Value of: Matt Murray

[KrisLetAngry]

Only way Murray gets traded is if it is an offer we can not refuse. I'm talking someone offers a blue chip prospect that is gunna still be on an ELC think.

 

[gwh]

The only guy who's comparable is Schneider and he was older and didn't have as good of a pro track record. Bishop wasn't an established starter and was older, Halak was pretty much the same thing but a bit more established, Bobrovsky wasn't as established and had been up and down. Murray destroyed the AHL and has been lights out at the NHL level while winning a Stanley Cup, his value is through the roof. Only Carey Price is likely worth more.

Making delusional valuations never seen in the league is a bit strange. Some might say, useless? Moronic?

Either Murray is not getting traded, or his value is on par with previous starter trades (=Jones). There is no magic "OMFG We get Draisaitl for a goalie".

Why not McDavid? Surely this magic kid is worth McDavid...

Also, Murray got 13 games on the regular season. Nobody even knows whether he can maintain performance for a full year of starter duties.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Either Murray is not getting traded, or his value is on par with previous starter trades (=Jones).

Jones:

A. Was older than Murray when he was traded
B. Had worse career stats in both the AHL and NHL than Murray when he was traded
C. Wasn't the starting goalie for a cup winning team when he was traded
D. Wasn't a Conn Smythe candidate for a cup winning team when he was traded

If you're telling other people their comparisons are moronic, maybe you shouldn't be doing the same thing. There aren't any good comparisons available for Murray, because 22 year old goalies don't usually win the stanley cup as a starting goalie. Guys like Jones, Talbot and Lehner had less of a track record than what Murray had, they're not good comparables for him. The closest comparable you can make for Murray is probably Schneider, and that's if you assume that Murray's cup performance and Schneider's regular season performances from 2010 to 2013 are roughly even.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Draisaitl is certainly in the realm of realistic value, that's a premier asset right there. Big young center who's been excellent at the world cup, the NHL, and has been a Memorial Cup MVP. Really i don't think either team does it, the Oilers have Talbot and the Penguins should keep Murray over another forward given what they have.

Draisaitl just does nothing for the Pens. I'm not going to beat him up, because he's a good young player, it's just a matter of fit.

Put yourself in a Pens fans shoes...

Would you want to give up a potential franchise goalie that has already won a cup, for a guy with no real fit on your team?

If Murray is gone, that also means the Pens cup chances lay on the the unbalanced mind of MAF.

 

[Penske]

Draisaitl just does nothing for the Pens. I'm not going to beat him up, because he's a good young player, it's just a matter of fit.

Put yourself in a Pens fans shoes...

Would you want to give up a potential franchise goalie that has already won a cup, for a guy with no real fit on your team?

If Murray is gone, that also means the Pens cup chances lay on the the unbalanced mind of MAF.

If Draisaitl was offered up I take that deal. A very good young C who also plays LW. He'd score a lot playing with either Sid or Malkin. Also when Sid and/or Geno slow down it'd be nice to have someone like Draisaitl. We still have a couple good goalie prospects.

Not that Edmonton would ever offer that anyways.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If Draisaitl was offered up I take that deal. A very good young C who also plays LW. He'd score a lot playing with either Sid or Malkin. Also when Sid and/or Geno slow down it'd be nice to have someone like Draisaitl. We still have a couple good goalie prospects.

Not that Edmonton would ever offer that anyways.

I'd rather worry about the here and now when the Pens have two generational talents.

If you are comfortable with a flakey goalie like MAF to close out their careers, that's cool.

I'm not. At all, really.

Franchise goalies are almost impossible to find and when you have a young guy with that kind of potential, you better get a silly overpayment to move him.

 

[OCPenguin]

If Pittsburgh decides to keep MAF what is the value of Matt Murray? What could the Penguins reasonably expect as a return?

Oh goody ... another value of Matt Murray thread. Might be the 10,000th of them. Pittsburgh will be keeping Murray, so no need to rehash this.

 

[OCPenguin]

Making delusional valuations never seen in the league is a bit strange. Some might say, useless? Moronic?

Either Murray is not getting traded, or his value is on par with previous starter trades (=Jones). There is no magic "OMFG We get Draisaitl for a goalie".

Why not McDavid? Surely this magic kid is worth McDavid...

Also, Murray got 13 games on the regular season. Nobody even knows whether he can maintain performance for a full year of starter duties.

UMMM ... his value is higher than Jones' when he got dealt. Not too hard to figure that out.

 

[OCPenguin]

San Jose traded a first-round pick in the 2016 NHL Draft and forward prospect Sean Kuraly to get Martin Jones. Something similar to this.

Pittsburgh gets more in return than SJ gave up to get Jones. Murray has won a Cup; is younger than Jones at the time of the deal; had a better AHL career than Jones and is a 1A/1B situation goalie in Pittsburgh. Jones was nothing short of a good backup in LA.

People with a brain know Murray has more value than Jones when he was dealt.

 

[OCPenguin]

Would you pay Vegas two 1st round picks?

You aren't dealing two first round picks for them to not draft Murray. You give them a first round pick and then they pick another player off Pittsburgh's non protected list. Not hard to figure out. It won't come to that because MAF will be dealt.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

All I know is if the pens win it again and he he's even close to what he showed in the playoffs he's getting PAID, winning this world cup would help too, and he could because team North America is bombing teams

 

[OCPenguin]

Based on? You're not exactly presenting any sort of evidence or argument other than simply stating "because I think so".

Dude, I'm a Penguin fan and I think DP will be a bust. DP has given exactly what to show he will be a better player in the NHL?

 

[OCPenguin]

Matt Murray
Eric Fehr

for

Julius Honka
Brett Ritchie (50% retention)
Antti Niemi (50% retention)

*cap space moving in and out is nearly identical

This is a terrible idea for Pittsburgh. Laughable really. This is a big win for Dallas. Not close. Zero benefit for Pittsburgh.

If you are getting rid of Niemi, its for Fleury and Dallas is adding something good to the deal.

 

[OCPenguin]

That's a fair point about the trade, but he was still regarded as a high quality potential starter at the time.



1.

2. He was 25.

I think the point of it did Jones have a major impact in winning the Cup. The answer is a resounding no. He had little, if any to do with it. DP has the same amount of impact for Pittsburgh winning the Cup as Jones did for the Kings the year he was on the team. He played a whopping two games in the play-offs.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I'd rather worry about the here and now when the Pens have two generational talents.

If you are comfortable with a flakey goalie like MAF to close out their careers, that's cool.

I'm not. At all, really.

Franchise goalies are almost impossible to find and when you have a young guy with that kind of potential, you better get a silly overpayment to move him.

"Franchise goalie". Incredible!

Every team has prospects with high upside at this position.

 

[OCPenguin]

Yakupov + picks or Anton Slepyshev + Bogdan Yakimov or mix them around how you see fit . Might have to include the monster as a back up .


Edit . I am forgetting about expansion and we would lose him so scrap that offer . I am trying to build up the Oilers and not worry about expansion but this would cost us Murray or Talbot . Love to have both we would have a solid tandem for years to come

This is an embarrassing idea on your behalf. We trade a young goalie that has proven himself on every level; took over the starting goalie spot in Pittsburgh and won a Cup and in return we get a bust of a former #1 overall pick that is essentially worthless and other UNPROVEN talents? Laughable. Not even close. It seems like you don't want to give up much.

 

[Maukkis]

You aren't dealing two first round picks for them to not draft Murray. You give them a first round pick and then they pick another player off Pittsburgh's non protected list. Not hard to figure out. It won't come to that because MAF will be dealt.

I think that Pittsburgh missed the boat already. Trading Fleury is almost impossible now.

There are 29 trading partners in the league. Count out the teams who already have a goalie which the team would surely keep over MAF. (either a better goalie or a NMC one)

NJ, FLA, EDM, TBL, BOS, NSH, CBJ, WSH, CHI, MIN, COL, NYR, LAK, MTL, PHI, SJ, TOR, DET.

Only 11 teams remaining. ARI, VAN, NYI, STL, OTT, DAL, ANA, BUF, CAL, WPG, CAR.

Count out ANA, WPG, BUF, STL because their own young goalies who have to be protected.

Then you're looking at teams with a logjam at G (VAN, CAR), a lot of money spent on their goalies (DAL, VAN), teams with a desperate need for cap flexibility (NYI, DAL, CAL) or teams with a tight budget (ARI, OTT) and money spent already on their starter goalie.

Truth is, the ideal trading partner, which was Calgary, already got their solution for the time being. I strongly suspect that they also want to use him to bridge the gap to Gillies, Schneider or McDonald, so it makes no sense for them to acquire Fleury now. Dallas could use him, but there's no market for their goalie duo, which pretty much prevents the trade from happening.

I'm predicting a pretty rude awakening for the Pens fans. Maybe it's not as bad as losing Murray, but if nothing happens before June, we will likely see what happens when a team has no leverage and a move has to be made.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

"Franchise goalie". Incredible!

Every team has prospects with high upside at this position.

As A Leaf fan I can tell you that's just not true, our NHL goaltending is solid but we have NOTHING in terms of goalie prospects

 

[Shootertooter]

There is honestly nothing from the Sabres I would want in exchange for Murray. The closest thing would be Reinhart but that's not realistic.

Maybe MAF for Kane+Lehner?

Kane is a guy with a behavioral problem and a 6m cap hit, he doesn't have any value in this trade for what will become the Sabres #1.

 

[OCPenguin]

They might not have a choice. Fleury has a NMC and must be protected in expansion. He also has a NTC that allows him to dictate 18 teams he can be traded to, which doesn't look good for the Pens if Fleury decides he wants to stay in Pittsburgh. Given that there are only a handful of teams that need a starting goalie and don't already have a goalie signed for big money, all Fleury would have to do is name the 12 teams most likely to trade for him and the Pens will be screwed.

Well I shouldn't say the Pens will be screwed. Fleury is only 31 and is an above-average starter. Plus they have two promising young goalies in Jarry and Gustavsson in the organization. Even if they do end up trading Murray, the Pens have a solid future in goal.

Conventional wisdom suggests if MAF truly wants to be a prime starter in the NHL, he will waive his NMC and be more open to being shipped off somewhere. I see two or three places MAF would fit well into. Hell, we are only another injury to Price away from Montreal to come calling.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

"Franchise goalie". Incredible!

Every team has prospects with high upside at this position.

First of all I said "franchise goalie potential", but there is always a poster or two that lacks reading comprehension.

Every team has goalies that re-wrote record books in the A, then came into the NHL and won a cup his rookie year?

Enlighten me as to who these goalies are, because currently, there is just one guy who has done that.

What Murray has done isn't a fluke. He isn't a no-name prospect that came out of nowhere. He was arguably the best goalie prospect in the world before he won the cup.

Everything he has done to this point suggests he has all of the tools, especially the mental makeup, to be a franchise guy.

I'll wait on that list of yours since "every team" has goalie prospects with the same accolades as Murray.

Good luck with that.

 

[OCPenguin]

I think that Pittsburgh missed the boat already. Trading Fleury is almost impossible now.

There are 29 trading partners in the league. Count out the teams who already have a goalie which the team would surely keep over MAF. (either a better goalie or a NMC one)

NJ, FLA, EDM, TBL, BOS, NSH, CBJ, WSH, CHI, MIN, COL, NYR, LAK, MTL, PHI, SJ, TOR, DET.

Only 11 teams remaining. ARI, VAN, NYI, STL, OTT, DAL, ANA, BUF, CAL, WPG, CAR.

Count out ANA, WPG, BUF, STL because their own young goalies who have to be protected.

Then you're looking at teams with a logjam at G (VAN, CAR), a lot of money spent on their goalies (DAL, VAN), teams with a desperate need for cap flexibility (NYI, DAL, CAL) or teams with a tight budget (ARI, OTT) and money spent already on their starter goalie.

Truth is, the ideal trading partner, which was Calgary, already got their solution for the time being. I strongly suspect that they also want to use him to bridge the gap to Gillies, Schneider or McDonald, so it makes no sense for them to acquire Fleury now. Dallas could use him, but there's no market for their goalie duo, which pretty much prevents the trade from happening.

I'm predicting a pretty rude awakening for the Pens fans. Maybe it's not as bad as losing Murray, but if nothing happens before June, we will likely see what happens when a team has no leverage and a move has to be made.

Did they miss the boat not trading him to Calgary? Sure. Asking fro a top six pick was a joke. They should have asked for a third round pick and a good D prospect like Kylington, or one of the late second round picks. That said, there will be a few more suitors than you think. Vancouver to me seems like an option. Yes, rebuilding franchise, but is Markstrom a long term answer? He hasn't done much; has been a prospect for years and is a suspect now until he proves himself. Dallas is a possibility - of course, Pittsburgh would have to take back Niemi, but Dallas would have to add something to that. I can see Ottawa being a match. I can see Buffalo being a match because I don't think Lehrer is a solution. Then again, we are another injury away to Price from Montreal to be desperate and come calling.

 

[OCPenguin]

A late 1st.

You need an invitation to the JV board for this. Worth a heck of a lot more than this.

 

[Maukkis]

Did they miss the boat not trading him to Calgary? Sure. Asking fro a top six pick was a joke. They should have asked for a third round pick and a good D prospect like Kylington, or one of the late second round picks. That said, there will be a few more suitors than you think. Vancouver to me seems like an option. Yes, rebuilding franchise, but is Markstrom a long term answer? He hasn't done much; has been a prospect for years and is a suspect now until he proves himself. Dallas is a possibility - of course, Pittsburgh would have to take back Niemi, but Dallas would have to add something to that. I can see Ottawa being a match. I can see Buffalo being a match because I don't think Lehrer is a solution. Then again, we are another injury away to Price from Montreal to be desperate and come calling.

Vancouver has already tied almost 10 million to their duo. It' highly unlikely that they would acquire Fleury and play one of the three in the AHL. Ottawa and Buffalo would lose Anderson and Lehner - both player which they would not want to lose for free, especially when they wouldn't get significantly better by doing that. They are also tied money wise - Buffalo needs space for Eichart and Risto, whereas Ottawa has a strict budget and a couple of big extensions coming soon. As for Montreal, you are horribly, HORRIBLY wrong. Just think about the reason why you want Fleury gone, then you'll understand.

Dallas is the best fit, and contrary to your views, probably the only one as of now. If a deal was to be made, I think it's something like Lehtonen with a little retention for Fleury. Dallas doesn't exactly have to do you any favours, although it would be preferable to not let Murray come to the west. Possibly Niemi + someone to clear cap if Fleury's contract is longer than Niemi's, as space will be needed when Seguin needs a new deal at the same time as Niemi's contract runs out. Actually, Dallas might not even consider taking on Fleury if they see him taking up too much cap space when it's needed for Seguin and Spezza.

 

[OCPenguin]

Vancouver has already tied almost 10 million to their duo. It' highly unlikely that they would acquire Fleury and play one of the three in the AHL. Ottawa and Buffalo would lose Anderson and Lehner - both player which they would not want to lose for free, especially when they wouldn't get significantly better by doing that. They are also tied money wise - Buffalo needs space for Eichart and Risto, whereas Ottawa has a strict budget and a couple of big extensions coming soon. As for Montreal, you are horribly, HORRIBLY wrong. Just think about the reason why you want Fleury gone, then you'll understand.

Dallas is the best fit, and contrary to your views, probably the only one as of now. If a deal was to be made, I think it's something like Lehtonen with a little retention for Fleury. Dallas doesn't exactly have to do you any favours, although it would be preferable to not let Murray come to the west. Possibly Niemi + someone to clear cap if Fleury's contract is longer than Niemi's, as space will be needed when Seguin needs a new deal at the same time as Niemi's contract runs out. Actually, Dallas might not even consider taking on Fleury if they see him taking up too much cap space when it's needed for Seguin and Spezza.

Dallas would have to do Pittsburgh favors because ... its a legit Stanley Cup team ... it won't make the Cup finals with the tandem it has ... it would be getting a goalie that is solid and has won a Cup AND Dallas would be sending Pittsburgh an expensive BACKUP goalie that isn't good. Dallas adds. Simple logic says so.

Last year, no Canadian teams made the playoffs. Let that sink in. There will be pressure on some. I don't see Anderson being an answer in Ottawa moving forward. Then again, it has the worst defense in the NHL by far. Again, if CP gets injured, Montreal's goalie situation becomes terrible. Montreal fans saw that movie last year. Desperate times force the hand of GMs, especially those on the hot seat.

Lets pump your breaks on Lehner a bit. What has he done exactly to suggest he is an answer?

There are more options out there than Dallas. Most sane people realize this. However, its the best option. Doesn't mean its the only one.