Speculation: Matt Murray

[Empoleon8771]

If they did want a Larsson and Puljujarvi package I’d add something and ask for Murray and McCann who I’ve seen mentioned as a trade target on here.

Would fill 2 holes for us as we need a 3C and a Smith replacement. Bouchard should be ready so we could potentially move Larsson

I think Puljujarvi and Larsson for Murray straight up is fairly close, I'd put that Edmonton package as around 2 2nds (1 2nd for each guy) and that's where I have Murray's value. Any additional value comes from whatever more value Larsson has than a 2nd, but I'm not thinking he has substantially more value than that (maybe another mid round pick on top of the 2nd). To get McCann as well, I think you need to add someone like Benson to that deal.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Strome doesn't help the Pens with anything.

They do not need a purely offensive LH center. Like...at all.

 

[Double Dion]

Andersen was traded for a 1st and 2nd in 2016 right after signing to a 5 year, $25 million deal. That seems like it's both "paid a lot" and "not elite".

For reference, the equivalent contract to Andersen's contract in 2016 today is 5 years at $5.7 million AAV. If Murray wants 5 years at $6 million, he's really not far off from Andersen in 2016.

Andersen was coming off a .920 save percentage and was around that number for the 2 seasons before that. He had no injury history. Murray is coming off a sub .900 save percentage season and has lots of injury history. The two situations aren't comparable. Murray's last 3 seasons he has the identical numbers to David Rittich. He's closer to that than Andersen in my opinion.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Andersen was coming off a .920 save percentage and was around that number for the 2 seasons before that. He had no injury history. Murray is coming off a sub .900 save percentage season and has lots of injury history. The two situations aren't comparable.

And Murray has 2 cup wins, terrific playoff numbers and comparable career numbers (when you take into account average save%) to what Andersen had at the time.

 

[780il]

I think Puljujarvi and Larsson for Murray straight up is fairly close, I'd put that Edmonton package as around 2 2nds (1 2nd for each guy) and that's where I have Murray's value. Any additional value comes from whatever more value Larsson has than a 2nd, but I'm not thinking he has substantially more value than that (maybe another mid round pick on top of the 2nd). To get McCann as well, I think you need to add someone like Benson to that deal.

Rather just sign a Greiss than give up that much for a guy that’s kinda fell off a cliff.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Rather just sign a Greiss than give up that much for a guy that’s kinda fell off a cliff.

1. Murray didn't fall off a cliff. He had 1 bad year, or more realistically, a horrid 11 game stretch.
2. You get what you pay for. Greiss is a career 1B/backup goalie that's about to be 35 and has alternated between great years, bad years and average years. You're not going to win a thing with Greiss as your starter.

Is Murray the guy you should spend assets on? That's definitely a debate worth having, but saying "why trade 2 2nds for Murray instead of signing Greiss?" is exactly not how you build a winning team. Going with worse options because they're cheaper to acquire is exactly how you waste away McDavid's and Draisaitl's careers.

Saying you'd rather sign Greiss because Murray would cost a prospect who doesn't want to play for Edmonton and a rental defenseman suggests to me that you care more about asset management than winning.

 

[Double Dion]

And Murray has 2 cup wins, terrific playoff numbers and comparable career numbers (when you take into account average save%) to what Andersen had at the time.

His playoff numbers for the last 3 years are about .910. That's kind of average. Career numbers really are less important than the past few years numbers. Otherwise Gretzky would still be playing 1C somewhere.

 

[migi]

The only way Murray gets Strome is if Guentzel and Cat are added to the trade.

 

[Double Dion]

1. Murray didn't fall off a cliff. He had 1 bad year, or more realistically, a horrid 11 game stretch.
2. You get what you pay for. Greiss is a career 1B/backup goalie that's about to be 35 and has alternated between great years, bad years and average years. You're not going to win a thing with Greiss as your starter.

Is Murray the guy you should spend assets on? That's definitely a debate worth having, but saying "why trade 2 2nds for Murray instead of signing Greiss?" is exactly not how you build a winning team. Going with worse options because they're cheaper to acquire is exactly how you waste away McDavid's and Draisaitl's careers.

Saying you'd rather sign Greiss because Murray would cost a prospect who doesn't want to play for Edmonton and a rental defenseman suggests to me that you care more about asset management than winning.

He's had 1 horrible year and 2 kind of ok years before that. Greiss is the better goalie at this point if you care about winning.

 

[Double Dion]

Rather just sign a Greiss than give up that much for a guy that’s kinda fell off a cliff.

As a Flames fan I'd rather you trade assets for Murray...

 

[Fatass]

Would Sakic think Murray is in upgrade on the Av’s goaltending?
Tyson Jost for Murray?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He's had 1 horrible year and 2 kind of ok years before that. Greiss is the better goalie at this point if you care about winning.

29-14-6 with a 2.69 GAA and .919 save pct. is only "kind of ok"?

His save percentage that year among goalies who played at least 41 games was ranked 8th league wide. If he performs every year like that year, he'd consistently be in the Top 10 in the entire league in save percentage pretty much every year.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's had 1 horrible year and 2 kind of ok years before that. Greiss is the better goalie at this point if you care about winning.

Griess and Murray’s SV% is .003 different over the last three years.

And Matt Murray has had Jack Johnson in front of him over two of those seasons while Greiss has had Barry Trotz and Mitch Korn coaching him and his team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only way Murray gets Strome is if Guentzel and Cat are added to the trade.

Lol what.

Who is Cat? Why do you think that Strome has even close to the value of Guentzel?

His playoff numbers for the last 3 years are about .910. That's kind of average. Career numbers really are less important than the past few years numbers. Otherwise Gretzky would still be playing 1C somewhere.

I don't disagree, but look at Andersen in the 3 years before the trade. Andersen had a .916 save% in the playoffs with the Ducks, which was basically average for the playoffs from 2013-2016.

In terms of GSAA (goals saved above league average save%), Murray has been at about a -2.7 goals in the last 3 years (meaning he has given up 2.7 more goals than league average in the last 3 playoffs) and Andersen was at -2.2 goals in his 3 playoffs with the Ducks. Both of those basically fall in the "league average" range to me. I think Murray is an average goalie at this point, but Andersen was also an average goalie when he was traded.

He's had 1 horrible year and 2 kind of ok years before that. Greiss is the better goalie at this point if you care about winning.

Murray has a .909 save% in the last 3 years, while Greiss has a .912. And Greiss is doing that while playing for Barry Trotz.

 

[Gurglesons]

Lol what.

Who is Cat? Why do you think that Strome has even close to the value of Guentzel?



I don't disagree, but look at Andersen in the 3 years before the trade. Andersen had a .916 save% in the playoffs with the Ducks, which was basically average for the playoffs from 2013-2016.

In terms of GSAA (goals saved above league average save%), Murray has been at about a -2.7 goals in the last 3 years (meaning he has given up 2.7 more goals than league average in the last 3 playoffs) and Andersen was at -2.2 goals in his 3 playoffs with the Ducks. Both of those basically fall in the "league average" range to me. I think Murray is an average goalie at this point, but Andersen was also an average goalie when he was traded.



Murray has a .909 save% in the last 3 years, while Greiss has a .912. And Greiss is doing that while playing for Barry Trotz.

Debrincat. Kind of interesting if CHI hadn’t just given Debrincat that contract tbh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Debrincat.

That makes me even more confused with that response

Is Debrincat somehow in the dog house for the Hawks now? I wouldn't be happy with swapping Guentzel for Debrincat, but the tone of that post didn't make me think of Debrincat.

 

[Gurglesons]

That makes me even more confused with that response

Is Debrincat somehow in the dog house for the Hawks now? I wouldn't be happy with swapping Guentzel for Debrincat, but the tone of that post didn't make me think of Debrincat.

Yeah. Debrincat has slowly declined the past two years. He is paid more than Jake and obviously the inferior player and we have no use for Strome.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I feel as though every Murray proposal has people looking at his stats for this season and acting like that's what he's done consistently every year for the past 3 seasons.

 

[Prongo]

Two teams that come to mind is carolina(if they can move out one of their own) or really the favorite I would think Buffalo.

Two 2nd rounders would be my guess. Buffalos second rounder has some value where they are picking this year.

 

[mpp9]

What about Murray for Adam Larsson? With Letang and Marino on RD wouldn’t a stay at home type fit as both Letang and Marino have offensive skill

Not when your other D already are Dumoulin, Pettersson and JJ. Pens need more offense from the defense, badly.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Yeah. Debrincat has slowly declined the past two years. He is paid more than Jake and obviously the inferior player and we have no use for Strome.

Declined the last two years? Never heard a player hit 40 goals and 70+ pts without having the luxury of playing with Crosby or Malkin declining but sure lol.

Unlike Guentzel DeBrincat was able to be the man on his line and potted 40 without one of Crosby/Malkin as his center. Not even going into how he is much younger and made the league earlier while Guentzel needed 3 and a half years in the NCAA/AHL to make an NHL team. DeBrincat has been better than Guentzel for 2 of the last 3 years and even his "down year" is a lot better than Guentzel's down year in 2018. The only thing Guentzel had was this year where DeBrincat had a slump and even then the real guentzel is a bit of an unknown considering he has barely played away from 87/71 while Cat was able to put up 50 pts with Sharp and Bouma as his linemates...

 

[Jerkbait]

Not sure if the Hawks need a 6M goalie.

Report: Matt Murray To The Blackhawks?

Hearing oilers are now the front runners for murray. Larsson being dangled

 

[Gurglesons]

Declined the last two years? Never heard a player hit 40 goals and 70+ pts without having the luxury of playing with Crosby or Malkin declining but sure lol.

Unlike Guentzel DeBrincat was able to be the man on his line and potted 40 without one of Crosby/Malkin as his center. Not even going into how he is much younger and made the league earlier while Guentzel needed 3 and a half years in the NCAA/AHL to make an NHL team. DeBrincat has been better than Guentzel for 2 of the last 3 years and even his "down year" is a lot better than Guentzel's down year in 2018. The only thing Guentzel had was this year where DeBrincat had a slump and even then the real guentzel is a bit of an unknown considering he has barely played away from 87/71 while Cat was able to put up 50 pts with Sharp and Bouma as his linemates...

K.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Hearing oilers are now the front runners for murray. Larsson being dangled

Source?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Declined the last two years? Never heard a player hit 40 goals and 70+ pts without having the luxury of playing with Crosby or Malkin declining but sure lol.

Unlike Guentzel DeBrincat was able to be the man on his line and potted 40 without one of Crosby/Malkin as his center. Not even going into how he is much younger and made the league earlier while Guentzel needed 3 and a half years in the NCAA/AHL to make an NHL team. DeBrincat has been better than Guentzel for 2 of the last 3 years and even his "down year" is a lot better than Guentzel's down year in 2018. The only thing Guentzel had was this year where DeBrincat had a slump and even then the real guentzel is a bit of an unknown considering he has barely played away from 87/71 while Cat was able to put up 50 pts with Sharp and Bouma as his linemates...

You mean other than the 23 of those that were scored with Toews on the ice and 21 scored with Kane on the ice?