Player Discussion Marner

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
15,115
6,788
@francis246 and @notbias

not ignoring - and thank you for a straight answer ... initial few were non-committal

glad to see the +5 defensive liability is getting less ice time that the +1 defensive stalwart

seems everyone is thinking historically when the question I asked related to 6 games only...

now i remember why I don't post often ...

cheers all

Why doesn’t he deserve those minutes? Who’sgoing to replace him? He might not be worth $11 million, but given the money spent on him, Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews, he’s still the best option. The next highest-paid forwards after the core four are at $3.7 million and $2.5 million; huge drop-off.

Marner’s a good player, just overpaid for the last five years. He was paid to be a difference-maker like Matthews, McDavid, or Kane, but it never happened. Instead, he's closer to Rantanen and Aho, and I'd argue below them. Especially when you factor in Marner’s lack of size, his position as a winger, limited goal-scoring, he plays with a superstar center, and his significant lack of playoff success.

It’s fine to give him big minutes, not because he doesn’t deserve them, but because of the gap between the core four and the rest of the forwards.

Some players don’t put their best effort into regular-season games. Marner’s not one of them. But some treat the playoffs like life or death. Marner’s not one of them either. This is year 5 or 6 of Marner being dreadful in the playoffs and then season comes around and hes working his butt off in much more space while opposition are coasting, and certain posters are back referring to him as the Leafs best player.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me five-eight times, shame on me. At some point, the pattern speaks for itself, and yet every year people seem ready to forget.

Marners poor playoff performance has been a topic since 2018. Let that sink in. Babcock did interviews on Marner needing to dig in that year, there are articles with the interviews.
 
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francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
14,264
17,660
@francis246 and @notbias

me doth think you protest too much

all i did was ask a simple question

and what "all the defensive stats" are the ones that don't agree with me?

nonsense? lol ... a simple question on a message board sure seems to have some folks worked up

enjoy the game this evening ...

No one is worked up. But you asked a question (granted I think it was a rediculous, not simple question at all) didn’t like the answer and got mad at our response?

Then said, “I asked a simple question.” Well the question isn’t simple. There are many variables especially with a small sample size that will inflate the numbers between the two this early into the season. You seem to completely ignore that and persist with wanting a black or white explanation when there isn’t one to the question you asked.
 
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thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
41,569
11,928
Why doesn’t he deserve those minutes? Who’sgoing to replace him? He might not be worth $11 million, but given the money spent on him, Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews, he’s still the best option. The next highest-paid forwards after the core four are at $3.7 million and $2.5 million; huge drop-off.

Marner’s a good player, just overpaid for the last five years. He was paid to be a difference-maker like Matthews, McDavid, or Kane, but it never happened. Instead, he's closer to Rantanen and Aho, and I'd argue below them. Especially when you factor in Marner’s lack of size, his position as a winger, limited goal-scoring, his reliance on a superstar center, and his significant lack of playoff success.

It’s fine to give him big minutes, not because he doesn’t deserve them, but because of the gap between the core four and the rest of the forwards.

Some players don’t put their best effort into regular-season games. Marner’s not one of them. But some treat the playoffs like life or death. Marner’s not one of them either. This is year 5 or 6 of Marner being dreadful in the playoffs and then season comes around and hes working his butt off in much more space while opposition are coasting, and certain posters are back referring to him as the Leafs best player.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me five times, shame on me. At some point, the pattern speaks for itself, and yet every year people seem ready to forget.

Marners poor playoff performance has been a topic since 2018. Let that sink in. Babcock did interviews on Marner needing to dig in that year, there are articles with the interviews.

The only acceptable response to these people is along the lines of. MM is the best player on the Leafs, one of the best in the world all situations. He deserves AM money and we are very lucky to have him. He is like Gretzky. His playoff performances are often misjudged because the fans don't grasp his brilliance or how much better he makes AM.

Essentially. Don't believe your lying eyes people.
 

Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
9,655
9,014
All the defensive stats don't agree with you.

His REL 5v5 defensive stats in the playoffs over the last 3 seasons are pretty incredible:

Ranking out of the 73 forwards with at least 300 minutes played and 12+ 5v5 minutes a game:

Marner's ranking:

Shots against/60 REL: 6th out of 73 (3rd among wingers)
xGA/60 REL: 7th out of 73 (2nd among wingers)
Goals Against/60 REL: 5th out of 73 (1st among wingers)

How does this help him overall?

Overall effectiveness:
Shot differential REL: 16th out of 73 (8th among wingers)
xGA/60 REL: 12th out of 73 (6th among wingers)
Goal differential REL: 2nd out of 73 (Just behind McDavid, 1st among wingers)

Getting good goaltending/fixing the powerplay are the keys to this years run and, yes, Marner needs to be a part of that PP reinvention. Marner is also one of the best defensive playoff wingers in the league and one of the overall most effective 5v5 playoff players too. The fact he was at the top of all those stats relative teammates charts just underlines that there was a ton of garbage at the bottom of the charts dragging the team down 5v5 (where most of the minutes are played). I mean, if the Leafs 5v5 goal differential is 49.70% the last 3 years and Marner is rocking a 64.20%, who the hell is getting caved in on the other end and why is no one talking about them?
 
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freshwind

Registered User
Mar 23, 2002
798
474
No one is worked up. But you asked a question (granted I think it was a rediculous, not simple question at all) didn’t like the answer and got mad at our response?

Then said, “I asked a simple question.” Well the question isn’t simple. There are many variables especially with a small sample size that will inflate the numbers between the two this early into the season. You seem to completely ignore that and persist with wanting a black or white explanation when there isn’t one to the question you asked.
ridiculous?
LOL
who got mad???

the question is simple, but for you folks at the temple of magic mitchy no else ever understands the nuances that only you enlightened folks understand

it is always context or variables when someone asks a SIMPLE question

have a good evening, i think i am done with this conversation ...

actually, there is no conversation, easier for you folks to use passive aggressive language to try to make a point when you have still not answered the question ...

cheers
 
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Cap'n Flavour

Registered User
Mar 8, 2004
5,020
1,762
Flavour Country
Marner is also one of the best defensive playoff wingers in the league and one of the overall most effective 5v5 playoff players too. The fact he was at the top of all those stats relative teammates charts just underlines that there was a ton of garbage at the bottom of the charts dragging the team down 5v5 (where most of the minutes are played). I mean, if the Leafs 5v5 goal differential is 49.70% the last 3 years and Marner is rocking a 64.20%, who the hell is getting caved in on the other end and why is no one talking about them?
We know our bottom 6 sucks and that's what happens when you dump wheelbarrows of cash on 4 forwards, three of whom struggle to score in the playoffs.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
14,264
17,660
ridiculous?
LOL
who got mad???

the question is simple, but for you folks at the temple of magic mitchy no else ever understands the nuances that only you enlightened folks understand

it is always context or variables when someone asks a SIMPLE question

have a good evening, i think i am done with this conversation ...

actually, there is no conversation, easier for you folks to use passive aggressive language to try to make a point when you have still not answered the question ...

cheers

As I’ve stated multiple times YES!

The funniest part is that people who don’t want Mitch completely agree with me in this situation. And have quoted you saying the exact same thing as me, so why aren’t you going after them?

There’s no passive aggressiveness here. All I said is your question isn’t simple.(which it isn’t) You’re the one who’s saying shit about magic temple of Marner LOL. That’s all yall resort to man. Childish insults as if that’s going to hurt my feelings lol. I’ve stated on here many times I work with kids for a living. I’ve heard and been called every insult imaginable. It has no effect on me especially cause I don’t really care for Marner like that. I just think that all the core should shoulder the blame equally.
 

LeafEgo

Registered User
Oct 8, 2021
976
848
Nylander is a great player, and he has been hot and shooting 25% to start the year, but he's certainly not "pulling far, far away from Marner in the ways of importance or relevance". That's ridiculous. Marner has been spectacular. One of the best players on the ice night after night, and Berube seems to love him. Hopefully our management isn't stupid, and signs him ASAP. It's awesome to have both.
This caught my eye as I had thought that normal Willy would have bagged more goals so far given the shots I have seen him take.

Just looking it up now, shooting percentage doesn't include shots that missed the net. So if a shot misses the intended target an inch one way it counts in the percentage, and an inch the other way it doesn't.

Am I missing something? Because it's possible he has an unusually low conversion rate this season, in the event he has missed numerous attempts on the wrong side of the bar.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
14,264
17,660
yes, but not his fault ... you have to take it in context and understand the nuances ... i'm sure dekes or one of the other marnerites will be along shortly explain

You’re still crying?!

you don’t understand basic math LMAO. There’s nothing nuance about it. You don’t play on the PK you’re gonna have less ice time.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
76,118
42,357
Matthews and Knies were also -3. No one looked good tonight. Knies was maybe the best player.
Surprisingly Timmins was +2.

Predictable though that this will all be Marners fault.

It looks really bad on you when you try so hard to make Marner look bad when our $13.5M captain looked even worse tn.
Some just have a really poor understanding of what goes on.
 
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freshwind

Registered User
Mar 23, 2002
798
474
You’re still crying?!

you don’t understand basic math LMAO. There’s nothing nuance about it. You don’t play on the PK you’re gonna have less ice time.
wtf are you talking about???

who's still crying - sounds like you are

grow up pal

explain yourself and quit acting like a child ... typical ..please put me on ignore if it hurts that bad lol
 
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ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
76,118
42,357
Pretty sure one of the goals Marner and Knies had just stepped on the ice. It wasn’t even a play that was their fault. Just broken play and our goalie was Swiss cheese tonight.
Those tend to balance out over the season.
He was terrible tonight like everyone else
 
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Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
15,115
6,788
wtf are you talking about???

who's still crying - sounds like you are

grow up pal

explain yourself and quit acting like a child ... typical ..please put me on ignore if it hurts that bad lol
Don't waste your time with @francis246 . He once claimed that the "quit crying bro" comment was between Nylander and Matthews, and his proof was his relative, who supposedly works for the Leafs, told him Keefe had laid into Matthews about the power play right before, with Nylander and Matthews bickering over a set play on the pp during a TV timeout.

I pointed out that the story was impossible since the argument didn't happen during a timeout, and it had been a full period since the last power play.

He walked back his statement. 🤣 I should find it so we can all enjoy his elaborate story.

That's the level of desperation he'll resort to in defending Marner.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
14,264
17,660
Don't waste your time with @francis246 . He once claimed that the "quit crying bro" comment was between Nylander and Matthews, and his proof was his relative, who supposedly works for the Leafs, told him Keefe had laid into Matthews about the power play right before, with Nylander and Matthews bickering over a set play on the pp during a TV timeout.

I pointed out that the story was impossible since the argument didn't happen during a timeout, and it had been a full period since the last power play.

He walked back his statement. 🤣 I should find it so we can all enjoy his elaborate story.

That's the level of desperation he'll resort to in defending Marner.

That’s not what happened and it wasn’t a relative.

You show how pathetic you are after every game lmao. You run in here ready to trash Marner any chance you get. I’m not desperate to defend Marner but I find you to be highly irrational.
 
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ZEBROA

Registered User
Dec 21, 2017
3,802
2,373
Feel like watching a Marner themed "the days of our lifes" you can watch the first two episodes and jump in at episode 666 , and still not miss a singel thing about the plot.
 

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