Prospect Info: Marlies, Cyclones, and Prospect Discussion

[Stephen]

Probably. Though he doesn't strike me as the type that either Tre nor Berube traditionally like with their D men

I would say his chances are slim. The type of defenseman he projects to be and has the skillset for is not the question but it’s how high end can he be? If you think of a Quinn Hughes style point guard defenseman, that would be top of the pyramid type. The further down you go on that pecking order the more guys will start resembling Tanev, McCabe, etc etc.

Basically the Sandin conundrum.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Probably makes more sense to pencil Cowan in for the Marlies next year rather than the Leafs.

Hard to say. Cowan does seem to have stalled somewhat in his development which is likely a product of him not playing in the AHL this season where he actually belongs. My best guess is that he starts next year in the minors but gets call ups during the season.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Probably. Though he doesn't strike me as the type that either Tre nor Berube traditionally like with their D men

Niemela won’t fit with Berube as a coach. He doesn’t have the offensive ability to quarterback a power play at the NHL level yet and is too small to clear the net defensively. He’s probably a decent #5 at even strength as a Connor Timmins replacement but Connor Timmins is more experienced, and stronger than Niemela. There just isn’t a role for him on the current iteration of the leafs.

 

[ULF_55]

Probably. Though he doesn't strike me as the type that either Tre nor Berube traditionally like with their D men

Treliving did get Hanifin for Fox though right?

 

[SprDaVE]

He now leads the AHL in goals.

 

[aingefan]

Marlies with another opportunistic win, this time in overtime.
Pretty soundly outplayed in the first two periods but came out tied after 40.
Jumped ahead early in the third, then gave up the tying goal with 15 seconds left.
The Hildebeast got the win, was good not great. Some big rebounds, a couple times out of position, but battled. Stopped 30/33.
Steeves, Shaw and Blandisi had 1g/1a. Nick Abruzzese had the other goal. Cade Webber, ANylander, Niemela and Solow had assists.


Cyclones blanked today.

 

[4thline]

He now leads the AHL in goals.

Will be interesting to see if anyone gives him a one way deal and a serious shot next year.

 

[Apex Predator]

Will be interesting to see if anyone gives him a one way deal and a serious shot next year.

Anyone remember who he played with when he was up with the leafs? I’d love to get him an extended look on the 4th line to see what we got with him.

 

[JEI]

Anyone remember who he played with when he was up with the leafs? I’d love to get him an extended look on the 4th line to see what we got with him.

I'd try him higher in the lineup if I'm giving him a shot.

 

[Apex Predator]

I'd try him higher in the lineup if I'm giving him a shot.

Why not the third line not like they’ve been lighting it up!

 

[JEI]

Why not the third line not like they’ve been lighting it up!

Agree. I mean, the guys a scorer so if you don't put him in a position to do makes little sense.

He's scoring at a similar rate to Bobby McMann before he came up.

 

[ULF_55]

Will be interesting to see if anyone gives him a one way deal and a serious shot next year.

He should find a team that doesn't have too many scorers.

 

[Stephen]

Niemela won’t fit with Berube as a coach. He doesn’t have the offensive ability to quarterback a power play at the NHL level yet and is too small to clear the net defensively. He’s probably a decent #5 at even strength as a Connor Timmins replacement but Connor Timmins is more experienced, and stronger than Niemela. There just isn’t a role for him on the current iteration of the leafs.

Previous regime stocked up on quite a few draft picks with no obvious promotion pathway to the NHL. A less than elite small skilled defenseman who isn't a first pairing guy will fall through most NHL depth charts a la Victor Mete.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Previous regime stocked up on quite a few draft picks with no obvious promotion pathway to the NHL.

No they didn't. All draft picks have a promotion pathway. It's just a matter of working on the things you need, and getting to that level. Most will fail. Some will succeed. But there is room for more than one type of player in the NHL, and any regime that dismisses prospects because they don't fit some specific profile is putting themselves at a disadvantage.

A less than elite small skilled defenseman who isn't a first pairing guy will fall through most NHL depth charts a la Victor Mete.

Or they give you multiple years of surplus value and then return a 1st round pick+.

 

[nuck]

Cowan not playing today. I can't find any details but I think he is banged up. After the streak ended I think maybe he finally gets to rest up whatever might be nagging him.

 

[TheDoldrums]

At the Oshawa game tonight, my daughter is playing during the 2nd intermission. First time seeing Danford live this season.

 

[aingefan]

Marlies playing again today, AA back in the net after being injured for a week plus, maybe two.

Marlies playing again today, AA back in the net after being injured for a week plus, maybe two

 

[Americanadian]

Cowan not playing today. I can't find any details but I think he is banged up. After the streak ended I think maybe he finally gets to rest up whatever might be nagging him.

The streak is still going, no?

 

[aingefan]

Marlies playing again today, AA back in the net after being injured for a week plus, maybe two.

Marlies playing again today, AA back in the net after being injured for a week plus, maybe two

Marlies lost this one 4-2 against a good SJ team, deservedly so.
Missing the talent of the three forwards with the leafs.
AA was better than the numbers suggest, stopping 23/26. One goal was an unexpected deflection after a bad Mattinen turnover, and another was kinda pin balled off a foot.
Mastrosimone and Blandisi scored the goals, with assists registered to Solow and Benning.

 

[Stephen]

No they didn't. All draft picks have a promotion pathway. It's just a matter of working on the things you need, and getting to that level. Most will fail. Some will succeed. But there is room for more than one type of player in the NHL, and any regime that dismisses prospects because they don't fit some specific profile is putting themselves at a disadvantage.

Or they give you multiple years of surplus value and then return a 1st round pick+.

Flushing a half dozen picks on small, non elite defenesmen who can't be promoted to the NHL would seem like the biggest disadvantage.

 

[Stephen]

Cowan not playing today. I can't find any details but I think he is banged up. After the streak ended I think maybe he finally gets to rest up whatever might be nagging him.

At this point, I think he just needs the OHL season to wrap up, get a call up to the Marlies and start learning the pro game. He was on such a spectacular trajectory last season, and this year it seems like he just couldn't match that. Time to get to work on the next level (if he's still here past the deadline).

 

[Martin Skoula]

Flushing a half dozen picks on small, non elite defenesmen who can't be promoted to the NHL would seem like the biggest disadvantage.

Niemela coming in at 6’1 195, or a leap in skating after a big offseason with 4 years of professional experience seems more likely than a Rasanen or Gordeev suddenly jumping about 12 pairings across 3 tiers of leagues of skill/IQ development in the same timeframe.

Probably didn’t need to draft Hollowell after having Sandin and Niemela already but even still, he’s already played more games than all of Hunter’s fridges ever will combined.

Imo after the first 50 picks or so your job is to get someone that can play top4/top6 with the Marlies in their D+2 and trust that your development system can turn them into a viable footsoldier. If they end up a AAAA tweener so be it, but drafting guys that can’t even make it to the AHL is inexcusable.

 

[AlienWorkShop]

Going by Wickenheiser's comments in that recent Athletic article, perhaps she's searching for an excuse for a Leafs brass biased against small defenders (which is their prerogative!), but it sounds like the Leafs simply haven't been impressed by Niemela's off-ice work. I was pretty baffled by his lack of exhibition gametime this year, but it's on him if he's not doing the requisite work. I've generally thought Niemela's looked 'good' in the few Marlies games I've caught, but certainly not 'exceptional'.

I know we need/want Niemela and Hirvonen to turn out, but:
a) worth keeping in mind they were only late 2nd/early 3rd round picks at 59 and 64. Draft pick value drops off steeply from about the mid-1st round. Not using that as an excuse, but a reality check.
b) On that note, glancing at that 2020 draft, I was struck by how poor most of the picks after them are looking: Elite Prospects - NHL Entry Draft 2020 Could've taken Will Cuylle instead of Hirvonen... after that, need to drop to 83 for Alex Laferriere for an NHL regular. Otherwise a bit of prospect wasteland

The likes of Kleven, Faber (!), or Lohrei would've been available at 44 if we hadn't traded down for 59 and 64, but that's a deeper counterfactual (took a quick glance and doesn't look like those guys were that highly ranked at the time)

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Shame that Tverberg's production has plummeted. 2 goals and 6 assists in 28 games (23 point 82 game pace*) after putting up a pretty impressive 9 goals and 23 assists in 46 games (57 point pace) last year. Sounds like he's had some injury issues, so let's see how the last year of his ELC goes next year, but was hoping he'd turn out to be a diamond in the rough (keeping in perspective that he was a late 7th rounder...)

*Yeah, yeah, I know they don't play 82 games in the AHL...