Player Discussion: Mathieu Olivier

[CBJWerenski8]

The aav seems irrelevant in terms of the increasing cap. The question is Can the Jackets afford to spend to the cap when it hits 110mm?. If he GMDW can keep it below 3mm or thereabouts I'd be ok with 4 to 5 years of term You can always trade him or use a buyout.

My guess is not, I’m assuming we’ll be one of those teams that runs on an internal cap. But maybe in certain years ownership will allow more spending if the team is good. Who knows, it’ll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

 

[TingleBiscuit]

Reportedly, Montreal wants him badly. And let's not forget that he is French Canadian, which could be a very important thing in his decision. For next season they are doing well with the salary cap https://puckpedia.com/team/montreal-canadiens not to mention that the NHL salary cap will increase. Therefore, they could give him a higher contract, which could make the difference. And having Olivier on the team with A. Xhekaj, maybe even F. Xhekaj... . Nothing nice. With both players being ruled out in fights.

Montreal should want him badly- their midget team is going to get manhandled if they ever make the playoffs.

Montreal also is the most annoying franchise and fanbase ever; they want and think they deserve everything. If there's one team I'd be particularly mortified by sniping Olivier away from us, it's them.

The good news is, their taxes are so high that the offer would have to be legitimately bananas to make financial sense for Olivier.

 

[koteka]

The question is Can the Jackets afford to spend to the cap when it hits 110mm?

My guess is not, I’m assuming we’ll be one of those teams that runs on an internal cap. But maybe in certain years ownership will allow more spending if the team is good. Who knows, it’ll be interesting to see how that all plays out.

The Jackets business model seemed to be working pre-COVID with Fox Sports money coming in and a cap in the $70+ million range and the team was finally decent. I am really curious as to what happens in the next few years.

 

[Viqsi]

Sometimes I feel like our fanbase has a worse inferiority complex than a 16-year-old girl who got made fun of once by the mean girls.

Fanbase, hell. The entire city is that way. We've always been bitter about being in the shadows of Cleveland and Cincinnati.

 

[Doggy]

Fanbase, hell. The entire city is that way. We've always been bitter about being in the shadows of Cleveland and Cincinnati.

Funny, because I lived in Cleveland for ten years and I feel people there have an inferiority complex too.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

Fanbase, hell. The entire city is that way. We've always been bitter about being in the shadows of Cleveland and Cincinnati.

i'm born and raised in cbus and have never felt that way. cbus as a city >>>>>> both cincy and cleveland

 

[Viqsi]

i'm born and raised in cbus and have never felt that way. cbus as a city >>>>>> both cincy and cleveland

Later generation, maybe? I'm also Columbus born-and-raised, I'm in my mid-40s, and while it's improving of late the undercurrent is still there.

 

[squashmaple]

i'm born and raised in cbus and have never felt that way. cbus as a city >>>>>> both cincy and cleveland

Later generation, maybe? I'm also Columbus born-and-raised, I'm in my mid-40s, and while it's improving of late the undercurrent is still there.

Nah, it's deep. I'm 36 and from the Cleveland media market and we never even thought about Columbus. If we needed city amenities beyond what Cleveland could offer, we went to Detroit or Pittsburgh. It wasn't til I moved here in 2016 that I realized Columbus was anything more than three suburbs and a university in a trenchcoat. And even then... is it really? Maybe actually it's six suburbs and a university, my bad. Columbus natives are always whining that this place is soooo much better than the other two, but the other two are actual cities in a way Columbus just isn't.

And I like living here very much, don't get me wrong. But let's not kid ourselves.

 

[Monk]

Nah, it's deep. I'm 36 and from the Cleveland media market and we never even thought about Columbus. If we needed city amenities beyond what Cleveland could offer, we went to Detroit or Pittsburgh. It wasn't til I moved here in 2016 that I realized Columbus was anything more than three suburbs and a university in a trenchcoat. And even then... is it really? Maybe actually it's six suburbs and a university, my bad. Columbus natives are always whining that this place is soooo much better than the other two, but the other two are actual cities in a way Columbus just isn't.

And I like living here very much, don't get me wrong. But let's not kid ourselves.

Ohio doesn't have an "actual" city, y'all are fighting over the scraps

Spoiler

 

[Youngguns1380]

Ohio doesn't have an "actual" city, y'all are fighting over the scraps

Spoiler

- Columbus born and raised

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

but the other two are actual cities in a way Columbus just isn't..

Curious if you could explain this further.

 

[Monk]

- Columbus born and raised

Same! Or one of the suburbs, which I gather is the same thing

 

[CBJx614]

- Columbus born and raised

I've actually lived in all 3( plus a handful of others out of the state)

And honestly all 3 have their own unique feel and vibes. Granted I only lived in Cleveland as a kid (early 2000s) but it definitely has a different feel than Columbus or Cincinnati can offer. We lived in Mentor on the lake (literally 10 minutes away from lake Erie) and it felt drastically different than Columbus or Cincinnati.

While I technically lived in Dayton, I was in Cincinnati a ton as a kid for tourneys and games, I also spent quite a bit of time their when I moved back as an adult. While I'm sure people who haven't lived in Ohio wouldn't agree, but I would say each city has their own culture that's slightly different and offers something that the others can't.

 

[Monk]

I've actually lived in all 3( plus a handful of others out of the state)

And honestly all 3 have their own unique feel and vibes. Granted I only lived in Cleveland as a kid (early 2000s) but it definitely has a different feel than Columbus or Cincinnati can offer. We lived in Mentor on the lake (literally 10 minutes away from lake Erie) and it felt drastically different than Columbus or Cincinnati.

While I technically lived in Dayton, I was in Cincinnati a ton as a kid for tourneys and games, I also spent quite a bit of time their when I moved back as an adult. While I'm sure people who haven't lived in Ohio wouldn't agree, but I would say each city has their own culture that's slightly different and offers something that the others can't.

This. The beauty of any city/place is in the eye of the beholder. To each their own. Whatever floats your boat. And so on.

 

[squashmaple]

Curious if you could explain this further.

Glad you asked!

I think it comes down to when the cities originally boomed. Cleveland and Cincinnati are 19th century cities, so their downtowns are well-developed, with a real city core. They were built before cars. Columbus is a post-WWII city for better or worse. It was designed for the car. So it feels much more spread out and its downtown is far more hollow than the other two. Walk around Public Square and compare how that feels to... any public space in downtown Columbus.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

Nah, it's deep. I'm 36 and from the Cleveland media market and we never even thought about Columbus. If we needed city amenities beyond what Cleveland could offer, we went to Detroit or Pittsburgh. It wasn't til I moved here in 2016 that I realized Columbus was anything more than three suburbs and a university in a trenchcoat. And even then... is it really? Maybe actually it's six suburbs and a university, my bad. Columbus natives are always whining that this place is soooo much better than the other two, but the other two are actual cities in a way Columbus just isn't.

And I like living here very much, don't get me wrong. But let's not kid ourselves.

I guess that’s why I never felt like I was living in the shadows of Cleveland or Cincy. I don’t think those cities provide a superior experience to cbus so why would I feel that way? Of course being from cbus I feel like my city is better

 

[Viqsi]

Same! Or one of the suburbs, which I gather is the same thing

City proper and a couple suburbs, here. Literally my entire life excepting approximately a year and a half or so at BGSU.

 

[Viqsi]

It wasn't til I moved here in 2016 that I realized Columbus was anything more than three suburbs and a university in a trenchcoat. And even then... is it really? Maybe actually it's six suburbs and a university, my bad.

I confess I'm curious as to which three folks think of. If I had to guess I'd assume UA and Bexley are two of them since they're the old money ones, but the third eludes me.

 

[Xoggz22]

So... Back to Olivier...

I see no evidence of him wanting to leave and in fact he has deep roots. Granted that all changes when it comes to money and security. I still think a 4 year deal for $2.5-$3.0AAV should be a good fit for both. He loves the guys here, has a great role and can move a bit in the lineup and is great in the room. He offers something no others on the team do and I think Waddell recognizes that so they WILL find common ground. He's a player that even if we overpay a little, won't hurt the roster because the way the CAP will move. It will all come down to how successful this team can become and what the internal payroll controls might be (if any).

Oh yeah... I'm a transplant from NY and have spent time in all three cities, along with college in Springfield, and Columbus takes the cake! Hands down.

 

[domi28]

Nothing you said is false; I just don't understand everyone's impression that for any reason CBJ is going to be any less willing to offer fair market rate than anyone else. This isn't a poverty franchise (contrary to peoples' uninformed whining about such things), we know what we have, he's a valuable priority, and he hasn't expressed any interest in leaving.

We have access to the same data as anyone else, and to do the market research to determine a fair offer. We are perfectly capable of developing and making said competitive offer. We have no reason not to do so, every indication of intention to do so, and he seems to have no reason not to negotiate it fairly and eventually reach a compromise with our (his) team. The only question I see is whether he thinks a likely rather modest pay differential is worth risking a less happy career prime doing something less awesome for a team of possible losers. Beyond that, he basically called our city awesome and everything about it fantastic in the interview that aired something like yesterday.

Sometimes I feel like our fanbase has a worse inferiority complex than a 16-year-old girl who got made fun of once by the mean girls.

I'm not really worried about Waddell not offering a fair contract. I'm more worried that Olivier hasn't made much money relative to his career so he (and his agent) are going seek out the best deal they can get and a very large part of that will be contract valuation. Waddell could be offering something like $2.25m AAV over three years and that would be fair market value in my mind. Someone else may come along July 1st and offer $2.5m over four years and I would also consider that fair market value. That's only about a 10% difference in AAV but it ends up being about a $3m difference in guaranteed income. FWIW The Hockey News has his next contract at the $2.25m/3yr valuation but have noted with the very large upcoming cap increases it's going to be a lot harder to figure out fair value. If Olivier decides to leave it won't have anything to do with the franchise or city or garages or whatever. It could just be strictly a business decision he makes.

I confess I'm curious as to which three folks think of. If I had to guess I'd assume UA and Bexley are two of them since they're the old money ones, but the third eludes me.

Dublin maybe? Or New Albany?

 

[Doggy]

I have not spent any real time in Cincy but ten years in Cleveland and now 3+ in Morrow County with Columbus as my nearest city. The two are very different (and I am not talking about the suburbs, just the downtown).

Cleveland feels more accessible to me, I feel like I can go downtown, park and can reach any district on foot whether it's the Flats, Warehouse District, North Coast, Public Square, Gateway or Theater District. I love walking from district to district in Cleveland, feels more like exploring than anything else. Love their architecture! Heck, even the walk across the pedestrian friendly Hope Memorial Bridge is kinda cool (if not long) as it crosses the Cuyahoga into the cool vibes of Ohio City.

When I go down to Columbus, you can easily walk between the Arena District and Short North but most of the districts feel more "disconnected" from each other, it lacks continuity. It's not a dig, it's just the way it feels to me. Hoping that C-Bus starts to get a more accessible feel as they implement their pedestrian friendly roadways. I agree with squash maple, I suspect it has much to do with when the cities had their boom time.

I did not always feel this way about Cleveland. There was a time when it felt like a downtown people worked in or went downtown for an event but then left as quickly as they could. Now it feels like you could go downtown and enjoy an entire day. And with all the residential that's opened up in the downtown area it feels more livable. Columbus can get there and the downtown is growing fast...I bet it does and won't take as long as it took Cleveland.

 

[Doggy]

I confess I'm curious as to which three folks think of. If I had to guess I'd assume UA and Bexley are two of them since they're the old money ones, but the third eludes me.

Being originally from the NYC area, I knew of Shaker Heights but couldn't have named a single suburb of Columbus before moving to Ohio. Having been here 3+ years now, certainly UA and Bexley have the cache but I think Worthington and Dublin are just as appealing and Uptown Westerville is pretty nice.

 

[majormajor]

Glad you asked!

I think it comes down to when the cities originally boomed. Cleveland and Cincinnati are 19th century cities, so their downtowns are well-developed, with a real city core. They were built before cars. Columbus is a post-WWII city for better or worse. It was designed for the car. So it feels much more spread out and its downtown is far more hollow than the other two. Walk around Public Square and compare how that feels to... any public space in downtown Columbus.

This is a very succinct description of why Columbus can feel ... placeless... if I may use that word.

There are some things that Columbus can do to rectify that. There is actual urban energy in short north and nearby neighborhoods, but it's cut off from downtown. A cover over 670 - with park space or other amenities - would allow people to walk across that area casually without their blood pressure jumping up (a well studied phenomenon when people walk near highways).

A single north-south light rail would connect downtown to those neighborhoods, (as well as very interesting neighborhoods like German Village). Light rail tends to spur apartment building and retail. Comparable sized cities around the country are building it and booming from it so there isn't a great reason Columbus can't do that.

 

[Monk]

This is a very succinct description of why Columbus can feel ... placeless... if I may use that word.

100%

That's absolutely a factor in why I left - I experienced that connectedness factor in other cities (NYC and DC) and how much I could do and see just on foot and via public transportation. I loved not having a car. But again, that's just my preference. Others might say something completely opposite like "Wow it's really nice to be able to hop in the car that's in my garage, drive to a grocery store and park in a parking lot and realistically purchase more than a few days groceries at a time!"

Squash's explanation why makes a ton of sense, hadn't considered that before.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm not really worried about Waddell not offering a fair contract. I'm more worried that Olivier hasn't made much money relative to his career so he (and his agent) are going seek out the best deal they can get and a very large part of that will be contract valuation. Waddell could be offering something like $2.25m AAV over three years and that would be fair market value in my mind. Someone else may come along July 1st and offer $2.5m over four years and I would also consider that fair market value. That's only about a 10% difference in AAV but it ends up being about a $3m difference in guaranteed income. FWIW The Hockey News has his next contract at the $2.25m/3yr valuation but have noted with the very large upcoming cap increases it's going to be a lot harder to figure out fair value. If Olivier decides to leave it won't have anything to do with the franchise or city or garages or whatever. It could just be strictly a business decision he makes.



Dublin maybe? Or New Albany?

If we’re assuming the three thing and the two off the top that were suggested, the third is Dublin.