Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[andora]

I wonder if the league will make an exception and award us a comp pick since we signed him to help him for medical reasons and not to play.

Getting kind of sad but are there any other examples along these lines? Prospects who either fell ill or passed?

 

[The Iceman]

I wonder if the league will make an exception and award us a comp pick since we signed him to help him for medical reasons and not to play.

Is there a history of the league doing such a thing?
I thought I remembered the NYR asking for such when their Russian young prospect died from cardiac arrest but didn't get anything.

I could be wrong though.

 

[andora]

Is there a history of the league doing such a thing?
I thought I remembered the NYR asking for such when their Russian young prospect died from cardiac arrest but didn't get anything.

I could be wrong though.

Ohh cherepanov right.. yeah they didnt receive anything for that

Nor should a team imo i mean it is simply chance

 

[LaPlante94]

Is there a history of the league doing such a thing?
I thought I remembered the NYR asking for such when their Russian young prospect died from cardiac arrest but didn't get anything.

I could be wrong though.

Yeah no clue. You'd just think if teams get one for players not signing with them after being drafted they'd get one after something beyond everyone's control that ruins their career and doesn't let them play again would get you one as well, especially a top 15 pick. A late round pick I'd understand since they're longshots anyways.

 

[nuck]

Ohh cherepanov right.. yeah they didnt receive anything for that

Nor should a team imo i mean it is simply chance

March 12, 2009

The New York Rangers have been awarded a compensatory draft pick in the wake of Alexei Cherepanov's death in October.
The draft pick, the 17th in the second round of the 2009 Entry Draft, was awarded at this week's General Manager's meetings in Naples, Fla. Rangers GM Glen Sather made a presentation at the meetings requesting a compensatory selection.

The difference is Cherepanov wasn't signed so this doesn't directly apply as a precedent.

 

[andora]

March 12, 2009

The New York Rangers have been awarded a compensatory draft pick in the wake of Alexei Cherepanov's death in October.
The draft pick, the 17th in the second round of the 2009 Entry Draft, was awarded at this week's General Manager's meetings in Naples, Fla. Rangers GM Glen Sather made a presentation at the meetings requesting a compensatory selection.

The difference is Cherepanov wasn't signed so this doesn't directly apply as a precedent.

Thank you very much for the info I never knew that the Rangers got anything

 

[uncleben]

March 12, 2009

The New York Rangers have been awarded a compensatory draft pick in the wake of Alexei Cherepanov's death in October.
The draft pick, the 17th in the second round of the 2009 Entry Draft, was awarded at this week's General Manager's meetings in Naples, Fla. Rangers GM Glen Sather made a presentation at the meetings requesting a compensatory selection.

The difference is Cherepanov wasn't signed so this doesn't directly apply as a precedent.

Not sure why Sather would've needed to make a presentation at the General Manager's meeting, it's written into the CBA

(excerpt from the current CBA, but the same passage was present in the CBA of the time)

(b) In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft [...] who (i) is again eligible for the Entry Draft, (ii) becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, or (iii) dies, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights.

NYR would've been given a compensatory pick by default.

By signing Amirov, the Leafs forfeited their ability to collect on a compensatory pick, if Amirov never plays. It would be equivalent (in the eyes of the CBA) to a signed first-rounder suffering a career ending hockey related injury prior to playing a game, or a signed first-rounder simply never making it.

Now, I can see the Leafs having grounds to appeal to the General Managers and the League, but I doubt it's in their favour. Morally they did the right thing, but legally they did the "wrong" (in terms of getting compensation) thing.

 

[Madap]

Not sure why Sather would've needed to make a presentation at the General Manager's meeting, it's written into the CBA

(excerpt from the current CBA, but the same passage was present in the CBA of the time)


NYR would've been given a compensatory pick by default.

By signing Amirov, the Leafs forfeited their ability to collect on a compensatory pick, if Amirov never plays. It would be equivalent (in the eyes of the CBA) to a signed first-rounder suffering a career ending hockey related injury prior to playing a game, or a signed first-rounder simply never making it.

Now, I can see the Leafs having grounds to appeal to the General Managers and the League, but I doubt it's in their favour. Morally they did the right thing, but legally they did the "wrong" (in terms of getting compensation) thing.

Yeah can’t see any other teams doing us any favours, but who knows.

Still, I’m happy to cheer for a team that does stuff like this. Say what you want about Dubas, but he’s a good dude and the Leafs are a top-notch organization.

 

[nuck]

Not sure why Sather would've needed to make a presentation at the General Manager's meeting, it's written into the CBA

(excerpt from the current CBA, but the same passage was present in the CBA of the time)


NYR would've been given a compensatory pick by default.

By signing Amirov, the Leafs forfeited their ability to collect on a compensatory pick, if Amirov never plays. It would be equivalent (in the eyes of the CBA) to a signed first-rounder suffering a career ending hockey related injury prior to playing a game, or a signed first-rounder simply never making it.

Now, I can see the Leafs having grounds to appeal to the General Managers and the League, but I doubt it's in their favour. Morally they did the right thing, but legally they did the "wrong" (in terms of getting compensation) thing.

The below is from 2005. They added "dies" in 2011. I believe Sather had to argue that Chery was eligible to be drafted the next year, even though deceased as nothing in the CBA says a person must be living to be selected (seriously)

8.3 Compensatory Draft Selections. (a) In addition to the seven (7) rounds of the Entry Draft, there shall be an additional number of Compensatory Draft Selections not to exceed the number of Clubs to be in the League in the following year. (b) In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights. By way of example, if a Club cannot sign the third pick in the first round, it will receive the third pick in the second round as compensation.

They signed Amirov in April 2021 and the cancer wasn't diagnosed until after an injury in the 21-22 season. If I am Tre I still make the pitch, but I think the comparison to a signed player simply dying in an accident before he comes over is apt.

 

[The Iceman]

I think too the player would have to announce his retirement from hockey.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think too the player would have to announce his retirement from hockey.

For sure that would have to be a requirement. While the circumstances are somewhat different, I would think they’d have enough reason to request compensation, whether it’s granted or not is another question.

 

[LaPlante94]

Not sure why Sather would've needed to make a presentation at the General Manager's meeting, it's written into the CBA

(excerpt from the current CBA, but the same passage was present in the CBA of the time)


NYR would've been given a compensatory pick by default.

By signing Amirov, the Leafs forfeited their ability to collect on a compensatory pick, if Amirov never plays. It would be equivalent (in the eyes of the CBA) to a signed first-rounder suffering a career ending hockey related injury prior to playing a game, or a signed first-rounder simply never making it.

Now, I can see the Leafs having grounds to appeal to the General Managers and the League, but I doubt it's in their favour. Morally they did the right thing, but legally they did the "wrong" (in terms of getting compensation) thing.

We signed him to help him with his medical costs. I think they can make an exception for something like that.

 

[nuck]

We signed him to help him with his medical costs. I think they can make an exception for something like that.

He was signed in April 2021 and wasn't diagnosed until 2022.

 

[uncleben]

The below is from 2005. They added "dies" in 2011. I believe Sather had to argue that Chery was eligible to be drafted the next year, even though deceased as nothing in the CBA says a person must be living to be selected (seriously)

8.3 Compensatory Draft Selections. (a) In addition to the seven (7) rounds of the Entry Draft, there shall be an additional number of Compensatory Draft Selections not to exceed the number of Clubs to be in the League in the following year. (b) In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights. By way of example, if a Club cannot sign the third pick in the first round, it will receive the third pick in the second round as compensation.

They signed Amirov in April 2021 and the cancer wasn't diagnosed until after an injury in the 21-22 season. If I am Tre I still make the pitch, but I think the comparison to a signed player simply dying in an accident before he comes over is apt.

Good catch, I saw the passage but overlooked the exclusion of "dies"

And I totally thought we signed him after! Thanks for the correction!

 

[Stephen]

Is there a history of the league doing such a thing?
I thought I remembered the NYR asking for such when their Russian young prospect died from cardiac arrest but didn't get anything.

I could be wrong though.

That was Alexei Cherepanov, and I don't think the Rangers got anything for him.

Not exactly the same, but the Leafs 2000 1st pick Luca Cereda had a heart issue that prevented him from continuing his NHL career, but seemed to carry on in the Swiss league for some time.

 

[Fogelhund]

That was Alexei Cherepanov, and I don't think the Rangers got anything for him.

I mean the info is posted right in this thread if you read it... but..

Rangers awarded 2009 second round pick on 2009-03-12 as compensation for inability to sign 2007 first round pick Alexei Cherepanov

 

[hockeynorth]

Amirov was healthy when we signed him, or at least, it was thought he was.

We signed him to help him with his medical costs. I think they can make an exception for something like that.

This is not true

 

[justashadowof]

Some are mis-remembering what happened with Amirov. It was his club Russian team (Salavat Yulaev Ufa) who re-signed him to a contract without the expectation of him playing presumably to help him out with the cost of medical treatment.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Knies in a 3 way tie with Hutson (lol) and Eklund

HFBoards TOP 50 Prospects Ranking #22 (closed)

:HFB: TOP 50 PROSPECTS Criteria is 22 and under, 30 NHL GP or less, no goalies 1. Connor Bedard - C :hawks 18. Olen Zellweger - D :ducks2 35. 2. Adam Fantilli - C :cbj 19. Zach Benson - LW :sabres 36. 3. Matvei Michkov - RW :flyers 20. Ryan Leonard - RW :caps 37. 4. Leo...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[WTFMAN99]

Knies in a 3 way tie with Hutson (lol) and Eklund

HFBoards TOP 50 Prospects Ranking #22 (closed)

:HFB: TOP 50 PROSPECTS Criteria is 22 and under, 30 NHL GP or less, no goalies 1. Connor Bedard - C :hawks 18. Olen Zellweger - D :ducks2 35. 2. Adam Fantilli - C :cbj 19. Zach Benson - LW :sabres 36. 3. Matvei Michkov - RW :flyers 20. Ryan Leonard - RW :caps 37. 4. Leo...

forums.hfboards.com

Lane would need to appear in the NHL and do some crazy things for me to believe in him, that height as a defenseman just seems so hard to overcome.

 

[Community]

Lane would need to appear in the NHL and do some crazy things for me to believe in him, that height as a defenseman just seems so hard to overcome.

I know nothing about the player, but hes listed as 5'10.

Do you really think 1-2 inches in height makes a difference as a hockey player? Arguably the best dman in the world (Makar) is listed at 5'11.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I know nothing about the player, but hes listed as 5'10.

Do you really think 1-2 inches in height makes a difference as a hockey player? Arguably the best dman in the world (Makar) is listed at 5'11.

Plus Q.Hughes at 5'10, Krug at 5'9 and Spurgeon at 5'9

 

[VanW27]

I know nothing about the player, but hes listed as 5'10.

Do you really think 1-2 inches in height makes a difference as a hockey player? Arguably the best dman in the world (Makar) is listed at 5'11.

He's listed as 5'9" most places, including on his NHL bio - there were only 5 regular defenseman who played in the NHL who are 5'9" or shorter. 3 of those 5, I would call top 4 calibre players; Spurgeon, Krug, Grzelkyk.

You may say teams like to boost players size listing and there's probably other guys who are actually 5'9", or these guys might really be 5'8", etc, but of course Hutson is getting the same treatment. He was measured at 5' 8.25" at the combine and that's likely the only time we'll ever get an actual official measurement.

The guy put up video game numbers as a Freshman, I certainly wouldn't disregard him as a quality prospect but to suggest size isn't a sognificant concern for a 5'8" 158lb Dman (combine results) is just being divorced from reality.

 

[Community]

He's listed as 5'9" most places, including on his NHL bio - there were only 5 regular defenseman who played in the NHL who are 5'9" or shorter. 3 of those 5, I would call top 4 calibre players; Spurgeon, Krug, Grzelkyk.

You may say teams like to boost players size listing and there's probably other guys who are actually 5'9", or these guys might really be 5'8", etc, but of course Hutson is getting the same treatment. He was measured at 5' 8.25" at the combine and that's likely the only time we'll ever get an actual official measurement.

The guy put up video game numbers as a Freshman, I certainly wouldn't disregard him as a quality prospect but to suggest size isn't a sognificant concern for a 5'8" 158lb Dman (combine results) is just being divorced from reality.

Weight is more concerning and should/can be able to be addressed. Being 1 or 2 inches shorter than most other NHL dmen should not significantly hamper his potential for an NHL career.

Other than goalie, the importance of height is overstated by most. It's going to be hard to notice the difference between two players that are within 2" of each other while they're on the ice. As long as he puts enough weight on that he can avoid injury and not be easily pushed around, his size may still be a small hurdle, but certainly not the biggest concern in today's NHL... especially for an offensive dman.

To put it in another light, he's the same height as Brad Marchand. Height isn't as important as it's made out to be.

 

[VanW27]

Height isn't as important as it's made out to be.

Using the criteria for NHL regular I used to get the 5 regular Dman 5'9" or under there were 208 NHL defenseman who qualify. So 5 out of 208, or 2.4%.

The average male height in North America is 5'9" so clearly height matters in a pretty significant way or that 2.4% number would be much higher.