Marner: Keep or Walk Poll

[Community]

I think the damage is done and the relationship over, but that's just speculation.

It's clear to me that splitting up elite talent is most beneficial 9/10 times (i.e. why Draisaitl and McDavid end up on different lines more often then not).

I also think Marner and Matthews running their own lines is more likely to result in a net benefit even if their individual numbers go down a little bit.

Matthews - Marner and JT - Nylander work from the fact they prefer to be a shooter - passer and both - both perspective. However, neither lines were well equipped to start the forecheck (especially after Knies was hurt) so their forced turnovers in the o-zone wasn't good.

It's too late now, but I think even when Marner and Matthews are working well that them running 2 separate lines is more beneficial in the playoffs than one, especially when none of our depth is scoring. If you have three scoring lines then give a shift on the 1st line to whoever fits on the 3rd line every 3rd shift or so.

Lines go cold all the time. Barkovs line wasn't great against the Leafs but their 3rd line was fantastic.

 

[BlueForever75]

My vote was to let him walk. But with that being said, how do they replace his scoring in the lineup? I don't think it is only him that has to be let go. I think Reilly needs to be forced out of town. Now with both of these things said, this is what I want to see:

Let Marner walk
Sign Tavares to team friendly deal ( 5-6 million per)

These two transactions save you around 16 million.

Then you force Reilly to waive his no trade. Provide 10 teams you would accept a trade to. Trade him with an eye to not replace him on D but bring in a couple of pieces for your forward core that will check a box on your bottom 6 and find someone for the top 6. This deal may need to be expanded (something like Reilly, Kampf and Robertson rights).

This transaction clears cap space, how much depends on what comes back in. But to start with you can ship out roughly $10.2 million in salary. You should easily be able to bring in 2 players at that cost if not less in trade. So lets say you bring in a 5 million dollar top 6 forward, and a 2 million dollar forward for bottom 6. Maybe the team we work with eats some salary. So lets say you save on the trade 2 million. This now gives us 18 million in cap space.

The last change to the roster before free agency should be the trading of Jarnkrok and his $2.1 million cap hit. This should be easy enough as his guaranteed money for the last year of his contract $875K as the rest is bonus. But his cap hit is still $2.1 million. Something a team like Utah, Seattle, Islanders, Buffalo, Chicago would be all over for a pick or two. This would bring us to 20 million in cap space with holes to fill in free agency and without the cap rising this off season. Add 7.5 million to that and your at almost $28 million to spend in free agency.

Now work with me:

Needs are a C, replacement D for Reilly, more scoring, size/speed/heart and grit all being pre-requisites

They should be all over Bennett. Bring him home. After winning his second cup in 2 years in Florida. Its time for him to leave and cash out. Sign him to $7 million X 6 years contract. He's 28 and will be good until hes 34/35. This leaves you $20 million to spend.

Sign Ekblad for $8.5 million per season times 4 years. Its more expensive then Reilly but he is a better Dman then Reilly and plays more physical like Tre and Chief like. This leaves you 11.5 to spend.

Sign Brandon Tanev to close out his career in Toronto playing at home and with his brother. $2 million a season times 2. Leaves you $9.5 million left

Re-sign Lorentz. $1.3 million times 2 years. Leaves you around 8 million.

Re-sign Holmberg. Depth piece who can move in up and down lineup. $1 million for the year. Leaves 7 million.

I spend no more based on this scenario as some of these contracts may need to rise a bit. But leave space to do so. Here's my lineup:

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Forward acquired in Reilly deal - Bennett - Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Forward acquired in Reilly deal
Lorentz - Laughton - Tanev
Holmberg

OEL - Ekblad
McCabe - Tanev
Benoit - Carlo
Myers

 

[mikeyz]

My vote was to let him walk. But with that being said, how do they replace his scoring in the lineup? I don't think it is only him that has to be let go. I think Reilly needs to be forced out of town. Now with both of these things said, this is what I want to see:

Let Marner walk
Sign Tavares to team friendly deal ( 5-6 million per)

These two transactions save you around 16 million.

Then you force Reilly to waive his no trade. Provide 10 teams you would accept a trade to. Trade him with an eye to not replace him on D but bring in a couple of pieces for your forward core that will check a box on your bottom 6 and find someone for the top 6. This deal may need to be expanded (something like Reilly, Kampf and Robertson rights).

This transaction clears cap space, how much depends on what comes back in. But to start with you can ship out roughly $10.2 million in salary. You should easily be able to bring in 2 players at that cost if not less in trade. So lets say you bring in a 5 million dollar top 6 forward, and a 2 million dollar forward for bottom 6. Maybe the team we work with eats some salary. So lets say you save on the trade 2 million. This now gives us 18 million in cap space.

The last change to the roster before free agency should be the trading of Jarnkrok and his $2.1 million cap hit. This should be easy enough as his guaranteed money for the last year of his contract $875K as the rest is bonus. But his cap hit is still $2.1 million. Something a team like Utah, Seattle, Islanders, Buffalo, Chicago would be all over for a pick or two. This would bring us to 20 million in cap space with holes to fill in free agency and without the cap rising this off season. Add 7.5 million to that and your at almost $28 million to spend in free agency.

Now work with me:

Needs are a C, replacement D for Reilly, more scoring, size/speed/heart and grit all being pre-requisites

They should be all over Bennett. Bring him home. After winning his second cup in 2 years in Florida. Its time for him to leave and cash out. Sign him to $7 million X 6 years contract. He's 28 and will be good until hes 34/35. This leaves you $20 million to spend.

Sign Ekblad for $8.5 million per season times 4 years. Its more expensive then Reilly but he is a better Dman then Reilly and plays more physical like Tre and Chief like. This leaves you 11.5 to spend.

Sign Brandon Tanev to close out his career in Toronto playing at home and with his brother. $2 million a season times 2. Leaves you $9.5 million left

Re-sign Lorentz. $1.3 million times 2 years. Leaves you around 8 million.

Re-sign Holmberg. Depth piece who can move in up and down lineup. $1 million for the year. Leaves 7 million.

I spend no more based on this scenario as some of these contracts may need to rise a bit. But leave space to do so. Here's my lineup:

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Forward acquired in Reilly deal - Bennett - Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Forward acquired in Reilly deal
Lorentz - Laughton - Tanev
Holmberg

OEL - Ekblad
McCabe - Tanev
Benoit - Carlo
Myers

I kinda like this team. Depending on what the return would be for Reilly.

 

[ZEBROA]

I dont think the team will be better without him. But i think he needs to go.
Leafs need to be realy smart to get out of this stronger. So i give it 2% chance of happening.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

No real choice but to let him walk because he's not signing at a "discount". 8Y x 13M? No thanks.

Unfortunately the UFA class isn't great but will still demand $$$ with the cap going up so instead I think they'll have to recruit some real competent pro scouts and go dumpster diving to unearth rough gems - 23 & 24 y.o. prospects who've come up to the AHL but didn't get a real shot yet, or had injury problems, etc. Otherwise we're looking at overpaying for something like Boeser + Mangiapane instead.

 

[Maple Leaf]

catch 22
sign him and run it back and never win
lose him and you got worse

 

[hullsy47]

Cut him loose. Time to shake things up.

Doesnt matter .he wouldnt sign
He was leaving since last july

 

[ToneDog]

Bunkis - Leafs have $27m in cap space. Do you want to give half to Marner? Hell f***ing no.

Let him walk. Stay away from this loser.

 

[ToneDog]

catch 22
sign him and run it back and never win
lose him and you got worse

or better lose him and get better in the playoffs

I'll take the smaller Stankoven over Marner in the playoffs all day long. Marner is a 9 time proven playoff loser. How many more playoff eggs does he have to lay for Leafs management to admit it?

 

[Ports]

I want Marner gone, but to play devil's advocate: we replace him with a 60-point player like Ehlers and miss the playoffs. Mitch wins us A LOT of games in November and March....

We don’t miss the playoffs. Better goaltending and defense and Berube’s tighter checking system means we won’t miss Marner’s secondary assists as much.

 

[thewave]

9 time playoff loser will be a 10 time playoff loser here. He best go find a team that is right on the cusp so he can maybe put them over the edge. Maybe

 

[Stephen]

It was quite frustrating for me all year that Marner never got his own line.

Not just for the common reasons, but because I knew we would reach this juncture... and no, we can't now obligate $100M with an NMC attached to see if that might work.

That's not part of the equation anymore - information absent - forget about it.

Bad mgmt of an important asset.

I think we can take it that Marner has never embraced running out there with Steve Lorentz and Nick Robertson and elevating his teammates and creating balanced scoring.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Like many fans, I keep changing my thoughts on this.
I have tried to determine in my own mind, why?
Today I believe I found a way to express it.
Mitchy is a terrific player, replacing his points, his ice time, his skills is near impossible and likely only 12 to 15 players in this league are capable of filling this hole. Where I am conflicted is his team presence. Have Mitchy and AM elevated themselves in the team sense to appear elitist. The bottom of the lineup has constantly changed as to not really be part of the team. Team 1 and team 2.
AM and Mitchy both through team mates under the bus. Can the Keafs ever be a team with both these guys. Why do our gms feel it necessary to find character for the room? Not character on the ice not team toughness, but specifically for the room.
AM and Mitchy are tied together. It appears their characters are the same. Will letting one go help the team assuming you can get a reasonable TEAM replacement.
AM has without a doubt isolated himself with his comments. If I was a team mate I could wait to confront him. He will have to explain himself If he wants to be the captain. It shows how elitist he is.
These two players, as exceptional as they are need to be separated, it will be best for the Leafs and best for them.
Mitchy must go. If that is to happen, to get the most of this step, THE LEAFS MUST MAKE THAT DECISION AND PUBLICALLY MAKE IT CLEAR THEY ARE IN CONTROL, NOT THE PLAYERS.

 

[willmma]

Mitch signed his contract in 2019, for only 6 years and $10.903 cap hit
Kucherov signed his contract in 2019, for 8 years and $9.5 cap hit

Marner is bad for this team, he thinks he is and want to be paid as the best player on the team, which he is not.

We need to get rid of him.

Replace him with a couple of big, 20 goal scorers and we are in a much better place.

​

 

[Mess]

catch 22
sign him and run it back and never win
lose him and you got worse

Addition by Subtraction

Leafs bring in Brock Boeser and Sam Bennett and get 2 players for ALMOST the price of one.

 

[killer1980]

It's all based on attitude and perception. The perception of the fans is that Marner, as talented as he is, is only playing for himself. He has done nothing to dissuade that feeling. If the fans ever thought that he was playing for the city rather than himself, I think the feelings of the fans would change. Will that happen? I doubt it but it is never too late to change public perception.

 

[BlueForever75]

I kinda like this team. Depending on what the return would be for Reilly.

We could always trade Reilly for a pick or two and prospect. Saving entire cap number and spreading that throughout the lineup. Here is another option:

Trade Reilly for picks and prospect
Re-sign Tavares
Re-sign Lorentz
Trade Jarnkrok and Kampf for picks

Sign Granlund, Mangiapanne, Kane and Tanev as forwards
Sign Ekblad as Reilly replacement

Knies-Matthews-Kane
Mangiapanne-Granlund-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Domi
Lorentz-Laughton-Tanev

OEL-Ekblad
McCabe-Tanev
Benoit-Carlo

Stolarz
Woll

 

[TheScandal89]

I'm still amazed people are throwing out top names like Bennett, Boeser and Ekblad without even thinking that 1. Good chance the 2 stay in Florida and 2. They don't wanna come here. It's never an automatic here, people forget.

 

[Tak7]

It's all based on attitude and perception. The perception of the fans is that Marner, as talented as he is, is only playing for himself. He has done nothing to dissuade that feeling. If the fans ever thought that he was playing for the city rather than himself, I think the feelings of the fans would change. Will that happen? I doubt it but it is never too late to change public perception.

Think it's unfair to expect players to play "for the city" versus "themselves" - most of these guys have careers that average, 10-12 years, and they have a small window to make their big earnings.

However, you can absolutely question whether a player is wanting to play for "himself" vs playing to "win", and question where a player lands on that scale. If you back to the RFA class of 2019, the tagline was that this class was going "change the way" RFAs negotiated their deals, given how many high quality high end RFAs were needing new deals, including Marner.

Almost to a man, they all signed team-friendly deals with the exception of Marner.

We've known for some time now, and it's not just with Mitch - these guys care more about their own personal wealth and bank accounts, than they do about actually winning in this league.

And that translates into everything they do, and in particular, with Marner - it's in his play, it's in the way he conducts himself publicly with the media. All of it.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Addition by Subtraction

Leafs bring in Brock Boeser and Sam Bennett and get 2 players for ALMOST the price of one.

They need to actually get them signed, what if they end up with Laughton

 

[58 Years No Cup]

Like many fans, I keep changing my thoughts on this.
I have tried to determine in my own mind, why?
Today I believe I found a way to express it.
Mitchy is a terrific player, replacing his points, his ice time, his skills is near impossible and likely only 12 to 15 players in this league are capable of filling this hole. Where I am conflicted is his team presence. Have Mitchy and AM elevated themselves in the team sense to appear elitist. The bottom of the lineup has constantly changed as to not really be part of the team. Team 1 and team 2.
AM and Mitchy both through team mates under the bus. Can the Keafs ever be a team with both these guys. Why do our gms feel it necessary to find character for the room? Not character on the ice not team toughness, but specifically for the room.
AM and Mitchy are tied together. It appears their characters are the same. Will letting one go help the team assuming you can get a reasonable TEAM replacement.
AM has without a doubt isolated himself with his comments. If I was a team mate I could wait to confront him. He will have to explain himself If he wants to be the captain. It shows how elitist he is.
These two players, as exceptional as they are need to be separated, it will be best for the Leafs and best for them.
Mitchy must go. If that is to happen, to get the most of this step, THE LEAFS MUST MAKE THAT DECISION AND PUBLICALLY MAKE IT CLEAR THEY ARE IN CONTROL, NOT THE PLAYERS.

Very well said.

 

[notbias]

I think the damage is done and the relationship over, but that's just speculation.

It's clear to me that splitting up elite talent is most beneficial 9/10 times (i.e. why Draisaitl and McDavid end up on different lines more often then not).

They spend more time together than apart.

Also, both their numbers drop off, Drai's do, a lot.

 

[Dayjobdave]

When Vegas almost won the cup their first year they exposed an opportunity in the cap world. Well motivated good players focused on defense can almost neutralize stars. Replacement players can be exploited by well motivated good players.

It is easier to build a dominant bottom 6 if you don’t overspend, and that bottom 6 can have a bigger advantage than a star laden top 6.

Don’t spend all our dough on 4 guys.

 

[centipede2233]

When Vegas almost won the cup their first year they exposed an opportunity in the cap world. Well motivated good players focused on defense can almost neutralize stars. Replacement players can be exploited by well motivated good players.

It is easier to build a dominant bottom 6 if you don’t overspend, and that bottom 6 can have a bigger advantage than a star laden top 6.

Don’t spend all our dough on 4 guys.

Very true, very important to have cap allocated theoughout the lineup instead of half of it in 4 forwards, I guess dubas was trying to reinvent the wheel

 

[REALTALK81]

You can't just loose a talent like Marner for nothing. The detractors say they would rather get two guys who can perform in the playoffs over him. They even give names like Bennett, Marchand, Ekblad as if there are tons of options of strong playoff performers when in reality, there isn't. Not to mention that there is a very high chance that the "playoff performers" wouldn't choose to come to Toronto anyway. I know the media gives the fans click bait but not every FA or RFA wants to be a Maple Leaf but there are other teams in the league. Not to mention the player could stay where they were playing the prior season.

Let's say you do get Bennett. Would he be able to take over games when Matthews is out a couple of weeks with unknown injury? Marner did. If he didn't do that, Leafs wouldn't have been tops of the Atlantic and would have faced Florida in round 1.

Marner was point per game player in the playoffs while being a set up man to a guy who couldn't score. He played in all situations.

If you can definitely make the team better by having Marner walk, do it but if he walks and nothing of significance get signed, you asked for it.