Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
Correct, but that's diffucult to swallow for most. Its just difficult for a fan to accept this.
Same arguments as always, people will always come up with some arguments to feel good about it.
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Same arguments as always, people will always come up with some arguments to feel good about it.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
It's not correct. The 'win now' mentality has been here since the trade deadline of 2012 (earlier if you date back to the Mike Richards trade). As such, you have to include the end results of all the moves made in relation, not just cherry pick two deals.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
Back then the Kings were trading for players with contracts to get better. Now they just throw everything into the mix to win.
damacles1156
Registered User
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The Golden Age of Kings hockey over the last Four years. Enough said. Lombardi makes mistake sure he does. But all that means is, he is human.
So are 29 other GM's.
So are 29 other GM's.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Since they trade for Carter in 2012 LA has done five major deals. One was the Bernier deal, another was the McNabb deal (basically all picks and prospects at the time) and the other three were for Regehr, Gaborik and Sekera. All were UFA's to be coming to LA.
The all in mindset began well before Sekera or Lucic.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
All I ever saw Jones as was a capable backup. Have no clue how he'll perform as a starter behind San Jose's defense, but I just don't see him as being good enough to work miracles in turning the Sharks into a playoff team.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
You disagree just for the sake of it.
With Carter you traded for a close to elite player signed till eternity. Regehr (though 2 seconds kinda steep) and Gaborik were solid deals involving picks.
Not comparable with 16 games of Sekera and one year Lucic for two 1st rounders ++.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I'm disagreeing because I don't agree. When someone disagrees with you it means they have a different point of view, not that they are just arguing.
They are comparable if you look at them at the time they are made.
Gaborik was acquired as a UFA to be, so was Sekera, so was Regehr.
The only difference between Sekera and Gaborik and Regehr is that Sekera declined to resign with us. Gaborik and Regehr did. At the time of the trade, no one knew if they would resign with us and they could easily have gone UFA as well. Likely the fact LA made serious playoff pushes the year they acquired Gaborik and Regehr versus the non-playoff year of Sekera played a big part in his decision to leave. Or maybe he just wanted the money since he signed in Edmonton. Who knows. Point is all three were acquired as UFA's for futures. That is the all in mentality you are complaining about. The only reason its "only 16 games of Sekera" is because he chose to leave while Regehr and Gaborik didn't. That's a fall out after the deal and not part of the deal itself. DL took a shot at signing him and failed. Could have happened in every case and frankly the fact LA got Geborik and Regehr to re-up without testing the market is bucking the trend of rentals.
And yes, Gaborik and Regehr "were solid deals involving picks." So was Sekera.
if anything is not comparable it's the Lucic deal since we get him for the full year instead of just the stretch run and the playoffs. That's an extra 50-60 games.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
The point is with Regehr/Gaborik you gave up significantly less if they hadnt resigned. Thats different. I was even willing to accept Sekera, but after Lucic I couldnt take it anymore. Now he is just desperate. Heck, with a deadline deal you at least know/hope you have healthy roster going into the playoffs.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I guess that then becomes a matter of opinion. Sekera cost us a 1st and McKeown. Regehr cost us two 2nds. Gaborik cost us a 2nd and a 3rd. Gaborik is the cheapest for sure but two 2nds versus a 1st and McKowen isn't a big difference if that 1st is bottom third of the order. We'll obviously have to wait and see where the chips fall. I don't know if I'd say we gave up significantly more for Sekera, but again that depends on where that 1st ends up at and I also am not a fan of McKeown.
As for Lucic, I didn't like the deal at the time and still don't but I also understand we'd have to give up more considering we get him for a full year and the Bruins are eating about 50% of his cap hit next year. That 50% likely cost us a fair chunk of the price.
The Night King
Registered User
How is Lombardi desperate for getting Lucic? We should know he doesn't make deals out of desperation. Plus he's wanted Lucic for years.
Reclamation Project
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deeshamrock
Registered User
Prior to last year, I'd agree that DL was more cautious regarding trading , but the Sekara deal was a desperation deal, a heart over head transaction. The Kings were not a playoff team last year, no miracle was going to happen by trading a 1st round pick for a rental. (Sekera was not signing with the Kings, )
And what he gave up for Lucic is worse, that he 'always wanted him' speaks to another heart over head matter. I've probably seen more of Lucic via living on the East Coast and being a hockey addict, getting my fix every night, than most. Aside from being one of the dirtiest players in the league and a slimy SOB who has little ethics, his play has declined , and he's another rental, DL is banking on him being a difference maker since he can't afford to sign him next year. The B'sn began shopping him last winter when he wouldn't budge on the 8 yr term (in the 6 to 7M range per) , the LTC, his home run contract. DL can't give another player that old (28) an 8y r deal, not with having 5 other players in their 30's (counting what Kopi gets) on LTC's. Plus TT and TP are up the following year and both wll need LTC's.
That's desperate and it's him seeing the window that opened in 2010/2011 season closing. Trading youth and top draft picks for the 'quick fix' rarely works. Swinging for the fences gets you more strike outs than home runs. And why when you have DB signed to almost 6M, being overpaid on the 3rd line, a power forward, phsycial, gritty, do you go out and spend over 3M to get Lucic? IF Sutter's has an averion to playing Brown on the first ine , then Pearson would have been a better fit on that line and Weal could have tried he 2nd line . That 3M they wasted on Lucic could have gotten them a good 3rd line center perhaps or stayed in the bank.
And if the Kings are treading quicksand again next Feb, and DL gives up another player and 1st rounder to get that 'difference maker' will you still think he's not acting desperate?
Man, I couldn't disagree more with this post in so many respects.
Just perusing the boards tonight, don't really have time to refute each and every point because I've got a deadline I have to meet, but I counted up to six disagreements just in the first sentence.
Gotta get back to work.
deeshamrock
Registered User
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KingPuckChoo
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why don't you go further back? trading for Gretzky was win now too
i'm talking about the trades AFTER 2014 perhaps?
Sekera was win now
Lucic is win now
i actually prefer the Lucic deal because we are likely getting more than 2 weeks of hockey out of this deal
but when you factor in the cost of the last trade (Sekera), it's a little risky bordering irresponsible to trade away two first round picks and two prospects for 2 weeks of sekera and 1 year of Lucic
that's all i'm saying
if we didn't do the Sekera deal, the Lucic deal would have been a good deal and the deals aren't mutually exclusive, because both trades drain the prospect pool
the Lucic deal is very BALLZY
and i freakin' love Lucic, i just hope we end up signing him for a few years, or you guys should just block me from this site because if Lucic hits Free Agency feces will no longer be figurative around here!!
KingPuckChoo
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why can't we?
why can't we look at the deals during the season where we were ousted before the playoffs even began!
i think it's a very fair timeline, i'd argue it's a new era
is it not? playoff streak is over, many key faces from our two cups are gone (i.e. richards, stoll, williams)
you can look at 2012 and 2014 all you want and just be satisfied with that
or
you can look at 2014, 2015, 2016 etc... and find ways to come back to what made the Kings great to begin with!
this isn't cherry picking, during the collapse we've made a god awful trade that wasn't justified but it was very emotional; DL panicked and traded for Sekera
he's seeing the current situation (Richards, Stoll, Voynov, Williams, Cap Space) he had to do something! he got Lucic
1 panic move is very acceptable
2 back to back panic moves and now you're starting to hurt the team
i agree he is human though, i'm just the guy watching the plane crash occur before my eyes and i can't help but to tear a little
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
How is the 'win now' mentality a new era when we were during win now trades well before Sekera and Lucic? What was the era before Sekera?
And why have we 'collapsed'? Because we missed the playoffs? Did the 1996 Devils collapse? They won two cups after that with largely the same core that won the 1995 cup and our core is still plenty young enough to be around and elite for another several years. Hence the Lucic trade.
DL took a chance believing that his team was peaking late (just had a eight game winning streak at the time of the Sekera deal and were in a playoff spot) like they did the past three years. Let's not forget this team had home ice once or twice in the three playoffs from 2012 to 2014, so it's not like we had a kickass regular season team in the past. If DL felt the team was gearing up for a playoff run again, I'd trust him. He obviously was right to buy at the deadline the previous three years and he's the one in the locker room and behind the scenes, not you or I.
On the subject of Jones. Wish him the best, just a little concerned that with what Wilson gave up for him and the size of the contract. Jones has some high expectations to live up to.
Lucic: I don't see this as a desperation move, more a target of opportunity. The Kings have needed another winger for the first line for over a year. Lucic brings the size and snarl that is Kings hockey. As far as being a rental, I see Lombardi doing everything he can to resign Lucic. There are multiple ways for Lombardi to find the cap space to sign Lucic going forward.
Pearson may have worked well there as others have mentioned, but then I don't see Sutter playing Pearson on the top line. Pearson's only seen about 13min of ice time per game under Sutter.
The cost?
-Backup goalie
-Mid first round pick where it was clear by Lombardi's comments, Zacha was his target and he wasn't as excited about what else was out there. I'm fine with Lombardi trading that pick for a player that will play on the first line next year.
-Defensive prospect that hasn't put it together in the defensive end and was probably not going to get a legitimate shot on the Kings roster, despite being offensively gifted. Was also a right handed prospect buried behind Doughty/Voynov.
If Lucic is able to fill the position and get the first line producing it will go a long way to fixing one of the major problems the Kings had last year.
The first time Lucic pile drives Perry's face into the ice, the trade will be more then worth it.
Lucic: I don't see this as a desperation move, more a target of opportunity. The Kings have needed another winger for the first line for over a year. Lucic brings the size and snarl that is Kings hockey. As far as being a rental, I see Lombardi doing everything he can to resign Lucic. There are multiple ways for Lombardi to find the cap space to sign Lucic going forward.
Pearson may have worked well there as others have mentioned, but then I don't see Sutter playing Pearson on the top line. Pearson's only seen about 13min of ice time per game under Sutter.
The cost?
-Backup goalie
-Mid first round pick where it was clear by Lombardi's comments, Zacha was his target and he wasn't as excited about what else was out there. I'm fine with Lombardi trading that pick for a player that will play on the first line next year.
-Defensive prospect that hasn't put it together in the defensive end and was probably not going to get a legitimate shot on the Kings roster, despite being offensively gifted. Was also a right handed prospect buried behind Doughty/Voynov.
If Lucic is able to fill the position and get the first line producing it will go a long way to fixing one of the major problems the Kings had last year.
The first time Lucic pile drives Perry's face into the ice, the trade will be more then worth it.
You should know me better than that RP from the OT thread, you know I can't handle garbage like that and I haven't eaten garbage like that since I was about your age.
Reclamation Project
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Okay here goes for that horrid first sentence of yours, and I quote:
"Prior to last year, I'd agree that DL was more cautious regarding trading , but the Sekara deal was a desperation deal (wrong), a heart over head transaction(wrong). The Kings were not a playoff team last year(hindsight), no miracle was going to happen by trading a 1st round pick for a rental(hyperbole). (Sekera was not signing with the Kings, )(hindsight)"
Okay I was wrong. There were not six disagreements in that first sentence, there were only five. My bad.
Let's take a look at the next few sentences:
And what he gave up for Lucic is worse, that he 'always wanted him' speaks to another heart over head matter. I've probably seen more of Lucic via living on the East Coast and being a hockey addict, getting my fix every night, than most. Aside from being one of the dirtiest players in the league (supposition)and a slimy SOB (hyperbole)who has little ethics (unproven claim), his play has declined (exaggeration), and he's another rental (supposition), DL is banking on him being a difference maker since he can't afford to sign him next year.
I think a lot of the nastiness you show towards Lucic is because you are a Flyer fan and Lucic was a Bruin. I don't see any compliments thrown at the guy, just a bunch of negativity. On the one hand, you are saying all this **** about Lucic and then you kind of undermine your whole argument when you characterize him as a "rental."
I really can't go on. Still have that ****ing deadline staring me in the face. But you get my point.
That's the joke Ron!
I get it.
Suffice it to say this wasn't the best day in my life I've ever had but even if it was the "greatest of all greatest days" in my life I would still sour-grape Dee on that post. My head was spinning after just reading the first two paragraphs!
The Night King
Registered User
Nope, I'm not buying that either deals were desperation moves by DL. Kingsfan mentions this above but the Kings were surging at the time he traded for Sekera. If anything, it would've been a desperation move had he done this while the team was still playing like crap... thinking he could spark them by acquiring one of the top players available. But since they actually looked good at the time, it would've been dumb for him to just say "we're not making the playoffs". We missed by two points FFS.
And i agree a bit with Ron, I believe there's a little bias in your strong dislike for Lucic. I think this is the type of player you hate to play against but love to have on your team. I've heard a lot of good things from bruins fans about Looch so he's probably not as horrible as you say he is. Top six looks stacked. Kings probably didn't have many options with what to do with jones. Picks and prospects don't always pan out.
As far as your belief that Lombardi thinks the window is closing, I'd say it's more about not wasting any season while this core is intact.
