Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Winter is coming

[ElbowLander]

Can we trade this bum marner soon??

 

[MattySnipes]

The Bruins have the best modell in hockey. This is how much the market suggests you are worth and this is how much we think you are worth. Usually close in numbers so no misunderstanding. This is our offer, take it or leave it. None of this dragged on nonsense year after year.
If player doesn't like it a trade is agreed upon without hesitation. They usually get good value for the trades as well. They do not allow the player to become larger than the team, nor should they. This "the tail wagging the dog nonsense needs to stop"
They should never have let Willie drag it on to the final minutes. Draw a line in the sand and stick to it as a philosophy.
If said player doesn't like it here so be it, good luck elsewhere.
Team first always........... within reason!

Agree with you, but you can't expect the Leafs to be that way with the core.

Boston teams (NHL, MLB, NFL) are just managed differently from a lot of teams, largely due to their team successes and attitude towards team building.

The Leafs are still searching for a Cup in the modern-NHL. Bruins have one. Leafs were scorched 3ish years ago. Completely. With new management, culture, and personnel.

The long suffering, loyal fanbase finally got their core of young stars to build a team around and they all came up together. You can't afford to drive them out of town after finally getting very good-elite talent that produced, no less.

I wouldn't mind seeing a shift to a more Bruins-like mentality when dealing with players but probably going forward after Marner and Rielly are re-signed in the near future.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The Bruins have the best modell in hockey. This is how much the market suggests you are worth and this is how much we think you are worth. Usually close in numbers so no misunderstanding. This is our offer, take it or leave it. None of this dragged on nonsense year after year.
If player doesn't like it a trade is agreed upon without hesitation. They usually get good value for the trades as well. They do not allow the player to become larger than the team, nor should they. This "the tail wagging the dog nonsense needs to stop"
They should never have let Willie drag it on to the final minutes. Draw a line in the sand and stick to it as a philosophy.
If said player doesn't like it here so be it, good luck elsewhere.
Team first always........... within reason!

They also have their #1 and #3 D sitting out at the moment. And MacAvoy doesn't even have the option of getting an offersheet.

 

[jrgtml67]

Can we trade this bum marner soon??

This just in..traded to.....wait hold on me information...he wants to be a leaf and there are 5 to 7 other RFAs doing the same thing

Give it up

 

[jrgtml67]

They also have their #1 and #3 D sitting out at the moment. And MacAvoy doesn't even have the option of getting an offersheet.

Bruins had the best model..wait until the lose Bergeron, Rask will decline. Their future is Pasta Marchand Mac Debrusk. They have no goalies coming to my knowledge nor well anything leafs boast an excellent ECHL team, AHL team and NHL team

 

[jrgtml67]

Agree with you, but you can't expect the Leafs to be that way with the core.

Boston teams (NHL, MLB, NFL) are just managed differently from a lot of teams, largely due to their team successes and attitude towards team building.

The Leafs are still searching for a Cup in the modern-NHL. Bruins have one. Leafs were scorched 3ish years ago. Completely. With new management, culture, and personnel.

The long suffering, loyal fanbase finally got their core of young stars to build a team around and they all came up together. You can't afford to drive them out of town after finally getting very good-elite talent that produced, no less.

I wouldn't mind seeing a shift to a more Bruins-like mentality when dealing with players but probably going forward after Marner and Rielly are re-signed in the near future.

Dude its happening. We have a great ECHL team, AHL and NHL. Things take time and pur fanbase is impatient for good reason..rushing..well look to Mr Brian Burke model it sucks to wait but worth it

 

[Notsince67]

It's freakin ridiculous...Marner's camp wants more than double Werenski's pay on a 3 year term!

So do I

 

[Dekes For Days]

So despite total year points for Marner outweighing Matthews for the last two years

Only because of injury, which should not be projected.

Whatever you want to think about last year, Matthews was unquestionably the better player and more important to this team in year 2, injury included.

it is your position that he may continue in this pattern until you deem it is appropriate to declare him the higher team contributor.

No, I'm saying, as I said from the very start, you can't just look at raw point totals with zero context and say "see he's better". There is no evidence that Marner will regularly outproduce Matthews anyway.

Your arguments have a continied tone of dishonesty in their approach. They lack courage because you attempt to dodge from what you expect Matthews to produce relative to Marner in the future

I'm not dodging anything, and I have not been dishonest at all. You're the one that started using ridiculous hyperbole, claiming that if Matthews was better than Marner, so was Cam Atkinson. I have said from the start and repeatedly that:

1. All else equal, there is no evidence that Marner will outproduce Matthews going forward.
2. Since all else will likely not be equal, there is a chance that Marner could outproduce Matthews in raw point totals in some year, but this does not automatically make him the better or more important player to the team.
3. Regardless of what happens in the future, the signings are based on what they had done at time of signing, and Matthews deserves a bigger contract.

 

[Dekes For Days]

One can assume a UFA year for Matthews to be a maximum amount of 15.9MM.

One cannot assume this at all.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lets also not pretend like 26 goals be a 21 year old player is poor, or anything too. Being so young, it would be silly not to expect him to become a 30 goal scorer at some point, too. Lets not pretend that Marner is a pure playmaker....

While Marner could end up getting 30 goals at some point, pretty much everything went right for him to get 26 (played with elite talent, high ES OISH%, high EN goals), and he's not a shooter on the PP (for good reason), so aside from a jump in development, it shouldn't exactly be expected.

And while 26 goals is not "poor", it is nowhere near the generational goal-scoring talent that Matthews is.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sure Marner didn't lead the NHL in scoring nor be named MVP like Kuch

For like the 20th time, neither had Kuch when he signed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That's a steal. But it essentially walks him to UFA. Weird contract since cap space isn't an issue there at all.

He's from Michigan so clearly he wants out to go to Detroit.

Am I doing this right?

 

[kb]

While Marner could end up getting 30 goals at some point, pretty much everything went right for him to get 26 (played with elite talent, high ES OISH%, high EN goals), and he's not a shooter on the PP (for good reason), so aside from a jump in development, it shouldn't exactly be expected.

And while 26 goals is not "poor", it is nowhere near the generational goal-scoring talent that Matthews is.

Plus he's a JT injury away from returning to less than a PPG. He's the player due for regression, and he's the player that's far more dependent on his linemates for his point totals. Matthews was injured, and saddled with far lesser talent and still produced at a near similar pace with far more goals. He's less dependent on linemates and scores goals at a rate that exceeded every player over the past 3 seasons.

But anyone with a basic understanding of the game already knows this though...

 

[Dekes For Days]

The Bruins have the best modell in hockey. This is how much the market suggests you are worth and this is how much we think you are worth. Usually close in numbers so no misunderstanding. This is our offer, take it or leave it. None of this dragged on nonsense year after year.

This is not what happens at all.

Their good contracts were signed before those players skyrocketed in production. Also, Pastrnak literally signed on September 14th. They currently do not have McAvoy (their #1D) or Carlo signed, and Krug has already spoken out in disappointment that they haven't approached him for an extension.

If player doesn't like it a trade is agreed upon without hesitation. They usually get good value for the trades as well.

They have ended up losing on pretty much all of the deals involving potential stars leaving Boston. They have potentially cost themselves a cup.

They should never have let Willie drag it on to the final minutes. Draw a line in the sand and stick to it as a philosophy.

They literally did draw a line in the sand and stick to it with Nylander.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner would probably demand the 10x3 deal be something like 8, 8 and 14.

That is an illegal contract.

 

[Nineteen67]

If you don't think people are whispering to Mirtle and Dreger your out of your mind, it's biased but it happens especially with certain agents who tend to negotiate in the media and the Leafs front office isn't great for that either if I'm being honest (Shanahan during the Nylander negotiations)

I'd never blame a media sorce for reporting it, I blame the parties negotiating for leaking to them to further their own interests

It's bad, no matter who's doing it and their both doing it (Marner's side is just worse)

Neither the team nor agent/ player are bad for leaking. Same with the “insider” letting us know about it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not sure why so many people seem to admire the "Boston way" of doing things. I believe they've won one cup in the last 47 years, yes that's one more than us but still, that hardly seems worthy of being put on a pedestal. Not only have they done poorly when it comes to not keeping elite talent, I'd even say that the way they handled these situations is quite possibly the reason they haven't won more cups.

JMHO.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Thanks, I knew it was a percent but didn't realize it was that high of a %.

It's not. Salaries in any year can't be less than 50% of the highest year, and they can't have more than 35% variance from year to year.

 

[ACC1224]

Plus he's a JT injury away from returning to less than a PPG. He's the player due for regression, and he's the player that's far more dependent on his linemates for his point totals. Matthews was injured, and saddled with far lesser talent and still produced at a near similar pace with far more goals. He's less dependent on linemates and scores goals at a rate that exceeded every player over the past 3 seasons.

But anyone with a basic understanding of the game already knows this though...

Fortunate his whole life. Could a kid be any luckier?
First carried to a legendary junior career by Dvorak and Tkachuk, then by Bozak/JVR, Kadri/Marleau and now Tavares.
I'm sure Dubas will see through the facade and pay him accordingly.

 

[Peasy]

The only reason Boston has a few steals for contracts is because those players peaked dramatically after they were already locked up. Marchand wasnt putting up over a ppg and they got him signed for 6m. Same with Bergeron. Pasta also wasnt what he is today when he signed. Its amazing how difficult for some people to understand this. If Marchand was a UFA right now you can bet he'd be getting 9m+.

 

[ULF_55]

So do I

I'd settle for one year of Werenski's ... set for life.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Bruins had the best model..wait until the lose Bergeron, Rask will decline. Their future is Pasta Marchand Mac Debrusk. They have no goalies coming to my knowledge nor well anything leafs boast an excellent ECHL team, AHL team and NHL team

And to your point, that's not going to win them squat. Marchand is going to decline in the next few years too (he's already 31 and eventually teams are just going to nail into him hard) and DeBrusk is a glorified energy player. So their future is literally Pastrnak (who likely declines as soon as Bergeron and Marchand simply due to lower quality line mates) and McAvoy, and that is assuming Pastrnak is willing to stick around. I can see him leaving to pursue a better team and far more money like Panarin did.

If the Dubas totally misplayed his hand, the Leafs are still Cup contenders for the next 5-6 years and will be in the mix for at least another 5 after that (even if we have to move on from some guys). The Bruins may squeeze another 3 years out of their team before needing to scorch the earth for a while.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Fortunate his whole life. Could a kid be any luckier?
First carried to a legendary junior career by Dvorak and Tkachuk, then by Bozak/JVR, Kadri/Marleau and now Tavares.
I'm sure Dubas will see through the facade and pay him accordingly.

Seems like he already has...

 

[ACC1224]

Seems like he already has...

Until ink hits paper he hasn't.
It's going to be really interesting the reaction the contract is going to get.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

It is amazing the amount of press and clicks the statements get that start with

- I think
- I believe
- I feel
etc...

Yea nobody cares what you believe Dreger

I think that I believe I feel that Mitch Marner is of the opinion that Paul feels he doesn't get any respect. It is reported that Mitch feels that he thinks this lack of respect can be mitigated by feeling several million dollars in one's bank account.