[Matthew Tkachuk] Leafs would be unbelievable if the team wasn't in Toronto

[Erik Alfredsson]

Not sure why the mods here have let you go on your little unhinged rant but here we are.

You literally make 0 points and are an obvious troll, echoed by the fact that fans of other teams are overwhelmingly disagreeing with you.

Keep going though. It is entertaining to read your little meltdown

Saying that the Leafs aren't as good as their fans think, and that they've done nothing to be considered a conference finals guarantee is not trolling or unhinged.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

They whip that fanbase into hysterics by constantly overrating the team. Look no further than leaf fans complaining about the Sportsnet Broadcast. To the rest of us it feels like they are leaf cheer leaders. To leaf fans they feel like they hate them. That's how used to it they are hearing how great their team is. That they want pure delusion in the reporting.

I believe the media creates this. Watching the sportsnet broadcast after the leafs lost to florida was beyond pathetic. Sad, moping around boo hoo. They didnt act like that when Winnipeg was knocked out who was a far better team than Toronto this year.

Great point about how Leaf fans think Sportsnet hates their team. Any non-Leaf fan can see how much of a Leafs love fest it is. It has been for years. Remember when Don Cherry kissed Kadri on the head and had his arm around Frazier f***ing McLaren after a regular season win over Ottawa?

 

[Oilslick941611]

If management gets pushed into bad decisions because of the media, then the whole thing is rotten to the core.

You are acting like a lunatic right now. The media isn't real life, just like Twitter isn't.

that guy is so far gone. Hes spent all day yesterday and so far all day today bitching about leaf fans, like he is personally affected by them. Like they are camping outside his house or something. When confronted with links that show other fanbase acting badly he just hand waves it away and say toronto fans are worse/unique. When presented with evidence of worse actions by other fans ( vancouver riot) again he just hand waves it away. Joke of a poster, best bet is to just add him to your ignore list. This thread goes down by like 2 pages that way.

 

[Bust]

Saying that the Leafs aren't as good as their fans think, and that they've done nothing to be considered a conference finals guarantee is not trolling or unhinged.

First in the conference, vastly improved D zone, after like 10 years of the same core, running it back multiple years after 1st round exits..

In your expert opinion, what expectations should leaf fans have had?

 

[NVious]

Hockey is a team sport champ, regular season individual numbers mean very little, you should probably know that by now.

Great question about Karlsson though. No I was never deluded enough to think that Ottawa was a contender when they had prime Karlsson. I thought that he was a good enough player to build a contender around, but that they never really surrounded him with a good enough team to do that. But Karlsson's Sens actually won a decent amount of series for a budget team with poor support, so I was never pissed off with their performances. When they made it to the ECF I was pleasantly surprised.

Hockey is a team sport made up of individuals, if you get enough talented individuals together, you win a cup, you should know that champ.

Yeah because Karlsson was one guy, during his tenure he had ONE 80 point producer in his 9 years in Ottawa. Abysmal.

In Toronto you had a 50/50 guy in Matthews, 30/70 guy in Marner, 40/40 guy in Nylander, 40/40 guy in Tavares and Rielly who once put up 20/50. You would expect more from that core, yet Karlsson single handedly outperformed them, how does one guy outperform 3.5-5 players of that caliber? Because the players didn't perform.

It wasn't the media that made them play badly.
It wasn't the fans.

It's the players.

 

[JS19]

This gaslighting is hilarious

NFL, Soccer, and NBA are under way more pressure than players with Canadian teams

It’s insane how the motivation for success is treated as if it’s some toxicity from the fans. Like wtf

 

[NVious]

that guy is so far gone. Hes spent all day yesterday and so far all day today bitching about leaf fans, like he is personally affected by them. Like they are camping outside his house or something. When confronted with links that show other fanbase acting badly he just hand waves it away and say toronto fans are worse/unique. When presented with evidence of worse actions by other fans ( vancouver riot) again he just hand waves it away. Joke of a poster, best bet is to just add him to your ignore list. This thread goes down by like 2 pages that way.

To be fair to him. I'm a Leafs fan and I cannot imagine the Leafs ever utterly pounding/decimating a team, but they've done it to the Sens 5 times. I'd probably be pissed too LMFAO.

 

[Oilslick941611]

To be fair to him. I'm a Leafs fan and I cannot imagine the Leafs ever utterly pounding/decimating a team, but they've done it to the Sens 5 times. I'd probably be pissed too LMFAO.

is he a sens fan?

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

First in the conference, vastly improved D zone, after like 10 years of the same core, running it back multiple years after 1st round exits..

In your expert opinion, what expectations should leaf fans have had?

They were second in the conference.

I think a conference finals appearance was probably the goal THIS YEAR. They got close to it with a 7 game series against Florida. Game 7 was an embarrassment that deserves boos, but the playoffs up until that point is a pretty realistic outcome for that Leafs team. A 2nd round Game 7 exit to the defending Cup Champs is not a bad season for the 4th placed team in the league.

Previous years they should've had no expectation of any sort of run in the playoffs. Should've been to win a round. Maybe the COVID year in the Canadian division, that was also an embarrassment of a series for Toronto that the players should've been ashamed of.

 

[Grifter3511]

Pretending this doesn’t happen in. Every other sport is insane. Watch football twitter it’s the exact same shit

Yeah, fans threatening players is absolutely NOT unique to Toronto.

 

[Bust]

They were second in the conference.

I think a conference finals appearance was probably the goal THIS YEAR. They got close to it with a 7 game series against Florida. Game 7 was an embarrassment that deserves boos, but the playoffs up until that point is a pretty realistic outcome for that Leafs team. A 2nd round Game 7 exit to the defending Cup Champs is not a bad season for the 4th placed team in the league.

Previous years they should've had no expectation of any sort of run in the playoffs. Should've been to win a round. Maybe the COVID year in the Canadian division, that was also an embarrassment of a series for Toronto that the players should've been ashamed of.

So, in your opinion, they fell short of expectations?

 

[thaman8765678]

It is much easier to play for a non hockey market team. I saw them already asking Marner after the game about what he feels about the fans booing him.

I'd be so happy to leave as a player playing in front of a toxic and angry fan base.

 

[CowbellConray]

Hockey is a team sport made up of individuals, if you get enough talented individuals together, you win a cup, you should know that champ.

Yeah because Karlsson was one guy, during his tenure he had ONE 80 point producer in his 9 years in Ottawa. Abysmal.

In Toronto you had a 50/50 guy in Matthews, 30/70 guy in Marner, 40/40 guy in Nylander, 40/40 guy in Tavares and Rielly who once put up 20/50. You would expect more from that core, yet Karlsson single handedly outperformed them, how does one guy outperform 3.5-5 players of that caliber? Because the players didn't perform.

It wasn't the media that made them play badly.
It wasn't the fans.

It's the players.

The players have a role in it, but let's not act like the city creates a sane operating area. You can have talented employees, but if the organization is bad, they employees struggle.

Every outlet in Toronto gave these players the trophy before they had even won a series. It was "How many cups will they win?" It was the fans calling Matthews the best player in the world when he isnt. His 4 goal debut was taken as this "Matthews is the greatest pure goalscorer ever". Fans propped these guys up as messiahs saving the city. They perform when the stakes aren't raised. When the organization lets them play freely and things are light, they are really good. However, 2-3 first round losses in a row, and now doubt starts creeping in. Fans started to ask if the team had the mental mindset. The organization starts bringing in vet players to "guide" these young kids that are supposed to be saviors and show them how to win. However, these vets get hurt (Muzzin), aren't proven performers themselves (Tavares), or are too old (Tanev, OEL, Laughton). Now there is even more pressure on the core young guys to perform, and they still struggle.

Now, after years and years, the fans have turned on the core, and when they lose 2 games in a row, every media question to them is "can you break the curse?" "Can you shut out the demons?" etc. and the entire city is feeling this dread of being a perpetual loser.

The players have fault. The media has fault. The fans have fault. It's not 100% one way or the other. You wanna know what would help the core 4 out? Some depth and defense that was actually competent. Domi was the only decent round 2 performer. Knies didnt look good, they benched Nic Robertson, their defense produced nothing on offense... So everything falls onto a core 4 that 1) have never shown they can compete and 2) were propped up by the same fans that are tearing them down.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Hey you finally got it! The whole thing IS rotten to the core. I would've thought 60 years of failure would make that pretty clear, but I guess not.

I'm a Sens fan -_-

We interact on HFSens

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

So, in your opinion, they fell short of expectations?

In game 7 yeah. The playoffs as a whole? Not really, maybe by a razor thin margin. Even if they beat Florida, Carolina would've smacked them around and Leaf media and fans would be acting like a shocking result.

 

[Bobby Butler]

Hockey is a team sport made up of individuals, if you get enough talented individuals together, you win a cup, you should know that champ.

This is wrong. Complementary skillsets and cohesion are required.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I'm a Sens fan -_-

We interact on HFSens

I know you are, which is why I'm a little surprised you didn't think the Leafs were rotten to the core.

 

[NVious]

The players have a role in it, but let's not act like the city creates a sane operating area. You can have talented employees, but if the organization is bad, they employees struggle.

Every outlet in Toronto gave these players the trophy before they had even won a series. It was "How many cups will they win?" It was the fans calling Matthews the best player in the world when he isnt. His 4 goal debut was taken as this "Matthews is the greatest pure goalscorer ever". Fans propped these guys up as messiahs saving the city. They perform when the stakes aren't raised. When the organization lets them play freely and things are light, they are really good. However, 2-3 first round losses in a row, and now doubt starts creeping in. Fans started to ask if the team had the mental mindset. The organization starts bringing in vet players to "guide" these young kids that are supposed to be saviors and show them how to win. However, these vets get hurt (Muzzin), aren't proven performers themselves (Tavares), or are too old (Tanev, OEL, Laughton). Now there is even more pressure on the core young guys to perform, and they still struggle.

Now, after years and years, the fans have turned on the core, and when they lose 2 games in a row, every media question to them is "can you break the curse?" "Can you shut out the demons?" etc. and the entire city is feeling this dread of being a perpetual loser.

The players have fault. The media has fault. The fans have fault. It's not 100% one way or the other. You wanna know what would help the core 4 out? Some depth and defense that was actually competent. Domi was the only decent round 2 performer. Knies didnt look good, they benched Nic Robertson, their defense produced nothing on offense... So everything falls onto a core 4 that 1) have never shown they can compete and 2) were propped up by the same fans that are tearing them down.

Nah it's 100% on the players, their play drops 33-50%, only Nylander maintains his season production. If ANY teams best players dropped 33-50% in production, it's over for them.

This went on for nearly 10 years, zero big moments, zero big games, zero hat tricks, all for the low cost of 40-50 million.

If the players couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have taken the contracts.

We didn't expect Josh Leivo to turn into McDavid, we just wanted Auston/Mitch and JT to play like they showed they could in the season, they never did.

 

[NVious]

This is wrong. Complementary skillsets and cohesion are required.

No, it's right you're just trying to add things and imply I left them out because I disagreed with them or don't know them.

All teams are flawed, I agree the Leafs could've been better balanced and someone from the current core should've already went. However, simultaneously this core was also talented enough to at least make a deeper run than 2 2nd round finishes in 9 years.

 

[colchar]

Matthew Tkachuk is so right about this comment.

Having never played for the team or in the NHL, how the f**k would you know?

 

[colchar]

This post is just "exhibit ZZ" of proving my point. Throwing jerseys on the ice, beers at players, booing in the 1st period, etc. You would've thought they were playing in Philly after that loss, but nope home stadium. They lost in the same "asshole" fashion as their fans are.

The boos were in the second period Skippy.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Nah it's 100% on the players, their play drops 33-50%, only Nylander maintains his season production. If ANY teams best players dropped 33-50% in production, it's over for them.

This went on for nearly 10 years, zero big moments, zero big games, zero hat tricks, all for the low cost of 40-50 million.

If the players couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have taken the contracts.

We didn't expect Josh Leivo to turn into McDavid, we just wanted Auston/Mitch and JT to play like they showed they could in the season, they never did.

The problem is that the organization, the media, and the fans were happy to give those guys those contracts before they proved they deserved them. The players are to blame for not living up to it, but at the same time, maybe there's a lesson to be learned in not parading around players as destined heroes before they accomplished anything.

 

[colchar]

Knies contradicts MT:

"I want to be here," Knies said. "I want to play here. That's all that matters to me. I love playing in this city, I think it's a blast."

John Tavares 'very optimistic' about returning to Toronto Maple Leafs; Knies quiets offer sheet talk | TSN

John Tavares thinks a return to the Toronto Maple Leafs is very possible. The impending free-agent forward says he's "very optimistic" a deal can get done to remain with the team.

www.tsn.ca

Maybe he just has more cojones than Marner and Matthews.

 

[NVious]

The problem is that the organization, the media, and the fans were happy to give those guys those contracts before they proved they deserved them. The players are to blame for not living up to it, but at the same time, maybe there's a lesson to be learned in not parading around players as destined heroes before they accomplished anything.

Or the players were extremely talented as shown by their season stats and then they fell off the face of the earth come playoff time.

 

[CowbellConray]

Nah it's 100% on the players, their play drops 33-50%, only Nylander maintains his season production. If ANY teams best players dropped 33-50% in production, it's over for them.

This went on for nearly 10 years, zero big moments, zero big games, zero hat tricks, all for the low cost of 40-50 million.

If the players couldn't handle it, they shouldn't have taken the contracts.

We didn't expect Josh Leivo to turn into McDavid, we just wanted Auston/Mitch and JT to play like they showed they could in the season, they never did.

So the players should have accepted less money than what was offered to them by the org? The players should have denied the statements from the media and fans that they were going to win multiple cups and Matthews was the best player in the world? The core should have voiced frustration and the organization selling tons of futures for sub pay players?

Look at the Toronto defense and goaltending. That's not even CLOSE to what you need to win the cup. Unless you are absolutely STACKED a forward, and they have zero depth beyond their top 6.

The players are a problem, but the fans and org are also a major issue.