Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[LeafsFan89]

He deserves an NHL shot somewhere

I mean... Can he just replace Reaves on the 4th line lol?

 

[aingefan]

Three games this weekend for the Cyclones. I’ll be scoresheet watching.

BKressler up to a ppg in his 4 games down there.
Ty Voit up over .5ppg, would probably be better up with the Marlies as a facilitator. Dude’s gotta learn to shoot more, barely over a shot a game.
Chas Sharpe might be the next development story on D. Over .5ppg, minus coming down and a good sized RHD. On track to earn an ELC maybe before the year is out, though there’s not much pt to be had with the Marlies.

 

[fahad203]

It sucks cause I think he's an NHL player, but he's not a guy you can plug into the bottom 6 like McCann or Moore and still show out. He needs skilled players to play with, but you need to work your way up to that if you're not a top pick/prospect.

He's a bit like Chris Bourque. Really good for AHL, not really good enough for NHL. At least what he has shown so far

I still think he's better than Reaves on 4th line. He just needs a longer look

 

[aingefan]

Marlies had another rough game on the offensive side. Hoisted lotsa shots but didn’t park one til the 60th minute, 6-on-4.
They have a rough time with CLE. 119 minutes in a row without a goal.
Actually had the looks of a potential storybook ending. Down 2-0, the M’s pulled the goalie wirh 2+ minutes left. Applied some o-zone pressure, but lost possession. Monster gains control, clears the zone and rips a wrister into the empty cage. But! The whistle blew….Monster penalty behind the play lead to the PP which lead to the Marlies lone goal with ~30 seconds left.
Marlies had a couple great chances 6-5 in the last 30 seconds but just couldn’t bury one.
Almost epic.
Imagine the feeling on the dude that took the penalty as it unfolded.
Anyways, came up short. Monsters scored an empty netter at 19:59.5.
AA was real solid, stopping 25 of 27 with one goal a crazy fluke deflection off feet.
No one really stood out.
Goal was ALexStyles from Topi and NickyZZTop.

 

[aingefan]

Growlers weekend summary:
Friday> 3-2 road win
Kressler 1g/1a, Voit 2a, Sharpe 1a, Peksa: 28/30 saves
Saturday> 3-2 home win….that’s b2b
Kressler 1g/1a, Voit 1eng, Sharpe 1a, McClearty 1a, Peksa DNP

 

[stickty111]

Growlers weekend summary:
Friday> 3-2 road win
Kressler 1g/1a, Voit 1a, Sharpe 1a, Peksa: 28/30 saves
Saturday> 3-2 home win….that’s b2b
Kressler 1g, Voit scoreless, Sharpe 1a, McClearty 1a, Peksa DNP

Voit scored an empty netter in yesterday's game.

 

[aingefan]

Voit scored an empty netter in yesterday's game.

Good catch, thanks.
Apple for BK too.
*summary post edited; turns out Voit was credited with a second assist on Friday too.

 

[aingefan]

Marlies had the Checkers again.

Villeneuve and Solow in; Tverberg and Miller out. Hirvonen didn’t suit up this weekend.

Matt Murray got the start.

Minten rifled one off the post early. Quillan with a beauty setup in the first Pare with a shorty for the 1-0 lead, assist to Webber.
Uncharacteristically strong first for Marlies, up 13-3 in shots.

Bizarro second for the Marlies, pretty lifeless. Monsters tie it up with a goal where the attacker went relatively untouched.

Steeves with a nice snipe on the PP in the third from WillyNeuve and Blandisi to take a 2-1 lead…which the Marlies promptly gave back on another untouched Monster goal. Then the Marlies cough up the lead playing 4-on-4. That was followed shortly by a retty careless giveaway by Alex Steeves at the blue line with the empty net.

4-2 loss.

Pretty uninspired game all around, Marlies better on the shot clock and overall possession, but Monsters were a bit more efficient. No one really stood out…Matt Murray was okay not great.

On to the next.

 

[aingefan]

Growlers weekend summary:
Friday> 3-2 road win
Kressler 1g/1a, Voit 2a, Sharpe 1a, Peksa: 28/30 saves
Saturday> 3-2 home win….that’s b2b
Kressler 1g/1a, Voit 1eng, Sharpe 1a, McClearty 1a, Peksa DNP
Sunday> 3-2 rod win….like deja vu all over again….b2b2b 3-2 wins
Sharpe 1g, Kressler pointless, Peksa 33/35, Voit/McCleary dnp

So, nice weekends for all the Leaf properties, especially the goalie. That’s a .939 save %over two games.

 

[AlienWorkShop]

Re: Steeves, he did clear waivers earlier in the year... but yeah, would be interesting to see him get a shot at a bottom-feeder, maybe next year. Has kept up his awesome AHL production, but have to assume the Leafs have their reasons for putting him in the AAAA box / probably needs a fresh start from somewhere that's willing/able to give him a shot at middle-6 NHL minutes.

10 points in 10 games for Voit, which is more like it. Coincides with Cincinnati actually playing ok for once. Generally down on him as a prospect (and let's keep in mind he was only a 5th rounder), but if he can bulk up (shoulder surgery probably set that back) and translate that OHL scoring pedigree to the AHL... who knows.

Kressler seems to have given them a boost too with 6 points in 6 games. He was always a bit of an odd signing as an UDFA - signed 4 years ago now! I suspect Leafs brass were looking to boost our prospect pool despite minimal draft picks and made a projection error for a player who didn't play at all in 2020-21 due to Covid. Perhaps a waste of a contract slot, but I'd argue that constraint is less binding than some assume (and there's plenty of cases of GMs happily helping each other out with minor trades when they do hit 50).

---

Marlies side note: Pietroniro traded to Rockford for 'future considerations', with no space for him on D. Had only played 5 games this year. AHL deal that petered out, no big deal, but just raising the curiosity of his family looking at his EP page: Matteo Pietroniro - Stats, Contract, Salary & More Father a Canadian-Italian who played in the Italian league for a bit, then coached in the minors/Q before running Bishop's prep school. Has four brothers, all of which played under their dad either in the Q or at the prep school and have taken advantage of their Italian citizenship to play in Italy. Matteo seemingly the most accomplished given his AHL time, so not exactly a Sutter-like family, but can admire a hockey-loving family or wouldn't be surprised if there's been some accusations of nepotism for a group of middling pro brothers

 

[Magic Man]

Most teams in the AHL have about 15 fighting majors so far.

The Marlies have 0 fighting majors.

Why is that even possible? Are they trying to set a record?

 

[aingefan]

Most teams in the AHL have about 15 fighting majors so far.

The Marlies have 0 fighting majors.

Why is that even possible? Are they trying to set a record?

That’s an interesting observation.
Main answer is probably that Cliffy was hurt to start the year.
Speaking of which, he’s due for a crazy pants kinda game where he loses all rationale control.
I can’t even really think of who else *might* fight.

 

[Gilmour1996]

That’s an interesting observation.
Main answer is probably that Cliffy was hurt to start the year.
Speaking of which, he’s due for a crazy pants kinda game where he loses all rationale control.
I can’t even really think of who else *might* fight.

Most teams in the AHL have about 15 fighting majors so far.

The Marlies have 0 fighting majors.

Why is that even possible? Are they trying to set a record?

Is the Marlies' GM is really Ryan Hardy or Oliver Hardy?

 

[Svedu]

Are the latest stats telling the truth? Have anyone seen Niemelä and Hirvonen? Are they actually declining or regressing in the AHL?

 

[Fogelhund]

Are the latest stats telling the truth? Have anyone seen Niemelä and Hirvonen? Are they actually declining or regressing in the AHL?

From Jan 1st, 2025, by Josh Kloke

Once the high-water mark of the Leafs prospect pool, why isn’t Niemela in the NHL four years out from his stellar World Juniors?

“The very straightforward answer is strength and speed,” Maple Leafs assistant general manager Hayley Wickenheiser said.

Watching Niemela this season, too often he gets pushed off the puck while trying to execute creative hockey in the offensive zone. He has the smarts, and at 6 feet, Niemela isn’t tiny. But he hasn’t added enough requisite power in his frame and stride to help him drive play. And defensively, a lack of power has prevented him from making decisive defensive plays.

Now, adding size during the season is an uphill climb. But it’s hard not to sense the organization is starting to wonder whether Niemela can get his body NHL-ready. His on-ice responsibilities with the Marlies this season appear to have not taken a step, either.

“He’s really got to commit to getting his body to a place where he’s not going to get pushed off,” Wickenheiser said.

Niemela has the brain to play NHL games, but a change in managerial philosophy makes his long-term future in Toronto seem more in doubt than ever.

“The challenge is to try and rise up and make a very good hockey team,” Wickenheiser said. “It stacks the deck against some of the players, but I also think it’s a great opportunity: If you can continue to improve within the Marlies, there’s 31 other teams that are looking for players, too. If it doesn’t work out here, there may be an opportunity somewhere else.”

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There’s a consistency in his play. He’s engaged physically and bringing the puck to the centre of the ice more.

Hirvonen is in the last year of his entry-level contract. At 5-foot-10 and 179 pounds, the forward has shown this AHL season that his shot and work ethic could make him a bottom-six NHL fit.

Will those tools find a home in Toronto under this management group, or elsewhere?

“He will will himself to the NHL in some way, shape or form,” Wickenheiser said. “Whether it’s here or somewhere else, I don’t know. But he has an internal drive and desire to do all the things you should do, on and off the ice.”

 

[Twine Tickler]

There's going to be a heavy transition over the next year in terms of prospects and organization depth. It's already sort of happened with Treliving, but it will get even more transparent with a new scouting staff. I'd expect a lot of prospects let go/traded from the previous regime.

Niemela has been pretty solid with the Marlies, typically the Rielly of the team. But yeah his development has stalled.

it's a shame, as there was a time where I was very bullish on a player like Topi. As was the entire league for that matter. But I do think at this point there doesn't appear to be a clear path for him onto our roster in the near or even distant future.

I personally am starting to realize that I tend to grow too attatched to our homegrown prospects and consequently overvalue them from the jump. The list of players who have come and gone our organization where I felt like we were giving up the next Carter Verhage is getting longer by the day. Yet in the end, these players hardly ever amount to anything of considerable value.

Of course the afformentioned Verhage and Mason Marchment's/trevor moore's do exist. But for every example of those players, you have 10x more examples of the Josh Lievo, Timothy Liljegren, Adam Brooks, Filip Kral, Travis Dermott, Rasmis Sandin, Carl Grundstrom variety.

Sure some of those above players still play in the NHL and by all accounts are good players, but they were never the long term fits in our organization.

As hard as it is to move off from some of these guys at the peak of their excitement as a prospect, I really think we need to start doing that. Take the risk of losing a useful player for the future in order to fill a hole in our system now.

This is something I am slowly coming to terms with now. Not too long ago I thought the exact opposite.

At the end of the day, lets pretend we move on from a guy like Alex Steeves or Topi Niemela and they get a real shot somewhere else. Who cares really? They were never getting that same opportunity with us. May as well try and recover some usable asset for them while they still hold some value.

 

[Fogelhund]

I'm ok overcooking prospects, past their peak perceived value. Having that 1 in 10 player like Verhaeghe, Marchment, Moore, is worth it.... I mean, what are you going to get back on a Steeves, or Niemela? Another lottery ticket draft pick, or maybe they are a throw in as something useful, but certainly not the main piece. Even at their peak, you weren't getting a Grade A piece.

But having a player hit, and be useful is worth the risk.

 

[aingefan]

Are the latest stats telling the truth? Have anyone seen Niemelä and Hirvonen? Are they actually declining or regressing in the AHL?

Hirvonen’s production has upticked slightly I think, but it’s a balanced lineup.

Niemela has been good, easily their best puckmover, but the org is going in a different direction, and he’s not getting big minutes.

Plateaued, good AHLers is probably a fair description.

 

[ULF_55]

If the player doesn't fit the team's style trade him.

I'd be curious if Hutson would get a sniff from Berube / Treliving?

 

[Fogelhund]

If the player doesn't fit the team's style trade him.

I'd be curious if Hutson would get a sniff from Berube / Treliving?

That's a tough one. He certainly would not be getting 22 minutes a game in this org... Montreal lacks the D depth we have, so Montreal is the perfect spot for him. He'd likely be getting sheltered third line minutes at best... and that's not a knock on him at all, but a 20 year old, who has had challenges playing defensively at times, really isn't a Berube guy.... but that offense is really hard to ignore. In Montreal, he has the freedom to just play, as there isn't the pressure to perform as much, lower expectations.

 

[ULF_55]

That's a tough one. He certainly would not be getting 22 minutes a game in this org... Montreal lacks the D depth we have, so Montreal is the perfect spot for him. He'd likely be getting sheltered third line minutes at best... and that's not a knock on him at all, but a 20 year old, who has had challenges playing defensively at times, really isn't a Berube guy.... but that offense is really hard to ignore. In Montreal, he has the freedom to just play, as there isn't the pressure to perform as much, lower expectations.

Agree.

There is going to be growing pains with Hutson, but I get the impression he'll always come up short with the big, tall, long, truculent Burke player.

I know I'd take Hutson over anything on defense (maybe any position) in the Leafs system, and I was suspicious as heck to start the season.

 

[Stringer Bell]

If the player doesn't fit the team's style trade him.

I'd be curious if Hutson would get a sniff from Berube / Treliving?

Of course. Players like that, whether they fit your playstyle or not, are undeniable.

 

[Fogelhund]

Timmins as a mostly third pairing D, has 7 even strength points.
Hutson has 1.21 PTS/60..so given similar minutes, Hutson has 10 5v5 points... he probably doesn't get much PP time here at 20 yo.

I'm not knocking him in anyway... but Hutson at 10 points, sheltered, but still not great defensively... Hmm..

Montreal really is a perfect place for a kid like him.

 

[Magic Man]

That’s an interesting observation.
Main answer is probably that Cliffy was hurt to start the year.
Speaking of which, he’s due for a crazy pants kinda game where he loses all rationale control.
I can’t even really think of who else *might* fight.

There are a few that can do it. Solow, Benning, Grebenkin, Rifai, Webber is a big boy. I think the return of Dakota Mermis should help it along.

 

[Svedu]

From Jan 1st, 2025, by Josh Kloke

Once the high-water mark of the Leafs prospect pool, why isn’t Niemela in the NHL four years out from his stellar World Juniors?

“The very straightforward answer is strength and speed,” Maple Leafs assistant general manager Hayley Wickenheiser said.

Watching Niemela this season, too often he gets pushed off the puck while trying to execute creative hockey in the offensive zone. He has the smarts, and at 6 feet, Niemela isn’t tiny. But he hasn’t added enough requisite power in his frame and stride to help him drive play. And defensively, a lack of power has prevented him from making decisive defensive plays.

Now, adding size during the season is an uphill climb. But it’s hard not to sense the organization is starting to wonder whether Niemela can get his body NHL-ready. His on-ice responsibilities with the Marlies this season appear to have not taken a step, either.

“He’s really got to commit to getting his body to a place where he’s not going to get pushed off,” Wickenheiser said.

Niemela has the brain to play NHL games, but a change in managerial philosophy makes his long-term future in Toronto seem more in doubt than ever.

“The challenge is to try and rise up and make a very good hockey team,” Wickenheiser said. “It stacks the deck against some of the players, but I also think it’s a great opportunity: If you can continue to improve within the Marlies, there’s 31 other teams that are looking for players, too. If it doesn’t work out here, there may be an opportunity somewhere else.”

------------------------------------------------
There’s a consistency in his play. He’s engaged physically and bringing the puck to the centre of the ice more.

Hirvonen is in the last year of his entry-level contract. At 5-foot-10 and 179 pounds, the forward has shown this AHL season that his shot and work ethic could make him a bottom-six NHL fit.

Will those tools find a home in Toronto under this management group, or elsewhere?

“He will will himself to the NHL in some way, shape or form,” Wickenheiser said. “Whether it’s here or somewhere else, I don’t know. But he has an internal drive and desire to do all the things you should do, on and off the ice.”

Thank you very much! Appreciate this.