so not sure that is a huge factor, but maybe.

But either way, pressure is definitely a factor with all else being equal. Quality FA are likely to relieve multiple offers and as such have a choice and they're likely to choose thr market with less pressure. Of course, it's in reality more like a combination of all the above.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He isn't right and it is nonsense. The Leafs have not had 1 thing wrong for nearly 60 years. They had the worst owner in the sport for a while and it took decades to get past that. Then in the 90's/early 2000's had several deep playoff runs and either hit terrible injuries like when they lost Sundin in the ECF or had tough breaks like the Gretzky high stick and that is just part of the sport.

Then they got into trying to do quick fixes and wasted another decade on that before committing to a rebuild. Then built up the organization to a great spot and refused to make any further changes.

I think the one constant is Toronto has been horribly mismanaged ever since the introduction of the draft system as the means of dispersing initial talent across the League. Despite a front office with a budget the size of a small country, they've never fully understood the hockey thing and what it takes to build a consistent winner. The decision to sign Tavares and then let their RFAs that weren't even arbitration eligible take them to cleaners so that they had so much cap tied up in 4 Forwards... then double.. then triple.. then quadruple down until everyone was on a Full NMC, and now facing the prospect of Mitch Marner being the best player to walk into Unrestricted Free Agency with zero compensation accordingly (or maybe de minimis if they trade his negotiating rights so he can sign for an eighth year somewhere) since at least ... well John Tavares....is the latest in a long line of comical errors for Leafs management over 50+ years that has thus far doomed their best run of drafting in the Draft era, and one there's no guarantee they'll be able to replicate. Oh sure, there's always the excuses "the high stick", the "COVID flat cap" or whatever. But the Leafs have above all, just never been good enough and it's almost entirely "User Error" that made this so.

 

[TeamRenzo]

So its not a pressure situation in MTL, Philly, NY or other hockey hotbeds? How about other sports? Does the pressure not apply there?

They are pro athletes that have faced pressure their entire lives, no reason for TML to shit the bed in game 7 like they have the last bunch of years

 

[Armourboy]

Day in and day out fan and media attention do have an affect on players, now whether its enough to cost you a series is stretching it a bit, but I have no doubt it wears on you as time goes on.

You see it from guys all over the league who choose to go to smaller markets or to places where hockey players more or less get lost in the crowd. ROR was just the latest but certainly not the first to choose Nashville for that reason.

Now even down here though the pressure is starting to ramp up, we've seen both Brunette and Trotz react to it over the course of this season so there is a certain level too it anywhere you go. I don't think anyone can really deny that it's a different beast in Canada comparatively when it comes to hockey.

That said, no one forced those guys to sign those contracts, they knew what they were dealing with when they signed on. If they didn't want to deal with that then they should have made another choice.

 

[Realm]

It is what you make of it. You mentioned that lone game 7 Montreal had at home. It just happened to be montreal's most lopsided victory out of the 6.

This Toronto core has lost game 7s at home. They have also lost game 7s on the road. Heck, they also lost deciding games with nobody in the crowd.

Home, road, no crowd.... same results. It ultimately comes down to a problem with this core rather than the environment. One day, the players on the ice for toronto will do better regardless of the environment.

Its not my excuse, but some people handle the pressure better than others. Comparing a Montreal game 7 less than 15 years after winning a cup as a 1 seed vs an 8 seed is quite different than the Leafs playing a home game 7 vs the Cup champs 58 years since winning a cup is quite different situation.

 

[PistolPete]

Day in and day out fan and media attention do have an affect on players, now whether its enough to cost you a series is stretching it a bit, but I have no doubt it wears on you as time goes on.

You see it from guys all over the league who choose to go to smaller markets or to places where hockey players more or less get lost in the crowd. ROR was just the latest but certainly not the first to choose Nashville for that reason.

Now even down here though the pressure is starting to ramp up, we've seen both Brunette and Trotz react to it over the course of this season so there is a certain level too it anywhere you go. I don't think anyone can really deny that it's a different beast in Canada comparatively when it comes to hockey.

That said, no one forced those guys to sign those contracts, they knew what they were dealing with when they signed on. If they didn't want to deal with that then they should have made another choice.

What about in the case of drafted players?

If they refused to play in the market that drafted them, they'd be ripped apart for daring to buck the system.

 

[Realm]

Im not blaming the fans for their passion either way.

To be fair, Toronto fans were quite supportive before the game got out of hand. The beer and jersey chucking started after going down 6-1. I agree that the sheer amount of attention on the team may have caused them to play more cautiously and stingily. No one wants to be the guy who makes a mistake with the way Toronto media dissects everything, resulting in hesitations and second thoughts when making plays. As professionals they should be able to handle playing under that pressure… but they ever respond when they’re down, they give in and fall apart.

Oilers welcome that pressure and put it on the themselves to give their all and go out fighting.

 

[Armourboy]

What about in the case of drafted players?

If they refused to play in the market that drafted them, they'd be ripped apart for daring to buck the system.

I mean drafted players don't have much choice, that much is true, but once you get to a certain point and level you can get out if you want, even before you hit UFA status. We've seen it all over the league, heck Askarov just did it in Nashville, and at least half of the people around here were praising him for doing so. Even Afanasyev did it and that guy hadn't done anything really.

That said I think that is why you are going to see lots of players start going the college route until that is changed. They can get paid something through NIL and then they either have a choice of where they want to go or a very short leash until they can.

That said that doesn't have much to do with dealing with pressure and whether it has an effect on players or not.

 

[PistolPete]

I mean drafted players don't have much choice, that much is true, but once you get to a certain point and level you can get out if you want, even before you hit UFA status. We've seen it all over the league, heck Askarov just did it in Nashville, and at least half of the people around here were praising him for doing so. Even Afanasyev did it and that guy hadn't done anything really.

That said I think that is why you are going to see lots of players start going the college route until that is changed. They can get paid something through NIL and then they either have a choice of where they want to go or a very short leash until they can.

That said that doesn't have much to do with dealing with pressure and whether it has an effect on players or not.

Will college players generate much in NIL?

I'd just as soon they did away with the draft entirely.

 

[Armourboy]

Will college players generate much in NIL?

I'd just as soon they did away with the draft entirely.

More than you think. We actually brought this up on the Preds board at one point and didn't figure it was much if anything at all and then someone came in and posted the numbers for one of the guys we drafted and it was a pretty good chunk of change over the course of a year. Now it wasn't NHL level money, or anywhere close to what football players make obviously, but it was enough to be comfortable as a college kid if you decided you wanted to go that route.