PlayersLtd
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And how is Joseph not exactly what we need in our bottom six?
Traded Mathieu Joseph (RW)
- Thread starter AchtzehnBaby
- Start date
If you dive into their career stats, one of things you'll see is that Joseph produces assists at a much higher level than Paul. Since the trade, 1 game in 3 versus 1 game in 5. It's a decent sample size. What can you take from that?
Looking at this year where Joseph is healthy, what I take from it (thru watching but supported by numbers) is that you can put Joseph with anyone and his speed and hockey sense are leading to goals. He's in on plays that result in goals. I never saw that from Nick Paul. Ever. And the numbers support what I saw. Paul is a gifted physical specimen (in more ways than one) and it results in him scoring but it doesn't really result in the line he's on scoring. He just simply doesn't make a lot of plays. He'll disrupt a breakout and rip a shot and score in the least expected moment but for the most part, he's got way more tools than toolbox.
Not disputing that we don't need Joseph in our bottom six, but I think a player exactly like Paul on the 3rd line is what we're lacking most (quality sandpaper) up front. We're lacking sandpaper on the defense as well. We're too easy to play against.
Micklebot
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I think once Pinto is back, a third line of Greig-Pinto-Joseph has plenty of quality sandpaper.
PlayersLtd
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And if we didn't have Joseph we would be lacking speed and elite penalty killing...
The notion that Nick Paul is a sandpaper guy is a bit of a myth. He doesn't bring that element nearly as much as an actually gritty player. He doesn't fight, he doesn't hit much and he doesn't intimidate. In fact, in the sandpaper regard he leaves you wanting more.
So if we had Nick Paul we would have one less penalty killer, considerably less speed, less scoring and we would still feel the need to add sandpaper. He plays a bit heavier, he is a good net front presence and he is better in the cycle. That's about it. I'm not exchanging that for Joseph's tool set.
I always thought he was a quality PKer. He will wear down opposing defenders with the size, from either hits or cycles, extra valuable in playoff games.
I think Paul is being sold a little low on that evaluation, my opinion. I like to have a balanced team with skill and sandpaper. I think the balance is a little too skewed towards the skill right now and we're easy to play against.
BondraTime
Registered User
That would be terrible for the Sens
Paul has 6 ES points this year. Half of his production is being put in front of the net on the most talented PP in the league for Kucherov and Point to blast pucks off.
He's a ~30 point 3rd liner while getting prime PP, top 6 icetime, and no/little PK time.
He's legitimately getting 3:42 PP time per game, that is absolutely wild. Same as Pasternak.
Joseph is getting 1:20 per game on the 2nd unit. I'm sure with another 2:20 PP time per game on our top unit he'd have another 3+ points.
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I think there's an overvaluing Joseph and underrating Paul going on in this thread. Tampa isn't giving Paul all that ice-time because he's a piece of shit. That franchise is the standard and they know his worth. If you go read his player discussion thread on that forum, they are absolutely stoked about his play and have described him as finally playing like a power forward this season.
I love what Joseph has done, and I essentially wrote him off last season, he's the most improved player on the team this year. But I also want to see this done consistently before I view this as the final product. This is the same thing that happened when he first got here and Dorion jumped the gun with that 4 year contract. Both valuable pieces, in a perfect world we have both on the 3rd line.
dumbdick
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Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
A very rare Dorion move that didn't blow up in our face but actually did the opposite.
Joseph's contract is not an issue anymore, it's actually one of the biggest bargains in the league (not counting ELCs)
Uh... you can't have Paul and Kastelic in the same sentence... It's not about skill or physicality. It's comparing a 3rd line even middle-6 forward to a 4th liner. This is like saying Kelly could replace Joseph, less skill but more physicality.
Joseph's contract is not an issue anymore, it's actually one of the biggest bargains in the league (not counting ELCs)
Uh... you can't have Paul and Kastelic in the same sentence... It's not about skill or physicality. It's comparing a 3rd line even middle-6 forward to a 4th liner. This is like saying Kelly could replace Joseph, less skill but more physicality.
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It’s so bizarre how everyone is after Joseph for the Larkin incident.
Watching the replay its clear as day that it was Kelly who dealt the KO blow.
Neither were malicious but if you’re going to pick someone to be mad at, be mad at Kelly.
Watching the replay its clear as day that it was Kelly who dealt the KO blow.
Neither were malicious but if you’re going to pick someone to be mad at, be mad at Kelly.
Micklebot
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The Detroit feed only showed it from the initial angle as far as I've seen, and the commentators were quick to call it a crosscheck to the head and highlight past history between Larkin and Joseph. Det fans first impressions would have been formed by that context and first impressions are tough to break.
Sens of Anarchy
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That’s what I attributed it to initially but now it’s been days, the coach has said it was correctly called, analysts have pored over it ad nauseam, not even a hint of supplemental discipline for the sens guys… you’d think people might reconsider. Instead we’re still seeing comments from some hoping for retribution against Joseph.
bert
Registered User
They need both. Not sure if anyone noticed but he missed an easy pass on his back hand first shift. He really needs to play left wing. It's so obvious he is way better on LW. Why can't this coaching staff identify this. It's kinds crazy at this point.
Again they need both.
Micklebot
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People don't change their minds about things when there's a tribal element to the situation, especially not on HF, lol. Not sure what you were expecting...
I guess I have misplaced faith in humanity lol
Unfortunately we are not getting back Formenton, we have to move on, he was sick and trending up to be the perfect 3rd liner before he was banished from the league. Neither the PA nor the organization is in any hurry to get him back into the league.
Of course he would’ve been dynamite. But that boat has sailed for the Sens. Joseph fills the need and then some, Formenton was perhaps flashing better finishing abilities before shit hit the fan.
Sens of Anarchy
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Formenton also plays with more of an edge and certainly was showing more offense so early in his career. Joseph has been good this year. I think on the 3rd line role I'd like to see more physicality but he certainly brings energy , disruption, and contributes.
bert
Registered User
I don't agree about formenton. It's more and more looking like nothing is coming from the team canada situation. Every single other player that was there is still playing. Dorion should have treated formenton like everyone else innocent until proven guilty. But he didn't and now he's gone so I think if canada players get cleared. I see no reason why he can't come back.
MarkStone
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