Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[Ryan Michaels]

Deduct 10-15% of point totals for top tier players, because every good players totals went up when they gave them more net to shoot at with tender pad reductions. Do that and its all so much more unremarkable. Marner and Matthews are good players, not greats, not yet. Matthews could be a great goal scorer though, thats legit.

They are "great players," don't be ridiculous. Scoring has gone up but a massive part of that is powerplay production which barely helped the Leafs due to their style of play that draws next to no penalties and an ineffective powerplay for much of the season. Mitch Marner produced a top 10 even strength point season this decade. His contract demands are silly and he's not as good as Matthews but he is a great player. Matthews is the best even strength goal scorer in the league, he may take over as the best goal scorer period, by next year, and he's 21.

Some of you guys need to put things in perspective. If the worst case scenario is a three year contract that doesn't save us a ton of money so be it, this is still a team with a terrific core locked up for 3 years. Then we address it again, 1000 days of your life later(and you will be losing sleep over it by day 1, people are already so worried about Auston, I don't think that's what your life coach meant when they suggested a 5 year plan) and hope that the people who do this for a living can figure it out. God, I want this to be over so badly.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Oh god, the 9.5M x 3 is true, isn’t it

Yes i would think it is.

 

[Legion34]

Just who had more points. JT or Marner. Marner right so who inflated who’s stats. JT had more goals then assists for the first time ever as he had a superior talent then himself playing with him.

The guy who went from 69 to 94

 

[Dekes For Days]

This thread is full of people who don't understand how good Matthews and Marner are, and have let a team stat like PP opportunities/TOI skew their perception.

In terms of this year's major RFAs, Matthews and Marner are unmatched.

Even strength P/GP at time of signing:

Matthews - 132/182 - 0.73
Marner - 152/241 - 0.63
Point - 135/229 - 0.59
Aho - 133/242 - 0.55
Rantanen - 131/239 - 0.55
Tkachuk - 120/224 - 0.54
Boeser - 76/140 - 0.54
Connor - 95/178 - 0.53
Laine - 116/237 - 0.49
Meier - 93/193 - 0.48

I think people would be very, very surprised at how some players of the past rank as well, even when adjusting for era.

Keep in mind that both of them also produce on the PP at a rate better than any of these guys, in points and primary points.

 

[DarkKnight]

The guy who went from 69 to 94

Wow, so second year pros have peaked then according to your asinine logic. Marner has 61 points in his last 50 NHL games heading into last season, hello.

 

[thewave]

Mußsssskokkkaaa 5 2.0, here we come.

 

[Legion34]

Wow, so second year pros have peaked then according to your asinine logic. Marner has 61 points in his last 50 NHL games heading into last season, hello.

Nobody said he did?
Dramatically increasing scoring by 35 pts in ONE season. When you just happen to be paired with a centre whom every single player he plays with has a career year?

That’s not suspicious?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That is false. He produced way more 5 on 5 points by a long way then he ever did.

Because scoring is up. Tavares has finished top 5 in 5v5 points before. Marner had a massive leap in his 5v5 production though

 

[ACC1224]

Oh god, the 9.5M x 3 is true, isn’t it

Excellent

 

[Legion34]

Because scoring is up. Tavares has finished top 5 in 5v5 points before. Marner had a massive leap in his 5v5 production though

Tavares was 2 in the league in points.

 

[DarkKnight]

Nobody said he did?
Dramatically increasing scoring by 35 pts in ONE season. When you just happen to be paired with a centre whom every single player he plays with has a career year?

That’s not suspicious?

JT had a career year 5 v 5 by a huge margin, which you’re ignoring. A ten year pro vs a kid.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The rationale for my frustrations as a Leafs fan is written out on page 1 of this thread. Below is the link:

Salary Cap: - Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp


And this is not a "hingsight" view; I've been saying that since last summer even before we signed JT but especially after we signed JT.

Dubas just took it too easy for lord knows why? Shanny had commented in the media that he was looking to get some discount from the "young leaders" on the roster to keep the "team" together; that was shut down and Dubas came out and made huge claims of "we can and we will"; and talked about "fair market price" whcih was all fine and dandy; and then he takes nylander contract to dec 1st; give matthews that inflated deal and is now caught in between the two fiascos as an executive that is asking another RFA to bendover....

More importantly, what pisses me off are the dubas and nylander apologists that chime in and say that nylander's season last year was not an issue but shred marner's production as if tavares carried marner on that line. which is not true

Go and take a look at our core next season no matter what Marner gets and the talent in the pipeline and the lack of big Rfa contracts we will need to get done next year and then go take a look at our conference teams position.

We are going to be in such great shape that its getting ***** crazy how much negative energy you are putting in to this damn thread. I don’t really give a sh!t about anything but future success and by all accounts Dubas has us in great shape.

The moaning is getting pretty sickening. Future looks great so what are you going on about. Give it a break already

 

[Legion34]

JT had a career year 5 v 5 by a huge margin, which you’re ignoring. A ten year pro vs a kid.

Tavares has been 2nd in the league in scoring

 

[PromisedLand]

If it comes to that, you chose between superstar Marner at 8x13(ish) or Nylander 2X7.

evidence suggests that Nylander cannot produce away frm Matthews; while Matthews produces regardless

Marner produces at a decent clip without a talent like Tavares; so it is a pretty obvious choice IMO

 

[thewave]

They are "great players," don't be ridiculous. Scoring has gone up but a massive part of that is powerplay production which barely helped the Leafs due to their style of play that draws next to no penalties and an ineffective powerplay for much of the season. Mitch Marner produced a top 10 even strength point season this decade. His contract demands are silly and he's not as good as Matthews but he is a great player. Matthews is the best even strength goal scorer in the league, he may take over as the best goal scorer period, by next year, and he's 21.

Some of you guys need to put things in perspective. If the worst case scenario is a three year contract that doesn't save us a ton of money so be it, this is still a team with a terrific core locked up for 3 years. Then we address it again, 1000 days of your life later(and you will be losing sleep over it by day 1, people are already so worried about Auston, I don't think that's what your life coach meant when they suggested a 5 year plan) and hope that the people who do this for a living can figure it out. God, I want this to be over so badly.

I leave this page and detach. Its all good. The point was simply changes were made that never got taken into account for contracts. They should have. Dubas dropped the ball, fans pay the price. Odds of winning go down a lot with every overpay. 5m could mean keeping Rielly or Sandin or more immediately Barrie. We are as of today paying 3 1sts + to have Muzzin and Barrie +Marleau cap. Basically we better win it this year. Next year cap is worse for us, trade more 1sts for discount D??? We are about to bleed out our assets...

 

[PromisedLand]

The guy who went from 69 to 94

yea... the guy is elite!!!

 

[PromisedLand]

Mußsssskokkkaaa 5 2.0, here we come.

Muskoka de dubas

 

[ShaneFalco]

If it's a 3 year deal I suspect he'll be traded at some point to avoid this shit-show again

 

[DarkKnight]

Tavares has been 2nd in the league in scoring

Nobody disputes JT is a stud, I love the guy! You’re just ignoring what I’m presenting.

Also what does it say about the GM that he didn’t see a Marner surge with a stud C? It’s a bit comical that people are pumping JT’s pre Marner output, and they’re also quick to absolve Dubas last summer. I said Marner would go off with JT, people here are saying “of course he played with JT”, and yet apparently Dubas didn’t see the massive risk. Pretzels.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Conditioning complete.

The 9.5 x 3 deal public outcry won't outweigh the "but it could have been worse" retort.

Media sensationalism weapon put to great use once again and the fans are the ultimate losers yet again. That will hands down be the worst RFA contract ever handed out.

the problem is we can't afford a cap hit higher than 9.5ish, really it needs to be 9.1-9.2 to allow to run a 23 man roster (inc all 900K+ elc's). I doubt guys like Bracco, Korshkov make the team but I used them to see what we can afford with the highest bottom 6 guys. We can do 9.5 with a 22 man roster easy tho

 

[PromisedLand]

what i find hilarious are the guys who are posting marner's production is a fluke and he won't produce at the same clip; if marner signs a reasonable deal for long term and out produces his contract by a huge margin will be the same posters who would claim that dubas is a genius but will not address that they were WRONG about Marner

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The guy who went from 69 to 94

Marner drove the bus on that line and the powerplay and the penalty kill. Stop running him down because he is going to make some large coin if you like it or not.

Everyone knows he was better or equally as good as Matthews for the past season and a half. Right around the time lunatic took him off the fourth line ha. Babs likely saved us a fortune holding him back. Just sayin

 

[Wafflewhipper]

what i find hilarious are the guys who are posting marner's production is a fluke and he won't produce at the same clip; if marner signs a reasonable deal for long term and out produces his contract by a huge margin will be the same posters who would claim that dubas is a genius but will not address that they were WRONG about Marner

Ohhh come on now! Dubas has done fine and you won’t quit on it

 

[Menzinger]

Marner drove the bus on that line and the powerplay and the penalty kill. Stop running him down because he is going to make some large coin if you like it or not.

Everyone knows he was better or equally as good as Matthews for the past season and a half. Right around the time lunatic took him off the fourth line ha. Babs likely saved us a fortune holding him back. Just sayin

Tavares has been a top 10 centre n the league since his debut and has a lonng documented history of boosting his linemates production.

Yes Marner made an impact but he was hardly the only one driving that the line.

 

[diceman934]

The guy who went from 69 to 94

He produced at that same rate for 40 games with out him the season before. So again tell me who produced more points.