It seems the only way CS would get any respect is if his name was Marty Brodeur his numbers don't seem to matter so much. When he put up stellar numbers over 15 games they said well its only 15 games then when the numbers continued at 30 and 33 games played people say well its only 30 games it proves nothing till he can do it for 70 then when he ever gets a chance to do it for 70 people will say but yeah can he play 82 straight and keep up those numbers????His detractors always point to games played but that has nothing to do with CS hes done what any reasonable goalie should do to earn more starts but doesn't get them, that's out of his control. What he does control is save% and gaa and hes led the league for three years now in both those statistics.
Marty vs Cory Part II (Mod Warning Post 1)
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It seems the only way CS would get any respect is if his name was Marty Brodeur his numbers don't seem to matter so much. When he put up stellar numbers over 15 games they said well its only 15 games then when the numbers continued at 30 and 33 games played people say well its only 30 games it proves nothing till he can do it for 70 then when he ever gets a chance to do it for 70 people will say but yeah can he play 82 straight and keep up those numbers????His detractors always point to games played but that has nothing to do with CS hes done what any reasonable goalie should do to earn more starts but doesn't get them, that's out of his control. What he does control is save% and gaa and hes led the league for three years now in both those statistics.
AfroThunder396
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That's 100 points. With the way the rest of the conference is playing I'd say 90 will be closer to the cutoff and we should aim for 92-94 to be safe.
I love when people say he's below average.
He's putting up virtually the same numbers he did in 2012 & the team is within range of 2012 performance. If below average is battling none other than J. Quick for the Cup and Conn Smythe in June, then I would love to hear what average and what terrible is.
I love when people say he's below average.
He's putting up virtually the same numbers he did in 2012 & the team is within range of 2012 performance. If below average is battling none other than J. Quick for the Cup and Conn Smythe in June, then I would love to hear what average and what terrible is.
MB ranked 42nd in save% since 2011
TheDevilMadeMe
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I love when people say he's below average.
He's putting up virtually the same numbers he did in 2012 & the team is within range of 2012 performance. If below average is battling none other than J. Quick for the Cup and Conn Smythe in June, then I would love to hear what average and what terrible is.
FMASC really needed to say "other than the 2012 playoffs" when he made that statement. Marty was great then, but he has not been that good in the regular season for a few years.
billingtons ghost
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SV% is a flawed stat in many ways - particularly with reference to Marty's game. There's a discussion on the greatest goaltender's of all time thread if you are interested. I won't go into it again.
billingtons ghost
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ThePSEGPowerPoster
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We just need to find a healthy middle ground and we likely can put this thread to bed until the playoffs. Can't we all agree that while Cory is the better goalie, Marty isn't costing this team every game the team loses? Can't we all agree that Cory should be the number 1 option, but Marty should get some starts if earned?
Putting aside speculative things like Vezinas for a minute. What are we really arguing about? I think mostly everyone here agrees. Some are just not ready to crown Cory the savior or Marty done for good year. Which is fine.
Putting aside speculative things like Vezinas for a minute. What are we really arguing about? I think mostly everyone here agrees. Some are just not ready to crown Cory the savior or Marty done for good year. Which is fine.
lol you just did go into it but I disagree if that's allowed save % is mentioned by pretty much every hockey analyst when discussing goaltenders
I respect him I just don't put too much weight strictly on numbers or a pair of statistics that only gives you a fraction of the whole picture. Numbers will give you a picture of how a player is performing and a platform to compare players, but they don't win you anything in reality. A perfect example is Marty's "horrible" reg season SP% in 2012, the good ol days when the boards wanted Hedberd to start (sound familiar?
) and then Marty went nuts until our team collapsed in game 6 of the SCF. Or take a look at Lundqvist, putting up bad numbers this season, but come April he could heat up and be downright scary.Cory is the goalie of the future, but to waste Marty(who is putting up decent numbers and playing at a very high level) while he's still around and capable of winning, is not a smart move. If Marty gets on one of his retro hot runs, I don't care if Cory has a 0.55 GAA and a .978 SP%, I personally go with Marty because I know that guy can carry us all the way, even at age 42.
Next year, if we don't win it all this year, I start to ease Marty into the backup role and begin to give Cory a large majority of starts. From that point on it becomes Cory's team 100% with a legend backing him up. If our team's scoring issues are corrected, Marty/Cory could run away with the division next year.
billingtons ghost
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Maybe you are completely disregarding the fact that (as I pointed to Talbot, Jones et al below) it HELPS Cory considerably to NOT have to be the man yet.
If Brodeur goes down in the first week of the season, I don't know if Cory has the same stats. Maybe he does.
History typically isn't kind to goalies who have to suit up for 70 games a year.
I'm not sure if you or anyone on the board understand the 'current performance does not predict future results' disclaimer. It's just not that cut and dry.
We'll get a chance next year to see Cory over 60+, 70 games.
He will shortly be reaching his max-games played record.
I hope he gets all of the starts except back-to-backs as long as his play keeps up.
AfroThunder396
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I love when people say he's below average.
He's putting up virtually the same numbers he did in 2012 & the team is within range of 2012 performance. If below average is battling none other than J. Quick for the Cup and Conn Smythe in June, then I would love to hear what average and what terrible is.
Brodeur's regular season and playoff numbers in 2012 where quite different. You act like he was playing at the same level from October to June and he simply wasn't.
I've made my opinion on SV% very well known but it does have its uses. Anything under .910 is just not good.
This is exactly what I mean, just looking at that you would say he's been a joke. Yet he was going neck to neck with Quick for the Cup and the Conn Smythe in 2012. I don't put too much weight into Save%.
I respect him I just don't put too much weight strictly on numbers or a pair of statistics that only gives you a fraction of the whole picture. Numbers will give you a picture of how a player is performing and a platform to compare players, but they don't win you anything in reality. A perfect example is Marty's "horrible" reg season SP% in 2012, the good ol days when the boards wanted Hedberd to start (sound familiar?
Cory is the goalie of the future, but to waste Marty(who is putting up decent numbers and playing at a very high level) while he's still around and capable of winning, is not a smart move. If Marty gets on one of his retro hot runs, I don't care if Cory has a 0.55 GAA and a .978 SP%, I personally go with Marty because I know that guy can carry us all the way, even at age 42.
Next year, if we don't win it all this year, I start to ease Marty into the backup role and begin to give Cory a large majority of starts. From that point on it becomes Cory's team 100% with a legend backing him up. If our team's scoring issues are corrected, Marty/Cory could run away with the division next year.
marty played well in 2012 playoffs yes but I thin he was only lights out in one maybe two series. I followed and cheered for NJ right after the nucks were eliminated by LA and looked to me like there were many players for new jersey that picked up their game for those playoffs and had as much to do with how far you guys got as marty did.
Yes, correct, but remember the people crying to start Hedberg (like with Cory now) because Marty's reg season numbers were "bad"? How do you think 2012 would have went if we rolled with Heddy in the playoffs?
he did have a poor regular season by his standards and nobody was picking NJ to get out of the first round that year based on reg season, everyone picked it up for the playoffs for sure and was a great playoffs for new jersey but it wasn't expected to happen that way
Absolutely, the team played at a high level, Marty didn't carry them alone, but if you ask most fans would say he was a very big part they went to game 6 of the SCF & that he was one of the Conn Smythe leaders if the Devils won. Only other player from NJ would probably be Kovy but he faded heavily in the SCF.
billingtons ghost
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absolutely. For lack of anything else except GAA which is even more flawed and dependent upon team play.
It is by far the best tool we have to measure goaltenders. That's not saying much.
It also has nothing to do with missed shots or shot quality.
We can give up 18 shots against but 5 breakaways, or 47 shots against that are all from outside. Historically, this team has always defaulted to the former. We are always low in shots against with spectacular defensive breakdowns.
Personally I was never a hedberg fan anyhow but he also never put up numbers like CS does and has consistently for several years now. I think comparing the hedberg situation to the Schneider one would be apples to oranges imo, marty was younger and had lots of time left on his contract, its a different story now I think but I may be wrong.
I probably sound like a fanboy when saying stuff like this, but the unique thing about Marty which makes him the GOAT, is you can never count him out. Even this season he's been battling Cory almost neck and neck at some points even though everyone dismissed him completely. Its that winning attitude that you can qualify by numbers that makes him truly great & gives me confidence to play him if he gets hot, even at 42.
Cory is amazing, but come playoff time, if Marty is playing well it might be smarter to roll with the guy who always seems to pull a rabbit out of his hat whenever he is dismissed as a broken down toy.
I agree with you on gaa which is why I didn't mention it too lol I think gaa has more to do with team play than save% does I think save%, though ill give you does not tell the whole story, is the best indicator right now for goalies and things they can control
ThePSEGPowerPoster
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I love Marty and do believe he has some gas in the tank to pull out a ridiculous vintage win but if we make the playoffs the games will be low scoring anyway.
I think you have to run with a hot Cory...
I think you have to run with a hot Cory...
This Cory thing is much like the Hedberg fiasco except on a grander scale. People were saying the same things, that Marty can't do it, he should retire, let Heddy play, look at those horrible stats. Everyone got quiet from April-June when Marty returned to form. If you watched him closely though, you knew he had it in him still.
I just feel Marty absolutely has another "The reports about my death have been greatly exaggerated" in him
That doesn't mean Cory is bad or shouldn't play, just make room for Marty when the magician is ready to pull a few tricks to dazzle us.
Playoffs will be interesting times for this team.
That doesn't mean Cory is bad or shouldn't play, just make room for Marty when the magician is ready to pull a few tricks to dazzle us.
Playoffs will be interesting times for this team.
ThePSEGPowerPoster
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I just feel Marty absolutely has another "The reports about my death have been greatly exaggerated" in him
That doesn't mean Cory is bad or shouldn't play, just make room for Marty when the magician is ready to pull a few tricks to dazzle us.
Playoffs will be interesting times for this team.
I felt that way about Michael Jordan, Brian Urlacher, Scott Stevens...
And sure maybe they can suit up for the Wizards and drop 25 points but they're not the Michael Jordan of old. Or anywhere close. And maybe a younger, less legendary player can outplay him now. That's ok.
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