Value of: Marcus Johannson

trick9

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Ennis for Johansson ?

I don't like it. Johansson is better, and less injury-prone than Ennis. Not to mention that only reason why Capitals would like to trade Johansson is because of the cap, and taking lesser player that makes the same salary that Johansson likely gets from the arbitration is a step back.
 

Hivemind

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That's terrible for WSH. I don't understand why some caps fans are hot to move perhaps the top goalie prospect right now. Swapping mojo for JVR at the expense of of Samsonov isn't the move that wins you a cup. It only hampers you 5 years down the line if you want/need to move on from Holtby.
I'm skeptical we'll see Samsonov topping any goalie rankings heading into 2016. Thatcher Demko will probably #1 on lists that omit anyone with NHL experience. If you count guys with limited NHL experience then you also add Hellebuyck, Saros, and Murray into that list. Some may pick Blackwood and/or Gillies over Ilya as well.

Moreover, goalie prospects are notorious unpredictable. Any prospect can have wild swings between now and five years down the road, but goalies in particular are hard to predict. It's why you see so many highly touted goalies flame out and so many starters come from lower rounds (or sometimes undrafted entirely). Looking at the past handful of Vezina winners there were two first round picks (Price, Rask), a 4th (Holtby), a 5th (Miller), a 7th (Lundqvist), a 9th (Thomas), and an undrafted player (Bobrovsky).

I'd much rather invest in the current team than hope Samsonov can challenge Holtby in 4 or 5 years. Holtby is under contract for a while, Grubauer has done well, and Vanecek is progressing nicely. While I won't pretend losing Samsonov would make the goalie pool thin, I'm more than willing to have a thin goalie pool in an effort to get a winger like van Riemsdyk. JVR excels across the board, is young, and is affordable during the current cup window. He is a substantial upgrade over Johansson.

This is George McPhee-esque.
It's quite the opposite of George McPhee-esque. You're obviously referencing the Forsberg trade, but that was highly atypical for McPhee. McPhee would almost always hoard prospects and functioned in a very risk-averse manner. It wasn't until the very end of his tenure he changed that.
 

Vatican Roulette

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Capitals already got a 3C. Hanzal has little appeal now.

Well my idea was to play Hanzel at center with Eller as his left wing. Or slot Eller as the 4th line center.

Either way, the Caps get solid NHL players and cut out long term salary.

Also, Hanzel is the best shutdown center in the league. IMO, he puts the Caps over the top.
 

Hivemind

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Well my idea was to play Hanzel at center with Eller as his left wing. Or slot Eller as the 4th line center.

Either way, the Caps get solid NHL players and cut out long term salary.

Also, Hanzel is the best shutdown center in the league. IMO, he puts the Caps over the top.

Eller is not a good left wing. If the Capitals were interested in Hanzal, they would have acquired him instead of Eller.

The Capitals already have a good enough shutdown center to win a cup. What they need is scoring depth, as secondary scoring is what typically fails them in the post-season. Swapping out Johansson for Hanzal puts them farther away from having that necessary scoring depth. Ditching Orlov on top of that makes it even worse.
 

Vatican Roulette

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Eller is not a good left wing. If the Capitals were interested in Hanzal, they would have acquired him instead of Eller.

The Capitals already have a good enough shutdown center to win a cup. What they need is scoring depth, as secondary scoring is what typically fails them in the post-season. Swapping out Johansson for Hanzal puts them farther away from having that necessary scoring depth. Ditching Orlov on top of that makes it even worse.

Who's the shutdown center?
 

StephenPeat

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Johansson has primarily played LW for quite a while now, with a couple spurts at RW before and after Oates' tenure. He had a stint at 3C this past year, but he's essentially a winger at this point.

One reason Johansson might be appealing to Toronto is that they have an opportunity to extend him long term right now, where-as JVR can walk in two years (and will require a significant raise to keep). While a long-term extension for Johansson will be more expensive than JVR's current contract, it would likely be cheaper than his next one.

Regardless, Washington would have to add to Johansson to land JVR. The question is what would Toronto be interested in? I think I could support Johansson + Samsonov for JVR. Could that be a passable deal from the Leafs' perspective?

No matter how many times you try to make this abomination happen, no other Caps fans and (very likely not management either) would do this trade.
 

StephenPeat

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As much as I want the caps to 'go all in', I don't think, on the average, trading away blue chip talent in a situation the caps are in necessarily is the difference maker in hoisting the cup.

More to this point, my opinion is JVR is not some majestic missing piece that makes everything click for WSH. Good player and if we are actually moving Mojo he'd be a good option, but not if it costs us Samsonov or Bowey.

Maybe I'm just too cautious when it comes to high level prospect talent? But I don't want auction off future talent for a 1 or 2 year slight upgrade.

I'm 100% on the same page with basically everything you've said here re: both JVR and Samsonov.
 

Vatican Roulette

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Lars Eller.

Not to mention Backstrom is more than capable as a shutdown center as well, and he further proved that by holding Crosby to 1 even-strength point in 6 playoff games.

To me its a match-up thing, Hanzel goes against the top line and shuts them down, and allows the rest of the team to do what they do.

I don't see Eller as a game breaker that can shutdown the top lines to the Stanley Cup.

EDIT: also, this saves the Caps cap space. 4.1 is the cap coming back.
 

txpd

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To me its a match-up thing, Hanzel goes against the top line and shuts them down, and allows the rest of the team to do what they do.

I don't see Eller as a game breaker that can shutdown the top lines to the Stanley Cup.

EDIT: also, this saves the Caps cap space. 4.1 is the cap coming back.

except, Hanzel misses 20 plus regular season games a year and the odds are long that he would last in a long playoff run.
 

Orvald

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I don't like it. Johansson is better, and less injury-prone than Ennis. Not to mention that only reason why Capitals would like to trade Johansson is because of the cap, and taking lesser player that makes the same salary that Johansson likely gets from the arbitration is a step back.

A concussion one year isn't being injury prone, just unlucky. but the cap relief would be bad indeed.

Girgensons and your 2nd rounder back for johansson then.
 

StephenPeat

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Jul 19, 2015
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Johansson
Orlov

For

Hanzel
Konnauton
If he's on your team and you can't spell his name correctly, we don't want him on our team. Johansson for Hanzel straight up is closer in value than what you've proposed here. Consider then that the Caps no longer have a true need for Hanzel and you'll understand we aren't going to trade two players currently RFAs (both young and under team control and significant contributors as recently as this past playoffs) for him.

Any Cap savings are a result of ill begotten inadequacies in trade value between the pairs of players. I.E. Johansson and Orlov combined make more money than Hanzel and Connauton because they are better and more valuable players, perhaps not individually but certainly in sum.
 
Last edited:

Hivemind

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The irony of correcting the spelling of Connauton then spending the entire post spelling Hanzal incorrectly amuses me.
 

StephenPeat

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The irony of correcting the spelling of Connauton then spending the entire post spelling Hanzal incorrectly amuses me.

For now I hope you'll accept my apologies. Perhaps my spelling of Hanzal reflects, as laid out in the same post, my desire to have him on my team at the expense of two players who have solidly provided more to the Caps in the recent postseason than Hanzal has to his team. When he plays for the Caps I'll be more astute.

But please continue to deflect from the trade you proposed in multiple threads that practically your entire fanbase has said is atrocious. At least the Hanzal suggestion was from a non-Caps fan.
 

Hivemind

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For now I hope you'll accept my apologies. Perhaps my spelling of Hanzal reflects, as laid out in the same post, my desire to have him on my team at the expense of two players who have solidly provided more to the Caps in the recent postseason than Hanzal has to his team. When he plays for the Caps I'll be more astute.

But please continue to deflect from the trade you proposed in multiple threads that practically your entire fanbase has said is atrocious. At least the Hanzal suggestion was from a non-Caps fan.

Practically the entire fanbase? LOL. It's just you and Kolzilla who have commented negatively. I'm not sure if you've attended a game at Verizon Center lately, but two people does not compose practically the entire fanbase.

And FWIW, Langway expressed support for the concept of paying Samsonov to improve the current team.
 

Zoidberg Jesus

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I feel like there's gotta be a better option out there than JVR if we're giving up Johansson and Samsonov. Eberle with 50% retained, maybe? Would give us room to sign Orlov at 2.75M and Versteeg at 2.25M.

Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Oshie
Burakovsky-Backstrom-Eberle
Versteeg-Eller-Williams
Winnik-Beagle-Wilson

Johansson
Orlov

For

Hanzel
Konnauton

I definitely would've taken this before the Eller trade. I've wanted Hanzal for so long, it almost feels sad now that we've filled his potential spot and don't need him.
 

Drake1588

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For what it's worth, Mike Vogel is well plugged in and tonight he rejected suggestions the Caps would be looking to trade Johansson, calling him a key piece of the team. Shrug. Vogel has worn a number of hats, but has been the Caps' PR/outreach guy for nearly two decades now.

https://twitter.com/VogsCaps/status/750862610682097664

@VogsCaps I asked you this a while ago, but now that he has filed for arbitration, do you think the possibility of trading mojo increased?

Mike Vogel | ‏@VogsCaps
Don't think so. He's key part of team. Return would have to be good for him to be moved. Expecting him to be here.
 

Kolzilla

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I'm skeptical we'll see Samsonov topping any goalie rankings heading into 2016. Thatcher Demko will probably #1 on lists that omit anyone with NHL experience. If you count guys with limited NHL experience then you also add Hellebuyck, Saros, and Murray into that list. Some may pick Blackwood and/or Gillies over Ilya as well.

Moreover, goalie prospects are notorious unpredictable. Any prospect can have wild swings between now and five years down the road, but goalies in particular are hard to predict. It's why you see so many highly touted goalies flame out and so many starters come from lower rounds (or sometimes undrafted entirely). Looking at the past handful of Vezina winners there were two first round picks (Price, Rask), a 4th (Holtby), a 5th (Miller), a 7th (Lundqvist), a 9th (Thomas), and an undrafted player (Bobrovsky).

I'd much rather invest in the current team than hope Samsonov can challenge Holtby in 4 or 5 years. Holtby is under contract for a while, Grubauer has done well, and Vanecek is progressing nicely. While I won't pretend losing Samsonov would make the goalie pool thin, I'm more than willing to have a thin goalie pool in an effort to get a winger like van Riemsdyk. JVR excels across the board, is young, and is affordable during the current cup window. He is a substantial upgrade over Johansson.


It's quite the opposite of George McPhee-esque. You're obviously referencing the Forsberg trade, but that was highly atypical for McPhee. McPhee would almost always hoard prospects and functioned in a very risk-averse manner. It wasn't until the very end of his tenure he changed that.

Yeah, I get the unreliability of projected goaltending. Still, I would rather have a blue chipper than a bunch of maybes.

And let's be honest, the Forsberg trade was the atomic bomb. He's always going to be remembered for that. But no, that wasn't the only parallel I was drawing. McPhee drained the prospect pool by trading picks because "this is the year to go all in".
He let a lot of great talent walk for nothing e.g. Ribeiro, Semin, etc, because "we need to be all in".
At the end of the day, the amount of parity and misfortune that can occur in the playoffs can make most teams that get in have a realistic shot. But trading away talent better plug a gapping hole in your team, or the only thing you've guaranteed is you lost a potential impact player 5ish years from now. In regards to JVR, he doesn't plug that hole (because we don't really have one), and it is bad assest management.

(But of course this is all IMO)
 

CapitalsCupReality

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For what it's worth, Mike Vogel is well plugged in and tonight he rejected suggestions the Caps would be looking to trade Johansson, calling him a key piece of the team. Shrug. Vogel has worn a number of hats, but has been the Caps' PR/outreach guy for nearly two decades now.

https://twitter.com/VogsCaps/status/750862610682097664

@VogsCaps I asked you this a while ago, but now that he has filed for arbitration, do you think the possibility of trading mojo increased?

Mike Vogel | ‏@VogsCaps
Don't think so. He's key part of team. Return would have to be good for him to be moved. Expecting him to be here.

He's a key part, "this year"? If he's a core player, he would be extended already. This reeks of him walking for nothing or him signing a deal most will hate.
 

Pigskin

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Mojo has talent, but I didn't see any passion and desperation in a contract year that makes me want to give him $5m for 5 years ... and I fear that is what is going to happen

worse comes to worse, let him walk ... sign Versteeg (or similar) as cheap as possible short term, bank the rest ... let it accrue, make a splash at the deadline

even trade him for futures we can use at the deadline and bank the lot
 

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