Injury Report: Mathew Dumba - Returns Tonight vs. CHI

[BusQuets]

Heh, I have been secretly hoping the same the minute Wild drafted him.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Subban is a Norris-caliber player and one of the best 7 defensemen in the league. I'd settle for a '2nd pairing Subban'.

 

[rynryn]

want that swagger, and the mix of spot-picking physical and explosive offense. even if it is to a lesser degree but still at a high rate.

 

[forthewild]

Subban is a Norris-caliber player and one of the best 7 defensemen in the league. I'd settle for a '2nd pairing Subban'.

At one point Subban was a 2nd round pick with questions to his game and whether his brand of play will ever be effective at the NHL level. Subban DEVELOPED into the norris candidate and winner by getting better. I agree with you, I'd be happy if Dumba became anywhere near Subban, but we have to give the kid time, he does have time and he does have some great pieces in place at the NHL level in Suter/Brodin/+ that can help him be a bit riskier in his play with out getting burned. He will grow and develop, I feel there is a vocal group on these boards who think a guy is a bust if he isn't getting a Norris nod a year after getting drafted. Just remember what people here said about Brodin...

 

[thestonedkoala]

I feel there is a vocal group on these boards who think a guy is a bust if he isn't getting a Norris nod a year after getting drafted.

Some of us are more than concerned about a prospect taken 7th overall (top 10) that has consistently shown the same flaws that he had when drafted; that has shown little development and has actually taken a step back in terms of development. Comparing Dumba with Subban is dumb because Subban was taken in the 2nd round and didn't have the expectations that Dumba has as a top 10 pick.

Most us are concerned because Dumba still has significant holes in his game and guys like Maata and Trouba have shown tremendous amount of progress since getting drafted.

If Dumba was a 2nd round pick, I don't think we would be having this discussion until he made it into the AHL and had a season under his belt. But we would like to see a bit more development from him.

The fact that he had to be traded to Portland to show some progression (and even that is iffy) is a concern. And before you even mention his points, Derrick Pouliot the guy taken after him? Put up 70 points in 58 games or 1.20 PPGs compared to Dumba's .92 PPG.

Do we think Dumba is going to bust? No, but he has certainly shown he is a much more of a project than first sold.

Just remember what people here said about Brodin...

Right after the draft? Sure. Then Brodin played his second year, got injured but showed tremendous amount of progress in the SEL. He then jumped ship to the AHL, played a handful of games there and became a top 3 defenseman for the Wild for the entire time he's been here. Dumba couldn't even get on the ice for most of the games. Brodin has shown tremendous stride and progression the year after he was drafted. Dumba struggled for first half of the season, settled down a bit in the second half. He also had a terrible WJC compared to Brodin. There was a lot of hope for Brodin after his second season. Dumba? There is some worry and concern because of how little he has progressed.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Some of us are more than concerned about a prospect taken 7th overall (top 10) that has consistently shown the same flaws that he had when drafted; that has shown little development and has actually taken a step back in terms of development. Comparing Dumba with Subban is dumb because Subban was taken in the 2nd round and didn't have the expectations that Dumba has as a top 10 pick.

Most us are concerned because Dumba still has significant holes in his game and guys like Maata and Trouba have shown tremendous amount of progress since getting drafted.

If Dumba was a 2nd round pick, I don't think we would be having this discussion until he made it into the AHL and had a season under his belt. But we would like to see a bit more development from him.

The fact that he had to be traded to Portland to show some progression (and even that is iffy) is a concern. And before you even mention his points, Derrick Pouliot the guy taken after him? Put up 70 points in 58 games or 1.20 PPGs compared to Dumba's .92 PPG.

Do we think Dumba is going to bust? No, but he has certainly shown he is a much more of a project than first sold.



Right after the draft? Sure. Then Brodin played his second year, got injured but showed tremendous amount of progress in the SEL. He then jumped ship to the AHL, played a handful of games there and became a top 3 defenseman for the Wild for the entire time he's been here. Dumba couldn't even get on the ice for most of the games. Brodin has shown tremendous stride and progression the year after he was drafted. Dumba struggled for first half of the season, settled down a bit in the second half. He also had a terrible WJC compared to Brodin. There was a lot of hope for Brodin after his second season. Dumba? There is some worry and concern because of how little he has progressed.

That's your concern. Not mine. You ever think his point production went down because he's actively trying to improve his defensive game? Of course not, that would be too insightful.

 

[Avder]

I'm not going to get into it with you, TSK, but I'd just like to say that I am pretty sure the Wild held on to him up here in the NHL as long as they did in no small part due to the fact that his rights were owned by Red Deer at that point. They probably felt Red Deer would do nothing to help, and quite possibly might have hindered, his development. So our options up until the day his rights got traded to Portland were to have him stay with the big club and get practice in with men, or send him back to a chl club that we evidently did not care much for as far as developing a defenseman.

He's taking a while developing. Blame it on that god damn NHL/CHL agreement. Screw that rag. I wouldn't use it to line a bird cage. The sooner the NHL puts the spurs to the CHL and gets something better so we can start sending top prospects straight to the AHL the sooner we will stop seeing episodes like this with CHL players.

 

[Minnesota]

It's obvious to see he made progression in the WHL. I think the true test comes next year when he makes the jump to the AHL. That's when we'll be able to gauge the speed at which he's actually progressing.

(Red Deer) 2010-11: 26 points in 62 games = .41 PPG, +24 on season

(Red Deer) 2011-12: 57 points in 69 games = .82 PPG, -6 on season

(Red Deer) 2012-13: 42 points in 62 games = .67 PPG, +10 on season [Sutter asked Dumba to play a more defensive game]

(Portland) 2012-13: 24 points in 26 games = .92 PPG / 18 points in 21 playoff games

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

God forbid prospects having different developmental curves and progressing at their own rates to the NHL...

 

[Minnesota]

God forbid prospects having different developmental curves and progressing at their own rates to the NHL...

It's only fair comparing his development curve to Trouba, Määttä, and Pouliot because of their draft position, right? It's not like they're individual players with individual development curves!

 

[thestonedkoala]

That's your concern. Not mine. You ever think his point production went down because he's actively trying to improve his defensive game? Of course not, that would be too insightful.

I don't care about his point production. I'm more concerned about his awareness and his defensive liability. Neither of which were stellar when drafted and still have not improvded.

He's taking a while developing. Blame it on that god damn NHL/CHL agreement. Screw that rag. I wouldn't use it to line a bird cage. The sooner the NHL puts the spurs to the CHL and gets something better so we can start sending top prospects straight to the AHL the sooner we will stop seeing episodes like this with CHL players.

Except hundreds, if not thousands, of NHL players have come through the CHL perfectly fine and have developed just fine while in the WHL. Why is it that only Minnesota players seem to have this difficulty of developing? The CHL is a problem but Minnesota compounds it and then uses the AHL/CHL agreement as a scapegoat. The fact is Dumba showed little progression in the WHL and that's partly on him.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I don't care about his point production. I'm more concerned about his awareness and his defensive liability. Neither of which were stellar when drafted and still have not improvded.



Except hundreds, if not thousands, of NHL players have come through the CHL perfectly fine and have developed just fine while in the WHL. Why is it that only Minnesota players seem to have this difficulty of developing? The CHL is a problem but Minnesota compounds it and then uses the AHL/CHL agreement as a scapegoat. The fact is Dumba showed little progression in the WHL and that's partly on him.

Prove it.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Prove it.

I could say the same thing to you; prove that he has developed.

He was heavily criticized for a poor WJC last season and was cut in 2012 from that squad (both of which are huge disappointments for a top 10 pick). His first half of the 2012-2013 season was also panned by Minnesota fans;

There's only so much you can do in practice. Dumba's problems aren't skating or shooting or stuff you work on in drills, it's decision making, reading and reacting to plays, etc. He needs game action.

Well when it's so many who say that there has to be some truth to it. Dumba's hockey IQ seems to be a serious question mark.

Lots and lots of people on the WJC board saying Dumba has played badly, should be cut, and so on.

I haven't been able to watch this at all. Surely they are overreacting, right?

They're on right now live on NHL Network.

I just think that Dumba's game is just not going to translate. At the junior level, he's an instinctive player, who flashes up the ice and has a heavy shot. Defensively, he's either looking for the big hit in the neutral zone, or backing off into a passive role. That can work in juniors, but not in the pros.

He's going to get killed on his gaps, and his backward skating is not a strength. Once he gets caught out of position a few times when he goes for the big hit (which has happened a bunch this season for him), he's going to start claming-up, and there goes any instinctive part of his defensive game. He's going to start thinking more, and its highly questionable whether he will either be able to transition to a more celebral game or tune his instincts toward a pro-style.

All that said, I agree that the best course of action is to bring him along very slowly. He's going to have to slowly learn the pro game and keep his confidence up.

He's playing against guys his own age or younger, so he should dominate...after all he's a 1st rounder. But he struggled in Houston after last season (saw several of those games) and his approx. 10 minutes of ice time in his NHL run this season was mostly PP time it seems versus even strength.

He has a long way to go. But Wild management will continue to give him chances as they have to "justify" the his being picked over Trouba, Ceci or Maatta.

Exactly, the Wild brass have to do this, in order to save face.

Also, people complaining about YEO changing Dumba's game. Well of course they need to change it. The guy is weak defensively. The Wild don't need a Mike Green, they need a two way player, and Dumba is a Mike Green like player.


Lastly, if anyone thinks Dumba should be playing with the WILD this year ... have you ever seen the kid play this season? Talk about a deer frozen in the headlights. The kid is not even close to being ready mentally. HOPEFULLY in 3 years he can become a usable 3rd pair D-man.

The problem with the Dumba pick was that his "strengths" were things that don't really translate to the NHL.

How often do you see NHL Dmen carrying the puck end-to-end?

How often do you see NHL Dmen stepping up in the neutral zone and making open-ice hits?

How often do you see not-quite 6 feet tall NHL Dmen physically dominate their opponents?

How often do you see NHL Dmen make risky plays on the offensive blueline over and over again for positive results?

The answer to all those questions is very rarely. Because NHL players are too smart and too good for those high risk plays that work in junior.

What scares me about Dumba is that he projects out as a #6, PP specialist if he can't round out his game.

I never saw Campbell make the kind of brain farts in his end that Dumba seems prone to, nor the physical element. They are both smaller puck rushers I guess.

But Dumba's still super raw and years away from being in the NHL.

I have seen Dumba a few times since he joined Portland, the only notes I have on him are those that have already been said. He loves to rush the puck and use his booming shot, not very good defensively, takes stupid penalties. I think he just lacks hockey sense, he could be a good PP quarterback, probably 4th-5th defenseman.

Portland isn't asking him to be anything other than basically a fourth forward on the ice.

The biggest knock on Dumba is his hockey sense, which unfortunately is the #1 determinate of whether a guy is going to be an NHL Dman. He's the anti-Spurgeon.

But not every 19-year-old struggles with decision making against other 19-year-olds. Decision making has never been Dumba's strong point.

Furthermore, even his Hockey's Future bio states this:

His defensive game could use some work, but that may not be his ticket to the NHL, anyway

 

[Minnesota]

Luckily his offensive skills are the reason we drafted him.

 

[Jarick]

It's interesting that the Wild pulled Dumba out of Red Deer while they were being coached by a former NHL coach (Brent Sutter).

 

[thestonedkoala]

Luckily his offensive skills are the reason we drafted him.

Great. So does that mean he'll be moving to forward? Because we're missing a dynamic forward there.

 

[Johnny Danger]

how do you like Dumba's play and development this season so far?

 

[MuckOG]

how do you like Dumba's play and development this season so far?

His play has been erratic...but he is providing glimpses of what he can be. I wouldn't be shocked if he were sent to Iowa for a while to get a little more seasoning, especially now that Folin appears to be healthy.

 

[DeuceMN]

He does make some plays that are truly impressive, followed up by a WTF moment. It's kinda funny Sometimes...

After seeing him play more this season, I can see why Fletch was interested in him.

 

[Circulartheory]

Dumba looks like a rookie with alot of raw potential. Like your stereotypical rookie, he still trying to find his groove. He's alright, and you can see the potential there, its just the game is a little quick for him which he is still adjusting to.

 

[Minnesota]

He'll be awesome in a few years.

Raw talent is definitely there. He just needs to find consistency, like Scandella had to.

 

[Al Lagoon]

He'll be awesome in a few years.

Raw talent is definitely there. He just needs to find consistency, like Scandella had to.

And Burns before him.

Still I'd rather have Dumba out there, making the occasional gaffe and perhaps learning from it, than Ballard, or Falk for that matter, making the same gaffes.

 

[Avder]

I'd like to see Dumba spend some time in Iowa to get seasoned.

 

[TaLoN]

Kid played great all night long tonight...and that shot! Holy crap that was a laser!

 

[Al Lagoon]

Kid played great all night long tonight...and that shot! Holy crap that was a laser!

All the more reason to keep him up with the Wild. He was exposed playing top 4 minutes vs. the Sharks because of injuries, but he can learn playing up here. Even being a bottom pairing NHL guy will pit you vs. elite talent on the road with last change. He will be a much better player come playoff time playing bottom 6 minutes with the Wild than playing top minutes in Iowa vs. the Warren Peters of the world.