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Marty vs Cory Part II (Mod Warning Post 1)

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I never said Marty sucks in this thread. I said he isn't good enough to be a starting goaltender on this team. He could be a very good backup. Hey billingtons ghost you're probably older than me. Can you honesty say the Marty of now is as good as the one you grew up with? I'm saying not even close. Test my memory if you like.
 
Bleedred said:
I never said Marty sucks in this thread. I said he isn't good enough to be a starting goaltender on this team. He could be a very good backup. Hey billingtons ghost you're probably older than me. Can you honesty say the Marty of now is as good as the one you grew up with? I'm saying not even close. Test my memory if you like.
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Is Jagr as good as the Jagr you grew up with?
 
Hell no. Neither of them are.

Would Scott Stevens have still been good had he played until 2007? Probably not. Would Niedermayer be any good if he was still playing today? Maybe not.

I don't see why I'm getting jumped on for saying Cory is better than Marty. In fact, all but about 3 people on here are saying he is. It's the truth. If you can't accept that, I'm sorry. I wish Marty could play forever, but he can't.

And notice how when using these stats I'm not comparing Marty's save percentage to other goalies around the league, just to the other goalie on our team, who has played in just about as many games as him.
 
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I didn't say Marty sucks, I didn't say Marty needs to retire (Though he should after this season) hell, I haven't been going around here preaching for 3 years now that Marty is a below average goaltender, unlike a few others. I was fighting to the death with those posters that he wasn't.

I just said he's not the best goaltender on the team anymore. For the FIRST time in his long career, he isn't the best goaltender on the team. There really is no shame in that. He's 41 years old. Most goalies/players don't even play to this age. Hasek only did because he had WAY less NHL wear and tear on him than almost any goalie. Eddie Belfour his last couple years made the Marty of now look as good as ever. Padtrick Roy was running out of gas in his late 30s and a big reason why the Avs got burned in the playoffs in his last two years.
 
And Marty at age 37 where Elias is now, was still a Vezina candidate and won the Jennings Trophy. Led the league in shutouts that year and wins. Also played 77 games that season which is quite an accomplishment for a goaltender of any age, let alone age 37. That's almost impossible. Almost tied the record for most wins in a season in which he set himself 3 years before. Was still IMO the best goalie in the world at that time.

Marty was probably better at what he did at 37 than Elias is at what he is doing now at 37. Give it another year or two. I'm sure we'll find in the not so distant future that Elias will be slowing down considerably.

Jagr was the best player in the world for a very long time. He's a good player now, but not elite anymore. Pretty good for a 41 year old and Marty is pretty good for a 41 year old goalie as well.
 
JimEIV said:
And all 3 are the best players on the team...so go figure.
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CS is second in the league in gaa and 6th right now in save%. He leads the entire NHL in both of those stats over the last three years. There is not one devil in the top thirty of any offensive statistical area in the nhl with the exception of jagr who is #20 in +/-
CS is the teams best player right now.
 
The only stat Marty leads Cory in right now is wins. And that's pretty understandable considering the difference in goal support between the two is over 1 more goal per game scored with Marty in net, which is an even bigger and more drastic difference than the 0.50 goals less per game that Cory allows.

If you asked me who was better at the end of November, I would have said Marty for sure. I did say Marty actually. He hasn't been very good since Christmas though. Cory has him beat in the wins category since then.
 
Bleedred said:
I never said Marty sucks in this thread. I said he isn't good enough to be a starting goaltender on this team. He could be a very good backup. Hey billingtons ghost you're probably older than me. Can you honesty say the Marty of now is as good as the one you grew up with? I'm saying not even close. Test my memory if you like.
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No, you're right - he hasn't been the best goaltender in the league for at least 4 or 5 years. And the defense in front of him hasn't been as good either.

That said - I still think even at his advanced age, we are spoiled in watching a goaltender who can still be a gamechanger, and who given a chance two years back almost brought us a cup.

However, I think the bolded section above is really at the nut of where our opinions clash. I think you are spot on in most of the things you say, but I think (again, just my opinion) that you are selling our goaltender short... and particularly when you qualify the statement with "for this team" because I don't think the team in front of him deserves the kind of goaltending it gets from either Marty or Cory.

And I think that last part we can probably agree on too...
 
All Bleedred is saying is that Shneider is better then Marty and should play the majority of games.

I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Whether or not this team "deserves" either goalie is irrelevant.
 
Bleedred said:
I never said Marty sucks in this thread. I said he isn't good enough to be a starting goaltender on this team. He could be a very good backup. Hey billingtons ghost you're probably older than me. Can you honesty say the Marty of now is as good as the one you grew up with? I'm saying not even close. Test my memory if you like.
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Marty is good enough to be the starting goalie on this team. Only thing is we have a league leading 27 year old Schneider playing out of his mind. That doesn't diminish Marty's skills, if we removed Schneider then Marty would be a very, very capable option to carry the team. People act like Marty suddenly sucks out of nowhere.
 
Johnyrocket said:
Marty is good enough to be the starting goalie on this team. Only thing is we have a league leading 27 year old Schneider playing out of his mind. That doesn't diminish Marty's skills, if we removed Schneider then Marty would be a very, very capable option to carry the team. People act like Marty suddenly sucks out of nowhere.
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Thus he's not good enough to be the starter. Maybe it's the wording that is bothersome, but that is reality.
 
jester77 said:
CS is second in the league in gaa and 6th right now in save%. He leads the entire NHL in both of those stats over the last three years. There is not one devil in the top thirty of any offensive statistical area in the nhl with the exception of jagr who is #20 in +/-
CS is the teams best player right now.
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CS is the best player on this team
 
If Schneider was not on this roster and we were still stuck with Marty and Hedberg or Marty and some random backup then we'd probably be hanging out with Panthers and Sabres in the caboose of the East. I doubt we'd be anywhere near a playoff spot. Marty cannot carry a team anymore. This isn't 2007.
 
Benedict Parisechuk said:
If Schneider was not on this roster and we were still stuck with Marty and Hedberg or Marty and some random backup then we'd probably be hanging out with Panthers and Sabres in the caboose of the East. I doubt we'd be anywhere near a playoff spot. Marty cannot carry a team anymore. This isn't 2007.
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LOL, no we would not! We would probably be in the same place. Cory's stats are shiny, but his win record has been abysmal, hence this thread and the intense debate.

You guys gotta chill with this Marty is garbage now stuff. He's been pretty good for the most part, about as good as you could ask for a goalie in this situation to be. Go ahead and be team Cory, thats fine, but don't crap on Marty and what he's done for this team this season.

Like I said before, put Marty/Cory on a team like the Pens or Blackhawks and they would probably both be top 5 in wins in the league. Our goalies, BOTH OF THEM, have been really good for us this year so far.

We need to stop with this "If you like X, then Y must suck" stuff. Its driving us insane. Marty could be a starter on probably half the teams in the league, lets not disrespect the guy. We have 2 starters, thats why this thread exists. 2 starters!
 
I don't really think Marty has been good since November. His play has went downhill since Burns almost took off his head in San Jose. It came back up for a little while in December, but he hasn't been that consistent since. Has had good games since, the CBJ home game, Penguins, Canadiens, Senators, shutout against the Lightning, and a decent game against the Rangers in December. There's also been a few stinkers in there like the CBJ road game, Chicago, Phoenix.

If Hedberg was still here, Marty probably would have played almost 50% more of the games he's already played in. He probably would have played in all the non back to backs. Probably would have played 35+ already.

I also wouldn't have been surprised if the annual ''Marty needs to be benched, Hedberg should start more games'' thread had been started by now. Even with how awful Hedberg was last season.
 
Bleedred said:
I don't really think Marty has been good since November. His play has went downhill since Burns almost took off his head in San Jose. It came back up for a little while in December, but he hasn't been that consistent since. Has had good games since, the CBJ home game, Penguins, Canadiens, Senators, shutout against the Lightning, and a decent game against the Rangers in December. There's also been a few stinkers in there like the CBJ road game, Chicago, Phoenix.

If Hedberg was still here, Marty probably would have played almost 50% more of the games he's already played in. He probably would have played in all the non back to backs. Probably would have played 35+ already.

I also wouldn't have been surprised if the annual ''Marty needs to be benched, Hedberg should start more games'' thread had been started by now. Even with how awful Hedberg was last season.
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Again both goalies sucked against Chicago.

Basically thats enough good games to be the back up on the team, which even Pete seems to realize is what is going on and is doing.
 
Bleedred said:
I don't really think Marty has been good since November. His play has went downhill since Burns almost took off his head in San Jose. It came back up for a little while in December, but he hasn't been that consistent since. Has had good games since, the CBJ home game, Penguins, Canadiens, Senators, shutout against the Lightning, and a decent game against the Rangers in December. There's also been a few stinkers in there like the CBJ road game, Chicago, Phoenix.
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He's kinda slumping now but this will turn around. We need to stop acting like he's been bad all season. 13 wins isn't by random. He could probably have as much as 18 or even 20 if this team didn't crap the bed and blow so many leads so many times. But he is slumping now, it seems more extended because he hasn't been playing as much.
 
Emperoreddy said:
Again both goalies sucked against Chicago.

Basically thats enough good games to be the back up on the team, which even Pete seems to realize is what is going on and is doing.
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I think the coaching staff has realized that we have to roll with Cory now. Which is why I don't understand how people can get mad at me for saying Cory is the better goaltender. The coaching staff seems to agree now, and Cory has vastly outplayed Marty in every category since Christmas. Including wins.

Marty has been letting in a lot of weak goals recently. 2 in Phoenix, 1 in Montreal (though good in that game overall) 1 against Philly last week too.
 
Johnyrocket said:
LOL, no we would not! We would probably be in the same place. Cory's stats are shiny, but his win record has been abysmal, hence this thread and the intense debate.
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That's not the way it works.

If you put an average starter in Cory's place, given the same goal support, their record would be substantially worse than Cory's. And we'd be nowhere near a playoff spot.

Cory has had to be stellar just to have a .500 record. He's gotten 2gpg of support FFS.

Most goalies would have a well below .500 record with 2gpg goal support.

Too many people are not nearly appreciative enough of what a great player we have in Cory here.

Instead we get this "Team Marty/Cory" BS. People should just be Devils fan and be thankful for Cory...and pray to the hockey gods he re-signs with us.

Marty is the franchise GOAT and without him we might not even be here. But he's an average starter and we are not a playoff caliber team with average goaltending, our forwards suck too much. We need Cory to be a wall to make the playoffs, and so far he's kept up his end of the bargain. In fact he's been even better than I'd hoped, and I had high expectations.

Lou trading for Cory was a gem of move.

Why can't we stop all this nonsense and just be happy we were blessed to have the great Marty in the past, and the very very good Cory now?
 
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