Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - Who ordered a taxi?

[The Iceman]

If the Leafs really wanted to protect Dermott, they'd just protect him over Holl. If they take Holl, we can replace him internally or through UFA and then we can move Kerfoot for a pick for the salary relief. If they take Kerfoot, our defense is pretty much set with what we already have.

Leafs can move Engvall for a mid-round pick. Same with Malgin. Then we just go bargain bin hunting or hopefully pick up Okulov.

They are definitely not paying a 2nd for Seattle to take the guy they should be taking anyways (Kerfoot). Not when we already don't have many picks the next two years.

Most undrafted KHL players have major warts that seem to go unexposed while playing in the K
Lehtonen
Grigoriko and Barabanov have done nothing this season to change my mind.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Most undrafted KHL players have major warts that seem to go unexposed while playing in the K
Lehtonen
Grigoriko and Barabanov have done nothing this season to change my mind.

There are a few things I would note about Okulov vs. those other guys.

1) None of them had a training camp to be able to properly adjust to North America, never mind the NHL (Grigorenko has played NA before but it had been a few years; although I didn't have the highest expectations for him anyways). I think Barabanov and Lehtonen perform better if they had that proper adjustment period. Okulov will have that opportunity to adjust.

2) Grigorenko and Barabanov were benefitting from line mates that made them better than they were (Gusev for Barabanov; Kaprizov for Grigorenko). Okulov was the centerpiece of his team that was one game away from winning the Garagin Cup.

3) It depends on your expectations. I have Okulov penciled in a bottom 6 on a scoring line with Spezza and Simmonds (assuming both are back) next year with the potential to play top 6 if he impresses. 2PP minutes as well. I think he can fill that role, and if he doesn't, the Leafs should have a few guys on the Marlies who can easily step in right away (i.e. Brooks), just like they did with Barabanov when he wasn't ready to step in. The main thing is that he is cheap depth with the potential to explode if he does well. If he doesn't, then he is just like every other failed bargain bin guy and we have the next guy ready to step up and take his place.

 

[Atomos2]

Gogolev has stood out in this game

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I originally had McCourt and Hoefenmayer as potential 7/8 depth guys for the Marlies next year. I think they may need a full year in the ECHL to work out their defensive games. It is not pretty for either of them.

When the Marlies will already have Hollowell, Duszak, Kivihalme, and Rubins, we aren't going to be able to keep the puck out of our net.

And it is not even like many of these guys are scoring. Outside of Duszak and Kivihalme, none of these guys are even good offensively. So they are bad offensive defenseman, which is the most useless type of defenseman that exists.

 

[Todd03]

Marlies line up right now is very weak. Hopefully real top prospects come next year.
And robertson is very over rated.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Brodie with Sandin is music to my eyes

 

[The Iceman]

Marlies line up right now is very weak. Hopefully real top prospects come next year.
And robertson is very over rated.

Need to take a step back in the evaluation.
This kid is underage for the AHL. If it wasn't for the COVID rules he would not be allowed to play in the AHL.
Add to this he is undersized.

He scored his 50th goal in Peterborough in his 43 game.
To put into perspective just how impressive Robertson’s 2019-20 season was, consider that he finished the year with the seventh-highest goals-per-game rate in OHL history. That’s higher than Patrick Kane and current teammate John Tavares. In terms of players 18 or younger, Robertson’s total was the third-best ever, behind only Tony Tanti and Eric Lindros.

Maybe lets wait until he is an old player of 23 before deciding if he is over rated.

 

[nuck]

Need to take a step back in the evaluation.
This kid is underage for the AHL. If it wasn't for the COVID rules he would not be allowed to play in the AHL.
Add to this he is undersized.

He scored his 50th goal in Peterborough in his 43 game.
To put into perspective just how impressive Robertson’s 2019-20 season was, consider that he finished the year with the seventh-highest goals-per-game rate in OHL history. That’s higher than Patrick Kane and current teammate John Tavares. In terms of players 18 or younger, Robertson’s total was the third-best ever, behind only Tony Tanti and Eric Lindros.

Maybe lets wait until he is an old player of 23 before deciding if he is over rated.

Did he mean over rated as a player today or over rated as a prospect . There are a bunch of vocal posters here who have been saying for months Nick is ready to bump various vets off the roster right immediately, and he really hasn't shown that much, except he keeps up. The Oilers kept Draisaitl up for half a season because he could keep up but he wasn't ready. Nick scored at will in Junior but not yet as a pro and while he has looked good in the AHL a bunch of underagers have been as good or better and they aren't all ready for the show either.

Great prospect for sure. Similar AHL numbers so far to 19 year old Kapy.

 

[Todd03]

When i say over rated i'm mean should not be in nhl or ahl not ready for either.
And if not for last 14 months of hell he would be with the growlers or his ohl team.
And his ahl coach sucks. Misusing the whole roster. Just because he got 50 goals in the ohl means nothing in the ahl or nhl.

 

[LeafChief]

When i say over rated i'm mean should not be in nhl or ahl not ready for either.
And if not for last 14 months of hell he would be with the growlers or his ohl team.
And his ahl coach sucks. Misusing the whole roster. Just because he got 50 goals in the ohl means nothing in the ahl or nhl.

He has 11 points in 15 games as an underager in the AHL. I'd say he's exactly where he needs to be to continue his development.

Marlies are about to play 13 games in 20 days (including last night's game). He's about to get a lot of hockey in.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

When i say over rated i'm mean should not be in nhl or ahl not ready for either.
And if not for last 14 months of hell he would be with the growlers or his ohl team.
And his ahl coach sucks. Misusing the whole roster. Just because he got 50 goals in the ohl means nothing in the ahl or nhl.

He is one of the best AHLers in his age group, and is performing well with arguably the worst team in the AHL. Unless your argument is that U20 players in general should not be in the AHL, then IDK what exactly your are saying. He's doing about as well as guys like Perfetti, etc. and he is only 3 months older than Perfetti.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kokkonen makes his AHL debut and gets caught in a bad pinch on his first play.

At least the defense should be semi-respectable today if Kapcheck and Kokkonen don't suck, and the Kral/Duszak pairing are not bad.

 

[Griffin76]

For anybody that's missing Marincin he's in the game today.

 

[Prominence]

Marlies got scored against twice on the pp.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

4 goals on 11 shots against for Vehvilainen... And what really sucks is that none of them were particularly weak. Like Woll he probably could have done better on one or two of them but the Marlies just look completely lost more often than not. Especially on defense.

Regardless of what happens to Moore, they need a major overhaul on the back end next year, and they need to find the right guys to compliment the new forward prospects next year.

 

[supermann_98]

For anybody that's missing Marincin he's in the game today.

Thanks man I saw the 4-1 score and was gonna just tune out but knowing he's playing I will continue to watch

 

[Knies iT]

Marlies team is rotten from top-to-bottom.

I have no idea how Kossila produces any points in this league because he is God awful. Can't skate, can't think, yet gets fed every opportunity by Moore. Just ran face first into Robertson on the PP with nobody else within 20 feet of them.

The entire veteran group needs to be gutted and replaced. Find other veterans that actually complement your lineup and work well with the young prospects instead of misfit pluggers with tunnel vision and low-skill.

Revamp the blueline so it's not composed of one-dimensional, undersized defenders or ECHLers.

Do not dress all of Green, McKenna, Robertson, Duszak, Petan, Kapcheck, etc. in the same game. Smallest team they've iced in some time, no surprise they get completely manhandled physically.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Villeneuve looks good so far tonight. Scored a goal and broke up a pass in front of his net.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Marlies team is rotten from top-to-bottom.

I have no idea how Kossila produces any points in this league because he is God awful. Can't skate, can't think, yet gets fed every opportunity by Moore. Just ran face first into Robertson on the PP with nobody else within 20 feet of them.

The entire veteran group needs to be gutted and replaced. Find other veterans that actually complement your lineup and work well with the young prospects instead of misfit pluggers with tunnel vision and low-skill.

Revamp the blueline so it's not composed of one-dimensional, undersized defenders or ECHLers.

Do not dress all of Green, McKenna, Robertson, Duszak, Petan, Kapcheck, etc. in the same game. Smallest team they've iced in some time, no surprise they get completely manhandled physically.

Size is not even my main concern with the group. The guys just can't even play most nights. They look lost and can hardly even string basic plays together.

I would say this team needs three new quality veterans up front (in addition to bringing Petan and Gaudet back) and three new quality veterans on defense (although one defenseman could be an AHL contract).

I'd be fine with re-signing Marincin to be in the top 4 LD along with Sandin and then re-sign Noesen to replace Joey Anderson. The rest I would source externally.

LW Nick Robertson – C Adam Brooks – RW Stefan Noesen
LW ??? – C Semyon Der-Arguchintsev – RW Nic Petan
LW Filip Hallander – C Tyler Gaudet – RW Alex Steeves
LW ??? – C Mikhail Abramov – RW Jeremy McKenna
LW Rich Clune - C Hudson Elynuik - RW Justin Brazeau
RW Scott Sabourin

LD Rasmus Sandin – RD ???
LD Martin Marincin – RD Mac Hollowell
LD Filip Kral – RD Joseph Duszak
LD Noel Hoefenmayer – RD ???

G Michael Hutchinson - G Veini Vehvilainen/Joseph Woll

--
LW Pavel Gogolev – C Bobby McMann – RW Gordie Green
LW ??? – C ??? - RW ???
LW ??? – C ??? – RW ???
10th Todd Skirving
C Mark Tremaine

LD Sergei Sapego - RD Brennan Kapcheck
LD Riley McCourt - RD James Melindy
LD ??? - RD ???

G Ian Scott - G Maxim Zhukov

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Did he mean over rated as a player today or over rated as a prospect . There are a bunch of vocal posters here who have been saying for months Nick is ready to bump various vets off the roster right immediately, and he really hasn't shown that much, except he keeps up. The Oilers kept Draisaitl up for half a season because he could keep up but he wasn't ready. Nick scored at will in Junior but not yet as a pro and while he has looked good in the AHL a bunch of underagers have been as good or better and they aren't all ready for the show either.

Great prospect for sure. Similar AHL numbers so far to 19 year old Kapy.

Kapanen had a 0.568 PPG as a 19 year old. Robertson is currently at 0.75 PPG. If he keeps it up the rest he'll be one of only 21 players to put up that type of production with at least 20 games played.

Some guys fizzle put, but most have turned into excellent NHL players. Filip Forsberg/Kevin Fiala/Jack Roslovic are three guys that have produced similarly in their age 19 seasons.

 

[The Iceman]

Size is not even my main concern with the group. The guys just can't even play most nights. They look lost and can hardly even string basic plays together.

I would say this team needs three new quality veterans up front (in addition to bringing Petan and Gaudet back) and three new quality veterans on defense (although one defenseman could be an AHL contract).

I'd be fine with re-signing Marincin to be in the top 4 LD along with Sandin and then re-sign Noesen to replace Joey Anderson. The rest I would source externally.

LW Nick Robertson – C Adam Brooks – RW Stefan Noesen
LW ??? – C Semyon Der-Arguchintsev – RW Nic Petan
LW Filip Hallander – C Tyler Gaudet – RW Alex Steeves
LW ??? – C Mikhail Abramov – RW Jeremy McKenna
LW Rich Clune - C Hudson Elynuik - RW Justin Brazeau
RW Scott Sabourin

LD Rasmus Sandin – RD ???
LD Martin Marincin – RD Mac Hollowell
LD Filip Kral – RD Joseph Duszak
LD Noel Hoefenmayer – RD ???

G Michael Hutchinson - G Veini Vehvilainen/Joseph Woll

--
LW Pavel Gogolev – C Bobby McMann – RW Gordie Green
LW ??? – C ??? - RW ???
LW ??? – C ??? – RW ???
10th Todd Skirving
C Mark Tremaine

LD Sergei Sapego - RD Brennan Kapcheck
LD Riley McCourt - RD James Melindy
LD ??? - RD ???

G Ian Scott - G Maxim Zhukov

Do you have Sandin back with the Marlies next season and Lily up with the big club?

Personally I think Brooks is to Keefe what Hyman was to Babs. Could be wrong though. When I watch Brooks all I see is a Greg McKegg/Sam Carrick.

And have you seen enough of Rubins that you think that the team will cut bait with him?

 

[Leafs1991]

Do you have Sandin back with the Marlies next season and Lily up with the big club?

Personally I think Brooks is to Keefe what Hyman was to Babs. Could be wrong though. When I watch Brooks all I see is a Greg McKegg/Sam Carrick.

And have you seen enough of Rubins that you think that the team will cut bait with him?

Ya, Brooks skating doesn't appeal to me but after seeing some late bloomers take off in recent years in the NHL I'm willing to wait and give Brooks a couple years to develop

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Hopefully Robertson uses this offseason to work on his strength - I can see him starting with the Marlies again, hopefully his lights it up and makes the most of his opportunities when he gets called up

 

[Twine Tickler]

I've been saying Robertson's skating was his weakest point of his game all year. I really don't think it has anything to do with his size or strength. You see players his size in the NHL have no issues. He needs to change his skating stride IMO. Way to low, and it puts him off balance. He doesn't just fall easy in contact, he blows tires on his own very regularly. Very similar to Mason Raymond back in the day. Just can't stay upright. He will 100% need to figure this out before he gets to the next level, because its been a very noticeable weakness all year. I have watched about half of his Marlies games this year, and all of his leaf games and came away with that assessment in about 90% of the games I have watched. I think anyone who thinks this kid is overrated at the age of 19 clearly knows nothing about hockey lol. In an "off year" he's still putting up 0.75pts/game. Not to mention his coach doesn't ride him like a typical star player like for example Caulfield was in his 2 games with Laval. This kid is a boy playing in a mans league, and had sustained a semi-serious leg injury to start the year. Nick is very professional, and extremely motivated. There is no way they have not already spoken to him about this, and there is no way he wont work on this in the offseason. Would I have loved for him to dominate at the AHL/NHL level this year? ya for sure. But he just isn't there yet. Key word is yet. He will be more than fine

 

[Jeypic]

I've been saying Robertson's skating was his weakest point of his game all year. I really don't think it has anything to do with his size or strength. You see players his size in the NHL have no issues. He needs to change his skating stride IMO. Way to low, and it puts him off balance. He doesn't just fall easy in contact, he blows tires on his own very regularly. Very similar to Mason Raymond back in the day. Just can't stay upright. He will 100% need to figure this out before he gets to the next level, because its been a very noticeable weakness all year. I have watched about half of his Marlies games this year, and all of his leaf games and came away with that assessment in about 90% of the games I have watched. I think anyone who thinks this kid is overrated at the age of 19 clearly knows nothing about hockey lol. In an "off year" he's still putting up 0.75pts/game. Not to mention his coach doesn't ride him like a typical star player like for example Caulfield was in his 2 games with Laval. This kid is a boy playing in a mans league, and had sustained a semi-serious leg injury to start the year. Nick is very professional, and extremely motivated. There is no way they have not already spoken to him about this, and there is no way he wont work on this in the offseason. Would I have loved for him to dominate at the AHL/NHL level this year? ya for sure. But he just isn't there yet. Key word is yet. He will be more than fine

Marner used to fall all the time too when he first started playing in the nhl. Robertson will be fine.