Player Discussion Mark "Vigilante” Borowiecki

[Micklebot]

What does Jaros, Harpur or Wolanin do better than Mark Borowiecki ? All three of them failed to crack the opening day roster .......... so that's one thing they are not better at, than Mark Borowiecki

Mark Borowiecki, as pointed out earlier, in 270 career regular season games, is only a -2, and -1 in 8 playoff games.

So... your argument boils down to contract status giving an advantage for roster decisions and plus minus? Pretty notable that you didnt actually evaluate them on any skill or ability

Also worth pointing out Harpur did crack the opening day roster (thanks likely to his one way contract). Perhaps you meant lineup for game 1?

 

[Mr Hat]

This isn't proof of anything.

Neither is this

There isn't a stat on missed hits so I'm not sure what you want as proof. It's common knowledge that trying to hit talented players is a risky way to defend. On top of getting routinely beat Boro takes too many penalties for interference and boarding because he fully commits to a hit way too early. The first priority should be staying in position and taking away space. If you actually watch games and don't see this then there's no point in discussing it further.

 

[solidprospect]

There isn't a stat on missed hits so I'm not sure what you want as proof. It's common knowledge that trying to hit talented players is a risky way to defend. On top of getting routinely beat Boro takes too many penalties for interference and boarding because he fully commits to a hit way too early. The first priority should be staying in position and taking away space. If you actually watch games and don't see this then there's no point in discussing it further.

If you can't prove he's a bad defenceman then you're correct about no point discussing further.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Boro can't skate or handle the puck well enough to play against the top opposition. He is heart and soul, I give him credit for his effort and bringing what he has , but what he has is just enough to play some low minutes on the PK, and sheltered minutes vs bottom 6 players. Even though the kids do not have the experience they have the tools to get better with experience.. The main thing is to stay positive with the kids through their mistakes

 

[Mr Hat]

If you can't prove he's a bad defenceman then you're correct about no point discussing further.

Just watch tonight's game vs the leafs. There will be tons of proof for you. In other breaking news water is wet!

 

[solidprospect]

Just watch tonight's game vs the leafs. There will be tons of proof for you. In other breaking news water is wet!

0 proof

 

[Micklebot]

If you can't prove he's a bad defenceman then you're correct about no point discussing further.

Can you prove he's a good defenseman? I mean, there is no officially sanctioned foolproof rating system whereby I can show Boro is ranked below the threshold for good dmen, so no point in discussing the players, right?


I liked Boro last year, but he has limited to no offensive impact, and often that lack of offensive skill set manifests itself in the way of turnovers instead of easy breakouts. He can also get overly aggressive and pull himself out of position, takes penalties, and so on. Sometimes he can play within his means and contribute, but he's got a pretty thin margin for error.

 

[Multigrain]

Luckiest player in the NHL. Any other organization would have him on a 2-way contract and playing in the AHL. Here he gets a multi-year, 1-way contract, gets to wear the A, and is made one of the face of the team by Eugene.

Please post this comment on SensChirp

 

[BondraTime]

0 proof

If you can't see the proof then you don't understand hockey

 

[Multigrain]

The media has said that Boro has great leadership in the lockerroom.
The media has nothing but stellar things to say about Boro.
Is the Ottawa media responsible for keeping Boro on this team?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

If you can't prove he's a bad defenceman then you're correct about no point discussing further.

Boro has been with this team for a while now and has never been considered good by anyone.

I think that makes him a bad dman. He has his uses however, it isn't worthless. Just not really NHL worthy.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The media has said that Boro has great leadership in the lockerroom.
The media has nothing but stellar things to say about Boro.
Is the Ottawa media responsible for keeping Boro on this team?

The budget is: he is popular (clearly loved by his teammates and that is not nothing) and, most importantly, very cheap and very loyal.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

What does Jaros, Harpur or Wolanin do better than Mark Borowiecki ? All three of them failed to crack the opening day roster .......... so that's one thing they are not better at, than Mark Borowiecki

Mark Borowiecki, as pointed out earlier, in 270 career regular season games, is only a -2, and -1 in 8 playoff games.

Not surprised you used plus minus for your argument.

 

[solidprospect]

If you can't see the proof then you don't understand hockey

If you cant prove it you think you know about hockey when you really don't.

Noone has proven anything other than saying he's bad trust me, it's so weak.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Okay, to be fair to Boro, the original image posted left out the two other forwards that were flying up ice turning this into a possible 3 on 1. Boro had issues but I thought he made the right choice in letting Andy handle that shot from above the circle. Goalie should have been square. The puck hits him solid in the shoulder and he turned with it and it went in. Literally not even one second passes between the image I posted and the shot taken so I think folks need to relax a bit on Boro here.
He had some other problems but this goal is on Andy and the players who let a 3 on 1 happen.
View attachment 144385

you dont understand hockey. Look at all the open space Boro gave up to commit to defending a 2 on 1 where the 2nd player is still at center ice. Note also the two ottawa senator sticks indicating how close they are to the rushing forwards. The only most direct threat is Toews, Boro however play with tunnel vision. no sense of awareness of things that are happening on the ice. So he lets him walk right in while taking away a pass to no one.

i lolled at it being swiftwin, aragorn and solidprospect liking your post though. that made too much sense

 

[BondraTime]

If you cant prove it you think you know about hockey when you really don't.

Noone has proven anything other than saying he's bad trust me, it's so weak.

I don't need to trust you. Frankly, this makes me trust you less.

I trust my own judgement and evaluations much more.

We have over 5 years of proof.

 

[solidprospect]

I don't need to trust you. Frankly, this kind of makes me trust you less.

I trust my own judgement and evaluations much more.

All I asked for was proof and noone could.

 

[BondraTime]

All I asked for was proof and noone could.

There's a ton of proof, 6 plus seasons. It's not our fault if you can't see the forest for the trees.

He is a black hole offensively.

He isn't good a breaking the puck out.

Runs out of position often

Doesn't see the ice well.

He isn't good defensively.

He is very physical and plays with his heart on his sleeve.

He plays every shift hard.

 

[solidprospect]

There's a ton of proof. It's not our fault if you can't see the forest for the trees.

Show the proof then.

 

[BondraTime]

Show the proof then.

28 points in 270 games

Not able to shutdown players

Bottom of the league advanced stats

6 seasons of viewings

Watch tonight, that is likely to offer some more proof.

You're getting Count level.

 

[solidprospect]

28 points in 270 games

Not able to shutdown players

Bottom of the league advanced stats

6 seasons of viewings

Watch tonight, that is likely to offer some more proof.

You're getting Count level.

Thanks for the reminder that he's not a offensive defenceman

 

[Micklebot]

All I asked for was proof and noone could.

What exactly do you want as proof? Are you looking for a highlight reel of his gaffs?

I mean, in a sample of one game, we've already got a couple doozies from him in stealing the puck from Tierney only to make a soft pass to the Hawks Dman on the point, and defending the mystery pass for the Toews goal.

I'm on board for saying people are often overly critical of him, particularly last season when I actually though he played well (first time I've liked him over a season), but the guy is a bottom pair dman ideally suited for that 6/7 role imo.

 

[BondraTime]

Thanks for the reminder that he's not a offensive defenceman

Ok, well good to know you at least understand that, wasn't sure for but there.

That should mean he's a shutdown defenceman right? Or puckmoving defenceman?

Can you show me what does well that makes my claim of him not being good wrong? I'd like to see Some proof

 

[solidprospect]

What exactly do you want as proof? Are you looking for a highlight reel of his gaffs?

I mean, in a sample of one game, we've already got a couple doozies from him in stealing the puck from Tierney only to make a soft pass to the Hawks Dman on the point, and defending the mystery pass for the Toews goal.

I'm on board for saying people are often overly critical of him, particularly last season when I actually though he played well (first time I've liked him over a season), but the guy is a bottom pair dman ideally suited for that 6/7 role imo.

Stats and facts, comparisons to other d in the league. Not simply an eye test or he's not good , trust me.

 

[solidprospect]

Ok, well good to know you at least understand that, wasn't sure for but there.

That should mean he's a shutdown defenceman right? Or puckmoving defenceman?

Can you show me what does well that makes my claim of him not being good wrong? I'd like to see Some proof

Sure,now you're asking for proof. lol