News Article: Matt Petgrave arrested suspicion of manslaughter. Adam Johnson

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Wild that he’s being arrested for manslaughter.

Hope he has a good lawyer

 

[Bruins Bhoy]

They may like to write the headlines in that way, but we do not love to read them. The majority despise the sensationalist way in which the tabloids are run.

In regards to the arrest, i don't believe it is regarding intent. My reading of the situation would be the arrest has been made because of reckless endangerment or similar. However, that is just my opinion based on what i have seen and how our law works.

 

[whatsbruin]

This is dumb with a capital D.


Well it is a bastion of accurate and responsible reporting, so it must be true...

Please tell me what source is accurate and responsible reporting today ?

 

[McGarnagle]

I've come around on it over the weeks. At first I thought it was just an accident and a fluke and that there's no way he'd intentionally do that.

The more I saw it and thought of it, it just keeps jumping out to me that I've been watching hockey for about 28 years now and of all the collisions, blue line pick plays, interferences, etc. I've seen over that long period of time, I've never ever seen someone react by throwing their feet up to neck or head level. And you can see he looked and knew Johnson was coming.

I don't think I'd go so far as to be confident it was 100% intentional, but at best it was willfully reckless and I think he probably intended to kick him possibly in the chest. Probably didn't intend to slit his jugular, but I do think negligent manslaughter is worth pursuing.

 

[Bruinaura]

I don't believe he intended to kill him.

However, based on the video clip I saw, I do think it was a reckless hit.

In regard to the clip being grainy, yes, it is.... but if it's too grainy to prove that it is reckless, it seems it would also be too grainy to prove it's not.

My two cents. Won't be arguing it. The whole situation is just terrible.

 

[LSCII]

Please tell me what source is accurate and responsible reporting today ?

None. But some are less sensationalized by a large degree comparatively to the Post, if we’re being honest with ourselves.

I've come around on it over the weeks. At first I thought it was just an accident and a fluke and that there's no way he'd intentionally do that.

The more I saw it and thought of it, it just keeps jumping out to me that I've been watching hockey for about 28 years now and of all the collisions, blue line pick plays, interferences, etc. I've seen over that long period of time, I've never ever seen someone react by throwing their feet up to neck or head level. And you can see he looked and knew Johnson was coming.

I don't think I'd go so far as to be confident it was 100% intentional, but at best it was willfully reckless and I think he probably intended to kick him possibly in the chest. Probably didn't intend to slit his jugular, but I do think negligent manslaughter is worth pursuing.

You’ve also had the benefit of slow motion and repetitive viewings, and you eventually came around. That should tell you everything you need to know about his “intent”.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

None. But some are less sensationalized by a large degree comparatively to the Post, if we’re being honest with ourselves.


You’ve also had the benefit of slow motion and repetitive viewings, and you eventually came around. That should tell you everything you need to know about his “intent”.

That's what manslaughter is, causing a death without intent or malice

 

[Therick67]

I said the hit didn't look right the first time I saw it and I still feel that way. The lousy video certainly doesn't help.

I certainly don't think he was trying to do that purposely, but also think it could have been avoided.

 

[Bruinfanatic]

I've seen the video and IMO it isn't dumb. Been watching hockey 60 years and never seen someone cross body an opponent like that skates neck high.

It's one thing to get hip checked and sent head over heels and make contact to an opponents neck. That isn't what happened. IMO he made a really bad decision to impede Johnson. I am not saying he tried to kill him but it was reckless and if what I am reading is true, that falls under manslaughter in the UK.

Sure looked like an actual kick was delivered after the initial contact,leg extended anda kicking motion,but I say it looked because it’s a very crappy video,I’m sure the police probably have a better video .

 

[NDiesel]

I just watched the video for the first time since the incident. I think he definitely threw his skate up, never seen a players skate go up like that in all my years of watching/playing.

Additionally, and sorry for the lack of link as I lost the article, but apparently there is a video of him doing this same thing 10ish years prior.

 

[LSCII]

That's what manslaughter is, causing a death without intent or malice

Sure, but with playing a physical sport like hockey professionally, there's an inherent danger for negative outcomes that you're aware of going into it. Its like being an Alaskan King Crab fisherman on one of those boats. Bad shit happens, so you get paid accordingly for that risk.

This after the fact whining and clamoring for retribution isn't even being called for by his family. It's a bunch of keyboard warriors on the internet and sports talk show slapdicks. Its cancel culture bullshit and coming from mostly people who haven't watched a hockey game in their entire life.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Point of clarification before people start celebrating this (it is absolutely gross to see this occuring):

In Britian you must be arrested before police can question you. He has NOT been charged with anything.

The BBC headline is terribly misleading which comes as no shock since the UK loves salacious shit.

Ali that's not correct - police in the UK can conduct a voluntary interview under caution, without making a formal arrest.

Your main point is right though - arrest is at this stage merely a prelude to an interview, and may or may not result in a charge. The fact they've actually gone to the trouble of arresting Petgrave though and placed him in custody tells me that a charge is a distinct possibility. That surprises me, TBH, but we can only wait and see what happens.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

It's been said that this individual has a track record of engaging in questionable plays. The skate leg maneuver performed by him was unnatural and reckless.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Common sense has prevailed

 

[NDiesel]

Sure, but with playing a physical sport like hockey professionally, there's an inherent danger for negative outcomes that you're aware of going into it. Its like being an Alaskan King Crab fisherman on one of those boats. Bad shit happens, so you get paid accordingly for that risk.

This after the fact whining and clamoring for retribution isn't even being called for by his family. It's a bunch of keyboard warriors on the internet and sports talk show slapdicks. Its cancel culture bullshit and coming from mostly people who haven't watched a hockey game in their entire life.

Sure there's an inherent risk, but there can also be plays made outside of the scope of what you expect in a normal hockey game that would fall under manslaughter.

IF they somehow prove he threw up that skate purposely he deserves a punishment. Would be extremely tough to prove though unless this guy comes forward and admits it, although the video of him doing this play in the past would be pretty damning.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Sure, but with playing a physical sport like hockey professionally, there's an inherent danger for negative outcomes that you're aware of going into it. Its like being an Alaskan King Crab fisherman on one of those boats. Bad shit happens, so you get paid accordingly for that risk.

This after the fact whining and clamoring for retribution isn't even being called for by his family. It's a bunch of keyboard warriors on the internet and sports talk show slapdicks. Its cancel culture bullshit and coming from mostly people who haven't watched a hockey game in their entire life.

Yeah and if a crewmember shoved another one and they unintentionally fell overboard, they'd be charged

 

[James Walker]

It was reckless to the point it looks intentional to my eyes. Awful incident.

Yes, and they are comparing it to this "hit" when Petgrave was playing junior.
Edit: No injury here, just a trailing leg, but a similar motion.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Yes, and they are comparing it to this "hit" when Petgrave was playing junior.
Edit: No injury here, just a trailing leg, but a similar motion.

Another bullshit hit. Score one for the police today. Well done.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

To me it looks like the mechanics of a spinning back kick, while wearing sharpened blades disguised as being off balance and accidental. I truly hope it was unintentional but there can only be one outcome when you spin like that and follow through high enough.

 

[badbrewin]

I thought the hit was suspect from the moment the footage was released. The way the leg went up just didn't fit his motion and gravity.

It's not the tell-all tale, nor would it be enough to secure a conviction, but if there was ever a time to hook a guy up to a polygraph to gauge intent, this would be it.

 

[Bradely]

Adam Johnson: Manslaughter arrest over ice hockey player's death

A man is held in connection with the death of Nottingham Panthers player Adam Johnson.

www.bbc.com

This is a sad story all around.

 

[KnightofBoston]

It’s amazing to me that Ali posted what she did just a few posts in and we’re still seeing the responses that we are in here

An interesting study of human nature I suppose

 

[Alicat]

Ali that's not correct - police in the UK can conduct a voluntary interview under caution, without making a formal arrest.

Your main point is right though - arrest is at this stage merely a prelude to an interview, and may or may not result in a charge. The fact they've actually gone to the trouble of arresting Petgrave though and placed him in custody tells me that a charge is a distinct possibility. That surprises me, TBH, but we can only wait and see what happens.

Thanks for clarifying! I was only going by what I saw from TSN that stated that police must arrest before they can speak with a person of interest.

You just have to trust the investigation at this point and if they decide to bring charges then so be it. I just hope he can get a fair trial.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Sure, but with playing a physical sport like hockey professionally, there's an inherent danger for negative outcomes that you're aware of going into it. Its like being an Alaskan King Crab fisherman on one of those boats. Bad shit happens, so you get paid accordingly for that risk.

This after the fact whining and clamoring for retribution isn't even being called for by his family. It's a bunch of keyboard warriors on the internet and sports talk show slapdicks. Its cancel culture bullshit and coming from mostly people who haven't watched a hockey game in their entire life.

Or people that just have more nefarious agendas… or just simply modes of perspective on the world. People that tend to think more black and white and are proponents of carceral systems of governance tend to see moments like this as a malicious act to some degree. The reality is we’ll never know petrgrave’s exact thoughts at that time, he might not even be able to accurately tell you


It’s be difficult to charge and convict him from a legal perspective but I don’t know what the uk’s reputation is, one thing a lawyer could argue amongst many many other things is that there is now this sudden wave to start wearing neck guards because of this incident, owing to the point you made about the sport in itself being inherently dangerous. So much so that the leagues themselves don’t even regulate enough around possible lacerations and fatal blood loss due to an essential piece of equipment and it’s the players choices now simply in response to such a tragedy that they’re now taking steps to prevent it. That doesn’t support the idea that this was simply a reckless play that could have been reasonably avoided. You’re going to need to call in physics experts far more knowledgeable than anyone on this website let alone far and wide across the entire internet to definitively confirm that he make a conscience move with his skate that results in a death.

The other thing is you can’t really say someone is guilty of manslaughter in a sport as dangerous as hockey without also saying there wasn’t intent involved. The very nature of the sport dictates that you have to put effort and awareness into not hurting or killing people.

I’m not saying that petgrave won’t or can’t or shouldn’t eventually be charged and then convicted either, but making a definitive statement to that end means you’re leading with emotion instead of acknowledging it takes more to determine the outcome of something like this and simply having empathy for everyone hurt by it is all one needs to put out there right now

 

[PatriceBergeron]

I just don’t like the idea of potentially charging someone with manslaughter without 100% knowing intent. If Todd Bertuzzi had killed Steve Moore, then sure that’s obviously an intent to injure.

But where do you draw the line on what a player was intending to do? Should Chara have been charged if Pacioretty’s injury had been more serious? If an unnecessary roughness play like the Burfict hit on Antonio Brown ever caused serious injury to someone should they be charged?

Unfortunately these guys play dangerous games where serious injuries can happen. The idea of charging someone for manslaughter without being able to prove what their intent was is a slippery slope.