Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[francis246]

watching this Florida team makes me realllllly see that you can get good players on decent contracts in UFA. anyway, Rad Treliving

Seeing Barclay Goodrow on waivers yesterday showed me, over spending on fringe players is a recipe for disaster.

Florida did not sign any big UFA’s. They made trades and used the waiver wire. Bill Zito’s entire roster is castaways from other teams he bought when their value was low. The only guy he signed I believe was Carter Verhaghe who he signed once Verhaghe left Tampa and Evan Rodrigues. Everyone else was a trade or waiver pick up

 

[Shanwhatplan]

McDavid outpoints Matthews by 30-50+ every season, the +/- being close shows how bad McDavid is on the defensive side.

Did you happen to watch Game 5 last night? If not, better at least check out the highlights!

 

[Shanwhatplan]

More that Matthews is an even strength beast

I've been a Leafs' fan for many many years. I desperately want them to win a Cup! I really like Matthews, he is a great player. But I would take McDavid over Matthews without even having to think about it.

 

[hullsy47]

I've been a Leafs' fan for many many years. I desperately want them to win a Cup! I really like Matthews, he is a great player. But I would take McDavid over Matthews without even having to think about it.

id pay him half the core 5 salary .....then fill in the rest.after watching mcdavid ,i think the leafs have to move on if he asks for any kind of raise ,
we ve all seen enough ,dubas compared his core to mcdavid ,and he was made to look like a donkey

 

[HamiltonNHL]

This core has NEVER been able to get it done in the playoffs! I’m glad that boy wonder was fired last offseason, it’s just too bad Shanahan wasn’t.

He's basically controlled by Pelley. He's effectively fired.

EVERYBODY except those two knew that paying 4 forwards the money they were being paid could not win a Cup! And that is on them, and them alone!

Absolutely true.

Marner is not worth what he’s being paid by at least $2 million, and he’ll be looking for a raise on his next contract. Matthews is already signed, so hopefully he can start playing like the top paid player should, in the playoffs. Nylander has been okay, but nothing that makes you think he can be the difference maker in a playoff run.

He's overpaid 2 AAV during the season. It's 4AAV for playoff hockey.

This team needs a much better balance in how the cap is allocated. Therefore Marner needs to go in order for that to happen, so I am hoping that Tre will be able to move him if for nothing more than the extra cap space that would create.

100%.

It was so refreshing to see Shanahan in that press conference with the look of someone who knows that his time is coming to an end!

The end of the core 4.

Hopefully early July a deal for Marner will be done.

 

[hullsy47]

Did you happen to watch Game 5 last night? If not, better at least check out the highlights!

mcdavid is captain canada .he should be in toronto .start making room this bunch isnt going anywhere
also the oilers were out of a playoff spot and mcdavid and draisatl took ownership
id bet u the leafs were out of a playoff spot ,sadly they may have stayed there
marner looked spent after round 1

 

[ACC1224]

I've been a Leafs' fan for many many years. I desperately want them to win a Cup! I really like Matthews, he is a great player. But I would take McDavid over Matthews without even having to think about it.

McDavid has no comparable in the league, not even close.
I know it's blasphemy but he could be the best of all time.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Florida did not sign any big UFA’s.

Smart.

Loser GMs like Dubas sign UFAs before locking up their core.

Pathetic asset management.

 

[hullsy47]

Smart.

Loser GMs like Dubas sign UFAs before locking up their core.

Pathetic asset management.

no more long term for marner or tavaras .if anyone is woth 21 million today ,im saying this morning ,its mcdavid
treliving is gonna look like a donkey 2 years in a row

 

[francis246]

Smart.

Loser GMs like Dubas sign UFAs before locking up their core.

Pathetic asset management.

We need to rebuild our pick depth in order to be in on players teams want to get rid of. We have a lot of work to do

 

[Suntouchable13]

People are funny. They already got fleeced by Mattehws and Nylander, now they are ok with getting fleeced by Marner for the 2nd time. Unreal.

 

[rumman]

Seeing Barclay Goodrow on waivers yesterday showed me, over spending on fringe players is a recipe for disaster.

Florida did not sign any big UFA’s. They made trades and used the waiver wire. Bill Zito’s entire roster is castaways from other teams he bought when their value was low. The only guy he signed I believe was Carter Verhaghe who he signed once Verhaghe left Tampa and Evan Rodrigues. Everyone else was a trade or waiver pick up

That’s a impressive accumulation of misfit toys, they’ve done a incredible job of building a great team………

 

[Gary Nylund]

McDavid has no comparable in the league, not even close.
I know it's blasphemy but he could be the best of all time.

It's not blasphemy, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Hyperbole is probably a better word. Extreme, over the top hyperbole.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

People are funny. They already got fleeced by Mattehws and Nylander, now they are ok with getting fleeced by Marner for the 2nd time. Unreal.

It's not even a COST issue.

It's well beyond that.

Marner essentially cannot be resigned.

HE JUST CANT.

The team KNOWS FOR SURE he cannot be resigned.

Why ?

The team said they know change is needed. Resigning Marner is the definition of no change. Anyone disputing that is pretending.

It is ULTRA clear, the new coach and Marner ARE NOT COMPATIBLE. Marner needs to realize he's moving on. He's in for a rude awakening if he steps on the ice with a Leafs jersey even one more time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The team said they know change is needed. Resigning Marner is the definition of no change. Anyone disputing that is pretending.

It is ULTRA clear, the new coach and Marner ARE NOT COMPATIBLE. Marner needs to realize he's moving on. He's in for a rude awakening if he steps on the ice with a Leafs jersey even one more time.

I think you're taking too much for granted here. Teams say stuff all the time that they don't really mean.

 

[francis246]

That’s a impressive accumulation of misfit toys, they’ve done a incredible job of building a great team………

Looking at their transaction history is crazy, just amazing move after amazing move. Look at what they gave up to get Montour, Reinhart, and Bennett and both years they didn’t even make a big trade deadline acquisition

It's not blasphemy, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Hyperbole is probably a better word. Extreme, over the top hyperbole.

The way I phrase it, is McDavid is hands down the best skill for skill hockey player to ever live. His combination of speed, size, drive and skill can never be replicated. But Gretzky is the best player to ever play in the NHL.

 

[ACC1224]

People are funny. They already got fleeced by Mattehws and Nylander, now they are ok with getting fleeced by Marner for the 2nd time. Unreal.

Who's ok with it?

 

[Trapper]

People are funny. They already got fleeced by Mattehws and Nylander, now they are ok with getting fleeced by Marner for the 2nd time. Unreal.

After watching Edmonton/Florida in the playoffs, and the playoffs in general, I can no longer watch this if they pay this guy 12+ to pouty face, temper tantrum and speak to the media like a 5 year old for who knows how many years.

 

[ACC1224]

The way I phrase it, is McDavid is hands down the best skill for skill hockey player to ever live. His combination of speed, size, drive and skill can never be replicated. But Gretzky is the best player to ever play in the NHL.

Not the right thread for this discussion but the overall skill in the league now is far better than Gretzky days, not even close.
Gretzky was no doubt far and away the best player of his generation, same with McDavid.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The way I phrase it, is McDavid is hands down the best skill for skill hockey player to ever live. His combination of speed, size, drive and skill can never be replicated. But Gretzky is the best player to ever play in the NHL.

I think the consensus is that the 4 best ever are Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Howe. As far as the order goes, you could make a case for any order really but my choice would be Bobby Orr.

I predicted before he played his first game that McDavid would end up as the consensus #5 of all time, today I'd say he ends up as either 5 or 6 with Crosby taking the other slot.

As far as McDavid's skill "can never be replicated", I can't agree with that. Someone else will come along for sure. Every generation is faster, stronger and just better overall than the one before so it's inevitable.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I think you're taking too much for granted here. Teams say stuff all the time that they don't really mean.

very true !

It's weird people don't see this as different. It clearly is.

It's weird people don't see Tre will have no flexibility long term by signing Marner and it WILL COST him his job quickly.

if Tre repeats Dubas' failures he's gonzo very quickly.

I think Marner is 100% done in Toronto. 100%.

Essentially Marner *CANNOT* be resigned. He just can't. Moving Marner is the essential change.

 

[Gary Nylund]

very true !

It's weird people don't see this as different. It clearly is.

It's weird people don't see Tre will have no flexibility long term by signing Marner and it WILL COST him his job quickly.

if Tre repeats Dubas' failures he's gonzo very quickly.

I think Marner is 100% done in Toronto. 100%.

Essentially Marner *CANNOT* be resigned. He just can't. Moving Marner is the essential change.

I sure hope you're right. Maybe it's all those decades of disappointment that are making me paranoid but I don't share your confidence. I could see Marner refusing to waive, the Leafs not wanting to look mean by pressuring him and in the end they decide letting him walk for nothing would look bad so they resign him, reasoning that JT will be off the books soon enough and that will enable them to fill the holes. For all we know it might not be up to Tre anyway and as long as people are still willing to pay ridiculous prices for tickets, the org might not think that they're "failing" to begin with. They say that winning is the goal, but I'm still pretty sure that winning isn't as important to the org as making money and as long as they're raking it in, they may not want to rock the boat.

 

[ToneDog]

very true !

It's weird people don't see this as different. It clearly is.

It's weird people don't see Tre will have no flexibility long term by signing Marner and it WILL COST him his job quickly.

if Tre repeats Dubas' failures he's gonzo very quickly.

I think Marner is 100% done in Toronto. 100%.

Essentially Marner *CANNOT* be resigned. He just can't. Moving Marner is the essential change.

After Pelley said "we are not here to sell jerseys", he'd look like a fool if they ran it back. Eight years of these greedy, losers is enough. I'd get rid of all of them if could. All the talent in the world and very little heart or guts. No guts, no glory is so true.

 

[francis246]

I think the consensus is that the 4 best ever are Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Howe. As far as the order goes, you could make a case for any order really but my choice would be Bobby Orr.

I predicted before he played his first game that McDavid would end up as the consensus #5 of all time, today I'd say he ends up as either 5 or 6 with Crosby taking the other slot.

As far as McDavid's skill "can never be replicated", I can't agree with that. Someone else will come along for sure. Every generation is faster, stronger and just better overall than the one before so it's inevitable.

I don’t think we’ve ever seen a player like McDavid in the history of the NHL. His package of being able to perform like he does at top speed, I don’t think we will ever see that combination, he is truly a once in a lifetime player.

Connor McDavid is #2 or #3 for me. If he can get a cup he’s above Orr and Howe for me, I simply think he’s a better player than both those guys.

Gretzky is 1
Mario is 2
McJesus is 3

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don’t think we’ve ever seen a player like McDavid in the history of the NHL. His package of being able to perform like he does at top speed, I don’t think we will ever see that combination, he is truly a once in a lifetime player.

Connor McDavid is #2 or #3 for me. If he can get a cup he’s above Orr and Howe for me, I simply think he’s a better player than both those guys.

Gretzky is 1
Mario is 2
McJesus is 3

Players are always getting faster. McDavid is faster than Orr was 50 years ago, and someone will be faster again in another 50 years, probably long before that. There's more to skating than speed though, Marner for example is an excellent skater despite being slow. But sure McDavid is awesome, not just super fast but also right up there with the best stickhandlers of all time like Perrault, Jagr, Lemieux, Kane, Orr, could list a bunch of guys here really.

I would say that McDavid is not just fastest, but the best overall skater in the league. I don't know who's second best, but I would say that the gap between McDavid and whoever you have at second is much smaller than the gap between Bobby Orr and anyone else. Orr was unreal, he used to skate backward at practice than anyone else could skate going forward. He also had elite hockey sense, on a level with Gretzky. He was so far ahead of his time and a good an example of what's meant by the expression "a man playing with boys". Bobby Orr did things nobody had ever done before, IMO he is still the best skater ever and he changed the way the game was played.

Just curious, did you ever see Bobby Orr play?