Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread

[supermann_98]

So hyped for Knies

Anyone know if he’ll be playing in the WJHC this August? All players from the failed December tournament are eligible so I would assume he is but I haven’t read anything about Knies specifically

 

[hockeynorth]

Anyone know if he’ll be playing in the WJHC this August? All players from the failed December tournament are eligible so I would assume he is but I haven’t read anything about Knies specifically

I'd say almost definitely

My hope is Voit and Tverberg can also somehow crack the roster

 

[Twine Tickler]

Malgin was invisible in his first go round. I’m not swayed by a few good performances on big ice. I think it’s much more likely they try to re sign Mikheyev.

Although I do believe Malgin would be an intriguing camp invite, I tend to agree with your assessment as well. He profiles very similarly to Nic Petan in terms of output and style of play. Both are elite lower level players, but they both have deficiencies that have prevented them from being everyday NHL'ers.

I cannot see a fit for Denis in our bottom 6, and I really am not sure he'd move the needle enough in the top 6 either. His skill is there, but I just don't know if its enough TBH. I actually think the likes of Steeves, Douglas, Anderson, Holmberg and Robertson all have a better chance at making our roster over Denis TBH.

Again, I would bring him in for a trial at camp in our top 6. Similarly to the way we did with Nikita Gusev last season. He'd have to be borderline special to make the squad in our top-6, but I guess that's not completely out of the realm of possibilities I suppose. Time will tell.

Like you suggested, I'd much rather find a way to keep Micheyev than trial Malgin

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Malgin was invisible in his first go round. I’m not swayed by a few good performances on big ice. I think it’s much more likely they try to re sign Mikheyev.

Marchment was a liability in his 4 games here, yet we hear constant whining about "not giving him more of a chance". What is the threshold, because we gave Malgin 8 games and he looked a lot better than Marchment ever did (and Malgin is still younger than Marchment was when we gave him that chance), yet there have been a lot of people convinced that Malgin is a bust.

It is also not just a few good performances. It is a few performances which have made him one of the top performers in a tournament consisting of some high end NHLers on top of 2 years where he has been one of the best players in Europe.

That is not to say he is better than Hischier and Meier even though he is arguably outplaying both on the same team right now, but I think it does say he is worth another legitimate look in the NHL. Whether that is with the Leafs or another team we can trade his rights to for a pick, that remains to be seen.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Although I do believe Malgin would be an intriguing camp invite, I tend to agree with your assessment as well. He profiles very similarly to Nic Petan in terms of output and style of play. Both are elite lower level players, but they both have deficiencies that have prevented them from being everyday NHL'ers.

I cannot see a fit for Denis in our bottom 6, and I really am not sure he'd move the needle enough in the top 6 either. His skill is there, but I just don't know if its enough TBH. I actually think the likes of Steeves, Douglas, Anderson, Holmberg and Robertson all have a better chance at making our roster over Denis TBH.

Again, I would bring him in for a trial at camp in our top 6. Similarly to the way we did with Nikita Gusev last season. He'd have to be borderline special to make the squad in our top-6, but I guess that's not completely out of the realm of possibilities I suppose. Time will tell.

Like you suggested, I'd much rather find a way to keep Micheyev than trial Malgin

Malgin is a significantly better skater than Petan. Malgin would skate circles around Petan, and it is arguably his greatest strength.

The thing holding Malgin back was mostly his lack of strength. His shot had accuracy, bu it didn't always have a ton of power. He needed to pick a corner or find a hole. He wasn't able to win puck battles or faceoffs nor was he able to drive the net very well, even though he brought the effort. He was an average defensive player. Add that all together with not having elite playmaking ability or hands and there is just not enough there to justify a role for him.

He has worked on that though. His shot has more zip. I think he has beefed up to become more effective in tight areas. He looks faster and stronger on his skates.

Mikheyev is likely gone. He priced himself out. Malgin will still be cheap. He may not be Mikheyev (he may be better than Mikheyev), but he still provides depth scoring and an improved enough defensive game to justify using him in at least a bottom 6 scoring role and maybe giving him some PK minutes.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Marchment was a liability in his 4 games here, yet we hear constant whining about "not giving him more of a chance". What is the threshold, because we gave Malgin 8 games and he looked a lot better than Marchment ever did (and Malgin is still younger than Marchment was when we gave him that chance), yet there have been a lot of people convinced that Malgin is a bust.

It is also not just a few good performances. It is a few performances which have made him one of the top performers in a tournament consisting of some high end NHLers on top of 2 years where he has been one of the best players in Europe.

That is not to say he is better than Hischier and Meier even though he is arguably outplaying both on the same team right now, but I think it does say he is worth another legitimate look in the NHL. Whether that is with the Leafs or another team we can trade his rights to for a pick, that remains to be seen.

Apparently my comment about "Big Ice" escaped you. The European game is different with considerably more space for players to operate and less body contact. Obviously Malgin is very comfortable over there but he was a fish out of water in NA. Some players just can't perform when outside their comfort zone. See the leafs in game 7's as an example.

Marchment played well in Toronto and was obviously a late bloomer. Dubas just doesn't like the tough crash and bang players.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Apparently my comment about "Big Ice" escaped you. The European game is different with considerably more space for players to operate and less body contact. Obviously Malgin is very comfortable over there but he was a fish out of water in NA. Some players just can't perform when outside their comfort zone. See the leafs in game 7's as an example.

Marchment played well in Toronto and was obviously a late bloomer. Dubas just doesn't like the tough crash and bang players.

You said a "few big performances on big ice". It is a lot more than a "few big performances". It is "2 seasons worth of big performances on big ice". There are also a lot of guys who move from Europe to the NHL and have success; even guys who seem like they are only made for big ice.

Besides, IIHF is on NHL-size rinks this year.

As of 2022 - World Championships to be played on NHL-size rinks

At the congress in Rome, the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) has voted to play the World Championships on NHL-size rinks as of 2022.

swisshockeynews.ch

As for your last statements, that is matter of opinion and somewhat factually untrue as well. Dubas was the guy who brought in Marchment in the first place. He has brought in various guys who have that crash-and-bang style, even if they are not large, and has even brought in guys who were transformed from pure playmakers into those types. Dubas just wants guys who can skate and bring more value than crash-and-bang, because believe it or not, guys who just crash-and-bang don't have much of a place in the NHL anymore. You have a few leftovers who are usually in their 30's now (i.e. Simmonds, Reaves, and Maroon), but if you can't skate, score, provide defensive value, etc. then most teams don't really care if you are a big, mean guy. Marchment struggled to bring many of those things, and his skating was especially concerning. Korshkov actually brought some defensive value to the table, and had better raw offensive ability. One was able to find a way to work out. The other (so far) has not. 9/10, a guy like Marchment turns into another Korshkov. Dubas is not losing sleep or worrying about the odd guy who can turn into a late bloomer with another team, especially when he gets a guy who has a profile that has turned out to be successful in the NHL (and especially here) far more often.

 

[deprw]

Besides, IIHF is on NHL-size rinks this year.

Actually it isn't, because of Russians owning Hartwall Arena where those games in Helsinki should have been played. They moved those games to older arena that can't be converted to NHL size, so they didn't convert Nokia Areena and all games are played in European size rinks. You can blame Putin also for that.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Actually it isn't, because of Russians owning Hartwall Arena where those games in Helsinki should have been played. They moved those games to older arena that can't be converted to NHL size, so they didn't convert Nokia Areena and all games are played in European size rinks. You can blame Putin also for that.

Interesting. The games I watched, the arenas really did not look any bigger and I guess I just assumed they weren't when they said they were going to be NHL size. Maybe it is the camera angle, but the ice looked smaller than when I watched European games.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[SeaOfBlue]

""

He should have had 2 assists, or do they not count secondary assists? He won a draw clean for the 3rd goal and would have been secondary on that one, and he was a primary assist on the 5th goal.

 

[horner]

How many guys like Simmonds do you need on your team?

Are they easier to sign as a free agent than a Bunting?

I will never understand people who want to draft low-skilled players who can fight or hit, just sign those guys.

Tanner Jeannot perfect example of a personal we need and should be looking for.
Undrafted crazy
Don't know why we didn't sign him as a fFA.
Probably his cousin wasn't good lol.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Tanner Jeannot perfect example of a personal we need and should be looking for.
Undrafted crazy
Don't know why we didn't sign him as a fFA.
Probably his cousin wasn't good lol.

I think the WHL is a bit of a weak spot in terms of our scouting team. We have had more in the past, but right now I believe we only have 2: Garth Malarchuk (who has been here for almost as long as Keefe and Dubas have been alive) and Darren Ritchie, whom we just hired at the beginning of this season. Speltz was also there, but he left for Vegas at the beginning of this year. He was our "head scout" for a few years though, so he may have had more responsibilities than just the WHL anyways. We have rotated through our WHL scouts a fair bit.

The Leafs haven't picked up much from the WHL over the past few regimes now, and the ones who have been picked have generally been bad. Riley Stotts was the worst pick in Dubas' tenure so far. Nielsen, Bobylev, Walker, Valiev totally flopped. Brooks was 'meh'. Kral and Scott look like the best things that have come out of the WHL for the Leafs since Rielly (if we excuse Scott's unfortunate injury history), but they also played for teams where we had scouts with direct connections to the players (Dale Derkatch drafted Scott into the WHL, while Speltz was a long time Spokane GM and is a partial owner of the team).

And then in terms of AHL contracts, we have had a few but the best we've picked up are a couple of semi-decent bottom 6 AHLers like Elynuik.

Our main hope right now is Darren Ritchie, who was Director of Scouting for Brandon when they drafted NHL draft picks Ridly Greig, Vincent Iorio, and Jake Chiasson plus 2023 top prospect Nate Danielson, can turn things around for us out West. IDK when Malarchuk is finally going to retire/leave, because he has been here for 30+ years and must have something to hold over us at this point, but it may be time for a fresh perspective in there.

 

[horner]

I think the WHL is a bit of a weak spot in terms of our scouting team. We have had more in the past, but right now I believe we only have 2: Garth Malarchuk (who has been here for almost as long as Keefe and Dubas have been alive) and Darren Ritchie, whom we just hired at the beginning of this season. Speltz was also there, but he left for Vegas at the beginning of this year. He was our "head scout" for a few years though, so he may have had more responsibilities than just the WHL anyways. We have rotated through our WHL scouts a fair bit.

The Leafs haven't picked up much from the WHL over the past few regimes now, and the ones who have been picked have generally been bad. Riley Stotts was the worst pick in Dubas' tenure so far. Nielsen, Bobylev, Walker, Valiev totally flopped. Brooks was 'meh'. Kral and Scott look like the best things that have come out of the WHL for the Leafs since Rielly (if we excuse Scott's unfortunate injury history), but they also played for teams where we had scouts with direct connections to the players (Dale Derkatch drafted Scott into the WHL, while Speltz was a long time Spokane GM and is a partial owner of the team).

And then in terms of AHL contracts, we have had a few but the best we've picked up are a couple of semi-decent bottom 6 AHLers like Elynuik.

Our main hope right now is Darren Ritchie, who was Director of Scouting for Brandon when they drafted NHL draft picks Ridly Greig, Vincent Iorio, and Jake Chiasson plus 2023 top prospect Nate Danielson, can turn things around for us out West. IDK when Malarchuk is finally going to retire/leave, because he has been here for 30+ years and must have something to hold over us at this point, but it may be time for a fresh perspective in there.

Money should never be an issue with this team.the WHL has always produce tough son of a birches a hard league. These players have also been through the grind traveling.
Picking off the best scouts shouldn't be a problem for us.
Missing out of one Jeannot is enough.
How many scouts should we have out west.

 

[deprw]

Interesting. The games I watched, the arenas really did not look any bigger and I guess I just assumed they weren't when they said they were going to be NHL size. Maybe it is the camera angle, but the ice looked smaller than when I watched European games.

Well that older Helsinki arena is the smallest one width wise in Finland, because HIFK identifies to NA play style. You can make it any smaller though. So probably Tampere matches that rink size, but it's still European rink. NHL players have commented that there is more room and if you have the puck it's easier to keep it. Would have preferred that NHL size rink, but can't do anything about that war and sanctions.

 

[RoadWarrior]

You said a "few big performances on big ice". It is a lot more than a "few big performances". It is "2 seasons worth of big performances on big ice". There are also a lot of guys who move from Europe to the NHL and have success; even guys who seem like they are only made for big ice.

Besides, IIHF is on NHL-size rinks this year.

As of 2022 - World Championships to be played on NHL-size rinks

At the congress in Rome, the International Ice Hockey Federation (IIHF) has voted to play the World Championships on NHL-size rinks as of 2022.

swisshockeynews.ch

As for your last statements, that is matter of opinion and somewhat factually untrue as well. Dubas was the guy who brought in Marchment in the first place. He has brought in various guys who have that crash-and-bang style, even if they are not large, and has even brought in guys who were transformed from pure playmakers into those types. Dubas just wants guys who can skate and bring more value than crash-and-bang, because believe it or not, guys who just crash-and-bang don't have much of a place in the NHL anymore. You have a few leftovers who are usually in their 30's now (i.e. Simmonds, Reaves, and Maroon), but if you can't skate, score, provide defensive value, etc. then most teams don't really care if you are a big, mean guy. Marchment struggled to bring many of those things, and his skating was especially concerning. Korshkov actually brought some defensive value to the table, and had better raw offensive ability. One was able to find a way to work out. The other (so far) has not. 9/10, a guy like Marchment turns into another Korshkov. Dubas is not losing sleep or worrying about the odd guy who can turn into a late bloomer with another team, especially when he gets a guy who has a profile that has turned out to be successful in the NHL (and especially here) far more often.

Dave Andreychuck and Zdeno Chara could barely skate yet were amongst the best players in the league every year.

Skating is critical for the smaller guys but for the big players it's less critical.

Dubas simply underestimated Marchment as a player.

 

[notbias]

Dave Andreychuck and Zdeno Chara could barely skate yet were amongst the best players in the league every year.

Skating is critical for the smaller guys but for the big players it's less critical.

Dubas simply underestimated Marchment as a player.

He developed into a better player.. he wasn't good. He had to earn a spot in Florida too, he wasn't on their NHL roster right away.

 

[kerk]

marchment was bad in toronto and anyone saying otherwise is rewriting history

 

[Leafs1991]

Money should never be an issue with this team.the WHL has always produce tough son of a birches a hard league. These players have also been through the grind traveling.
Picking off the best scouts shouldn't be a problem for us.
Missing out of one Jeannot is enough.
How many scouts should we have out west.

Well, he had 80 points in his OA year, in other words, he didn't show much at all in junior.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Well, he had 80 points in his OA year, in other words, he didn't show much at all in junior.

40 goals is fairly impressive though, and he won a few awards for work ethic, but at the same time, it is not entirely common for a guy like him to work out. It is kind of like Hyman... Mostly mediocre for his junior career, had a huge final year with skilled players, and then was able to continue it as a pro. Not many guys can do it but sometimes it does happen.

Sometimes it comes down to development too. You can look at his AHL career and he was mostly underwhelming as well. He was a 0.5 PPG player and even started the year in the ECHL the same year he finally cracked the NHL lineup.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Dave Andreychuck and Zdeno Chara could barely skate yet were amongst the best players in the league every year.

Skating is critical for the smaller guys but for the big players it's less critical.

Dubas simply underestimated Marchment as a player.

Imagine watching hockey in the past decade and genuinely thinking this is true.

You used an example of a guy who hasn't played in almost 2 decades, when there were a lot more slow players across the league, and then a guy who can write a book on how to position himself and leverage his reach to make up for his skating, which wasn't even all that bad for much of his career. Sure, if all big players had Chara's IQ and reach combination, then there would be a lot more big guys in the NHL right now. And even Chara was getting burned when the league started getting faster and he started getting slower. If a guy in his prime was as fast as Chara was in his mid-30's, he wouldn't be making the NHL.

It is all revisionist history now. I didn't hear too much whining when the Leafs moved Ritchie, a similar player with a better track record and couldn't make it work here. I didn't hear much complaining about the Leafs moving Korshkov for Galchenyuk, or when the Leafs moved Andrew Nielsen, or when the various other fridges we have had over the years have continuously failed because they didn't have the skating or IQ to make it.

And I would bet if Marchment became Cheechoo 2.0 and failed to live up to his next contract, we would hear crickets from the "Marchment is great" crowd too. It already happened last year when Marchment came out hot for the first 10 games and then was hot garbage for the last 20+ games of the season. Or do we think that Marchment is going to have another season where has a better ES PTS/60 than McDavid, Matthews, and pretty much every other top player?

Dubas didn't underestimate his skill. But obviously that is just going to over your head again so I am not going to waste my time explaining it again.

 

[Leafs1991]

40 goals is fairly impressive though, and he won a few awards for work ethic, but at the same time, it is not entirely common for a guy like him to work out. It is kind of like Hyman... Mostly mediocre for his junior career, had a huge final year with skilled players, and then was able to continue it as a pro. Not many guys can do it but sometimes it does happen.

Sometimes it comes down to development too. You can look at his AHL career and he was mostly underwhelming as well. He was a 0.5 PPG player and even started the year in the ECHL the same year he finally cracked the NHL lineup.

Sure, but many OAs have done that before and haven't suceeded at the NHL level either. It's hard to look at hese players and think they will be successful. It's still very hard to project players in hockey.

 

[Duke16]

Still quite a few interesting names that aren't signed by the teams who drafted them whose rights expire in about a week.

Ruslan Iskhakov, Linus Karlsson, Ryan Francis, Connor McClennon, Linus Oberg, Declan McDonnell.

The first two in particular have some very solid years in Europe to their name, but I could see both getting deals done ahead of June 1st.

 

[leafers]

Dubas took over the draft board in 2018, and even then he only had a few weeks to toss it together.

In that draft, he picked Sandin (in the NHL full time), Durzi (in the NHL full time), Holmberg (could be in the NHL full time next year), and Kral (a 6'2", 200lbs defenseman who needs another year but could challenge for a bottom pairing job the year after). SDA and Hollowell are 'meh' but we will see with SDA especially, and Stotts/Kizimov/Bouthillier are busts/likely busts.

The next year, we have Robertson who has been knocking on the NHL for years and could end up as a full time NHLer this year. Abruzzese is also knocking on the door. Abramov, Koster, and Kokkonen have progressed well. Kokkonen may only be a year away himself. That was 3 years ago.

Amirov was unfortunate. We couldn't predict that, but we have Hirvonen and Niemela who look a year or two away. Villeneuve, Miettinen, Tverberg are all progressing extremely well. We'll see about the rest.

And then last year, we have Matthew Knies who was a realistic consideration for a top 6 NHL job as a D+1 despite being a late 2nd round pick. And as a bonus, we added a two-way forward in the 5th round who was a top 20 OHL scorer despite having 20+ more points than the next best guy on his team and was 6th in OHL U19 scoring.

That doesn't include the UFA's he developed either. Trevor Moore, Justin Holl, Mason Marchment, Alex Steeves. I won't count Curtis Douglas because Dubas is no longer in charge of the Marlies.

Just out of the guys he has drafted in the last 4 years, we are talking about 2 full time NHLers with top 4 upside, another 3 who are going to be competing for full time jobs this September (and a 4th who would have competed if he didn't want to go back to the NCAA for another year), and then another 5 or 6 who could realistically compete for an NHL job in the next year or two? And he did that with only 2 top round picks (one of which is suffering from a brain tumor right now). Short of a team like Detroit who has numerous top picks every year due to being in a rebuild, where exactly is the grass greener right now when it comes to drafting and developing young talent?

Just look at the Leafs between 2015-2017. It has been more than half a decade and what do we have to show for it? Marner/Matthews obviously. But beyond them? Liljegren is really it. Grundstrom was solid too. Dermott was traded for less than his pick. Woll might still turn into something, and Scott was screwed by injuries. Brooks and Middleton are decent AAAA options. The rest are complete busts who are not even close to NHLers right now, and there were some high 2nd and 3rd round picks in there.

Any update on Amirov and his recovery?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Any update on Amirov and his recovery?

Probably still skating and doing skill work, but nothing extenuating.

If all goes well, he may be able to play by the end of the year some time. He may not need to miss a whole season.