Player Discussion Marner

[Gary Nylund]

I know he has become now the new whipping boy for some of you
By the end of the year he'll prove again why he's the most complete player in this team

Even when he's not putting up points, he can contribute other ways. He has become one of our best PK

Year in year out he's been consistently hitting 90 points when he played more than 70 games
While other stars in our team fluctuate, his numbers remain consistent

But hey, lets jump on him for one bad playoffs... But the fact the has the most points in single playsoffs year 14 points we are not going to talk about

He makes the most mistakes because he also plays in the most critical situations out of all the top 3.

People love to spout these cliches with Marner. Most complete player you say, engine of the team is another one. Regular season it even seems like he's worthy of this most of the time but playoffs are another story.

Also, the idea that people are "jumping on him for one bad playoffs" is pretty funny.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Gary just hates the guy lol

 

[ULF_55]

marner is a playmaker set-up guy.

From the beginning of Matthews career marner has by a huge margin the most helpers earned in the playoffs. Nylander would likely be leading G/GP without marner playing with Matthews.

 

[HellasLEAF]

For me would be simple. Re-sign him obviously, during the season at some point. You do not let assets like him walk for nothing (if can be helped). Refuse any NMC or NTC. Or if push comes to shove, you get them but at 10-20 teams. Still provides an out. Cannot adopt Dubas failed policies. And then well, if the right trade comes along, you take it.

 

[stickty111]

People love to spout these cliches with Marner. Most complete player you say, engine of the team is another one. Regular season it even seems like he's worthy of this most of the time but playoffs are another story.

Also, the idea that people are "jumping on him for one bad playoffs" is pretty funny.

It's also kind of annoying watching players come and defend him. As if he's the only who has been criticized in this city. When Nylander played terribly after signing during his hold out, I didn't see people defending him. It's at the point when you get suspicious that his group is calling those people to show love to Marner.

To your last point, in fairness that playoffs happened 200 years ago just like delay of game penalties. Maybe we aren't passing the tests.

 

[stickty111]

marner is a playmaker set-up guy.

From the beginning of Matthews career marner has by a huge margin the most helpers earned in the playoffs. Nylander would likely be leading G/GP without marner playing with Matthews.

View attachment 915599

Nobody respects his shot. Take away his space and he'll wilt. There was a time that people said same thing about Kadri's shot, and yes they were right, but what Kadri do? He adapted and went to the net, and he became a 30 goal player, and now is a consistent 25+ scorer.

 

[thusk]

Matthews is better away from Marner apparently. The special teams was the failure of the coaching staff.

No excuses though.


Nylander was good

He was lazy vs tampa

Vs florida even if he was playing half of time against florida bottom 6,

Nylander/Jt line vs florida 3rd... a matchup who should be 100% leafs advantage... what did he really do to take advantage of this matchup? Get a lucky bounce in front of the net or taking a peripheric low angle shot?

 

[myleafs]

Again. Goals and points that's all some people see. They simply do not understand the defensive game. Fascinating how one dimensional some of you watch and understand the game.

These posts are sooooo boring. You sound a lot like the other fella who likes to call everyone stupid. Posters here trying their hardest to have a normal conversation with you but you are having none of it. Ignore list you go.

 

[thusk]

Nobody respects his shot. Take away his space and he'll wilt. There was a time that people said same thing about Kadri's shot, and yes they were right, but what Kadri do? He adapted and went to the net, and he became a 30 goal player, and now is a consistent 25+ scorer.

I think Marner hesitate just too much to shoot it, always searching for a passing lane but he need to take his shot when he can...

exemple in a 2v1 over 95% of the time he will go for the pass... I think he can just simplify his game and a north-South system could help him for this.

 

[notDatsyuk]

marner is a playmaker set-up guy.

From the beginning of Matthews career marner has by a huge margin the most helpers earned in the playoffs. Nylander would likely be leading G/GP without marner playing with Matthews.

View attachment 915599

The problem is always to figure out how much is due to each player, and stats can give a good idea, but can also be very misleading.

Player A strips an opponent of the puck in his own end, carries it down the ice, draws the goalie, and passes to player B for an empty net tap-in.

Player A has the puck bounce off his skate, player B picks it up, beats the D and snipes the top corner.

Are player A's two assists similar, even if they each count as 1A?

Are player B's two goals similar, even if they each count as 1G?

Considering that JT has a lot fewer assists compared to Willy's goals than Mitch has compared to Matty's, I think Mitch's contributions tend to be more significant than JT's to Willy.

 

[myleafs]

Kucherov signed that deal in 2018, after he put up his first 100pt campaign. His prior seasons were much lower. We don't know what Marner will do this year, but he has had more productive seasons under his belt than Kuch at the time. But add the projected cap growth to the $9.5M, and adjust for lower tax and Marner's number starts with a 12. Given this is right in between Nylander and Matthews, it makes sense. Those two are really the only two comparables that matter.

But it would be nice to see them split up the duo, and have Marner prove his worth on another line. Nylander-Tavares doesn't work, but Nylander played with him all last season. If Marner puts up a big year with him, reward him.

Huh?
2016-18
Marner 61pts,69pts,94pts
Kuch 85pts,100pts, 128pts

 

[thusk]

The problem is always to figure out how much is due to each player, and stats can give a good idea, but can also be very misleading.

Player A strips an opponent of the puck in his own end, carries it down the ice, draws the goalie, and passes to player B for an empty net tap-in.

Player A has the puck bounce off his skate, player B picks it up, beats the D and snipes the top corner.

Are player A's two assists similar, even if they each count as 1A?

Are player B's two goals similar, even if they each count as 1G?

Considering that JT has a lot fewer assists compared to Willy's goals than Mitch has compared to Matty's, I think Mitch's contributions tend to be more significant than JT's to Willy.

Last 3 year at 5v5

65 > 62

 

[Roo]

Huh?
2016-18
Marner 61pts,69pts,94pts
Kuch 85pts,100pts, 128pts

You’re counting his 2018-2019 season. This is after he signed his deal. His 100pt season in 2017-2018 is what I am taking about. He signed his deal right after that one.

And I am not comparing the same time period for Marner, that is pointless. I am comparing with the seasons under his belt as of today, given he can be resigned today.

 

[myleafs]

You’re counting his 2018-2019 season. This is after he signed his deal. His 100pt season in 2017-2018 is what I am taking about. He signed his deal right after that one.

And I am not comparing the same time period for Marner, that is pointless. I am comparing with the seasons under his belt as of today, given he can be resigned today.

You said Marner had much better seasons than Kuch up to that point which he clearly did not.

 

[Roo]

You said Marner had much better seasons than Kuch up to that point which he clearly did not.

More productive seasons, yes, but comparing Kucherov’s seasons up to his contract sign date, and Marner’s seasons to date. You have to look at it this way if you are using the Kuch deal as a proxy for what Marner should make on his next deal.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Last 3 year at 5v5

View attachment 915627

65 > 62

Yes, as usual, if you go back far enough, JT was better than he is now.

Even looking at two years, Mitch 67A to Matty's 64G, while JT had 42 A to Willy's 44G.

Even more extreme if you look at primary assists - Mitch 47 to 64 (73%) to JT 23 to 44 (52%).

(You should be careful - there are some posters here who will jump all over you with hobnailed boots for the mere suggestion that Marner isn't a much better set-up man than JT.)

 

[myleafs]

More productive seasons, yes, but comparing Kucherov’s seasons up to his contract sign date, and Marner’s seasons to date. You have to look at it this way if you are using the Kuch deal as a proxy for what Marner should make on his next deal.

No he did not....not sure what part of that you dont get...Kuch had more points than Marner for every season before that contract.

 

[Roo]

No he did not....not sure what part of that you dont get...Kuch had more points than Marner for every season before that contract.

lol I understand what you are saying.. I’m just telling you that isn’t the comparison I was making.

Kucherov’s 4 seasons leading up to his extension: 65pts, 66pts, 85 pts, 100 pts

Only 1 season at 100pts at the time. Not unreasonable for the Bolts to use that in negotiations, players can regress and many have.

Marner has put up a 94pt, 97pt, 99pt seasons, and was on pace for 100pts last year. 4 seasons there in the 95-100pt range, compared to Kuch’s 1.

Teams pay up more for proven production, and all I am saying is that at this point in his career, Marner is more of a proven producer than Kucherov back then. There are other factors too, like age, term, unrestricted vs restricted free agents, etc. it’s not as simple as saying Marner’s comparable is the $9.5m Aav deal Kucherov signed in 2018 as another poster had suggested. That is my point.

 

[666]

This is a nonsensical comparison to make for a number of reasons, this was already explained to you. Your response was to ramble on about cognitive dissonance.

reject legitimate facts / stats - CHECK
fabricate mis-informational stats - CHECK
exaggerate the emphasis on Marners mistakes - CHECK
bring up topics like Marners family and other non on-ice issues to justify your hate - CHECK
endlessly repeat the same few mis-leading or plain false talking points - CHECK

Looks like we have a winner.

 

[notDatsyuk]

lol I understand what you are saying.. I’m just telling you that isn’t the comparison I was making.

Kucherov’s 4 seasons leading up to his extension: 65pts, 66pts, 85 pts, 100 pts

Only 1 season at 100pts at the time. Not unreasonable for the Bolts to use that in negotiations, players can regress and many have.

Marner has put up a 94pt, 97pt, 99pt seasons, and was on pace for 100pts last year. 4 seasons there in the 95-100pt range, compared to Kuch’s 1.

Teams pay up more for proven production, and all I am saying is that at this point in his career, Marner is more of a proven producer than Kucherov back then. There are other factors too, like age, term, unrestricted vs restricted free agents, etc. it’s not as simple as saying Marner’s comparable is the $9.5m Aav deal Kucherov signed in 2018 as another poster had suggested. That is my point.

So you're comparing Kucherov's numbers up to his first non-entry contract to Marner's numbers leading up to his second?

Marner's numbers leading up to his first big contract (a much better comparison) were (goals-points)19-61, 22-69, and 26-94.

Kucherov's numbers leading up to his first big contract were 30-66, 40-85, and 39-100.

Teams pay more for goals.

Marner's comparable to Kucherov's 2018 $9.5M deal was his 2019 contract, which meant Mitch should have got in the neighbourhood of $8-8.5.

 

[Roo]

So you're comparing Kucherov's numbers up to his first non-entry contract to Marner's numbers leading up to his second?

Marner's numbers leading up to his first big contract (a much better comparison) were (goals-points)19-61, 22-69, and 26-94.

Kucherov's numbers leading up to his first big contract were 30-66, 40-85, and 39-100.

Teams pay more for goals.

Marner's comparable to Kucherov's 2018 $9.5M deal was his 2019 contract, which meant Mitch should have got in the neighbourhood of $8-8.5.

I agree. If you read the prior posts you’ll understand why I was making that comparison.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Don't waste your time @Gary Nylund . Despite it having been explained several times, he either doesnt understand or won't admit that "cognitive dissonance", while a pretty phrase, doesn't mean whan he thinks it means, and its repeated misuse is just making him look foolish.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I agree. If you read the prior posts you’ll understand why I was making that comparison.

I've read, and just reread, the prior posts.

It's still a matter of your using Kucherov's first non-entry contract as a comparable to Marner's second.

 

[Confucius]

It's also kind of annoying watching players come and defend him. As if he's the only who has been criticized in this city. When Nylander played terribly after signing during his hold out, I didn't see people defending him. It's at the point when you get suspicious that his group is calling those people to show love to Marner.

To your last point, in fairness that playoffs happened 200 years ago just like delay of game penalties. Maybe we aren't passing the tests.

 

[thewave]

View attachment 915688

Is that the Mitch Marner power hat?