Value of: Marco Rossi
- Thread starter Luceni
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- Dec 10, 2012
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No you didn't, you said "you don't understand you can flip picks" and then posted the DeBrincat example showing Detroit flipped picks. You never made the connection that what you were referring to was flipping them for non-rentals. By leading with "you don't understand you can flip picks", you made the example about flipping picks, not about non-rentals.
Like I said, this is what you should have said instead:
- Dec 10, 2012
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Okay we'll keep trying. DeBrincat was your example used, yes.
When you're communicating with someone, having a discussion, whatever, the purpose of using an example is to support a point. The way you chose to present it, the point your example was supporting was this:
Your point mentioned nothing about using them for non-rentals, it only mentioned people not understanding they can flip picks.
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
lilidk
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- Mar 4, 2008
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I remember Rossi as one of the most skilled in the draft year, missed time after COVID, now second on the team with 60 points . Something wrong with him?
Dr Jan Itor
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- Dec 10, 2012
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For the record, I don't love that deal, and I'd probably look elsewhere first, but I can see Guerin being interested in Wood.
bert
Registered User
Utah makes sense Tourigny had him in Ottawa with the 67's.
Whats a deal that could come together here? Hayton for Rossi seems like a good base.
Whats a deal that could come together here? Hayton for Rossi seems like a good base.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I'll respond here again since this is the Rossi thread and that was the Rossi for Peterka thread:
Thinking Hayton+2026 1st (top 12 protected?) or maybe even Hayton+the middle of their three 2nds in 2026+Duda or something. I like Hayton but the Wild are giving up a lot in a Rossi-Hayton swap, there needs to be some quality added.
bert
Registered User
Tiny centers just arent a winning formula in this league, there is a reason that Rossi is on the block and its not a mystery. While I think there should be an add from Utah I dont think its what you think it is. Guerin has a certain style team, I think by trading Rossi to Utah its one of a few teams that will be willing to give up close to the value you are hoping for.
- Dec 10, 2012
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I am intimately familiar with Hayton's game, I had Coyotes season tickets until they left Arizona. Being bigger and faster doesn't really matter, Rossi is the much better player. Hayton was a top 5 pick in 2018 and just had 20-26-46, sure. Rossi was a top 10 pick in 2020, missed a year of hockey post-draft, and just had 24-36-60.
"Hayton didn't get to ride shotgun with the talent Rossi did"
I don't know. I mean yeah, Keller isn't as good as Kaprizov, for sure. Keller and Schmaltz is possibly better collectively than Kaprizov for 30some games, and Zuccarello/Boldy for the rest. It's pretty hard to say who had it better.
It's not really hard to say who did better as a younger player though. That part is pretty easy.
bert
Registered User
Hayton is 1 year older than Rossi and likely more runway in terms of development when you look at body type. Rossi was as close to a finished product physically as a player gets coming out of jr.
I personally dont think there is a big gap. Rossi got passed by Hartman and Gaudreau come playoff time. I am not sure that happens to Hayton.
Anyways we will see but as a neutral fan and outsider I think this is a framing of a deal that makes sense if Guerin is hell bent on moving Rossi.
- Dec 10, 2012
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This is pure conjecture solely for the purpose of pumping Hayton's tires and deflating Rossi's. Hayton is two drafts ahead of Rossi and has had an additional year on top of that to develop. If you're going by how finished they are physically? Hayton is done. He's not advancing in that aspect either.
Hayton also hasn't progressed as a player in several years, Rossi still hasn't stopped progressing as a player. If we're going to say one of them has more runway to develop, it's not Hayton. The only argument you have there is height and that's a really bad one.
Did you watch our playoff games? Gaudreau was atrocious, he didn't pass anyone. He was the worst player in the series. Hartman is a playoff performer, but he's also a winger that was only playing center because we traded Khusnutdinov for Brazeau at the deadline. Hartman played wing 80% of the season, and that's where he'll play moving forward. I get the coach had some ideas on how he wanted to use guys, and among virtually every Wild fan, including the beat writer Russo, those ideas were criticized heavily.
I'll concede that there's a reason Rossi is on the block, and it's his height, but that doesn't take away from what he actually is as a player. Just because he's a 5'9 60 point center doesn't mean he's not a 60 point center.
bert
Registered User
Unfortunately the bolded just isnt true. I have no dog in this fight I have no emotional attachment to either team or player. In fact I was involved with the 67's when Rossi played here. So if anything I would have a bias towards him.
I am basing this on body type and player development composition. Based on historical trends and what I have personally witnessed.
Two drafts but one birth year is correct. You may not like my position but because its not pro for the player on your favorite team doesnt mean its a bad one.
Anyways we can agree to dissagree here. I said there would be an add from Utah but what you want doesnt line up with each players value. Especially when one team is shopping a pllayer because he doesnt fit into the make up of their organization. Or many organizations for that matter. Small centers are rare for a reason.
I think Minnesota was a perfect situation for a player like Rossi and his skillset and they are moving off of him. I dont know if he is a top 6 center on many teams in the league so calling him a 60 point player when he fits into a role getting to play with elite players is something that might not come to fruition very often moving forward. Utah however would be a player where there is a coach that trusts him. Not sure if the organization see's him that way or not but I know the coach does.
Sombastate
Registered User
I don't see a world where the flyers get Rossi, especially because Luchanko is already small-ish
But if the wild miss out on Boeser, what's the plus on Tippet to get Rossi?
But if the wild miss out on Boeser, what's the plus on Tippet to get Rossi?
- Dec 10, 2012
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Admittedly I don't know if you said it solely to pump Hayton up and devalue Rossi, but what I do know for a fact is you have nothing to support the claim that Hayton specifically has more runway to develop than Rossi specifically. So yeah, that part at least is pure conjecture.
At the same time, even if Rossi is done developing physically, that doesn't really matter because it doesn't mean he's developing as a player.
You greatly overstate how much of an effect Kaprizov had on his production this season.
No, but it doesn't mean it's a good one either.
But sure, agree to disagree.
But honestly I'd love to get Hayton on the Wild, it would give me an excuse to break out the Hayton jersey I've had for years, even if it is the wrong team. Can't say I even own a Rossi jersey.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I was actually in the middle of typing up why I'd take Hayton over Rossi, but then took a glance at Rossi's underlying numbers and realized he just as good as Hayton is defensively.
I'm honestly really surprised someone like him is available at his age + production, is it because he's just small?
Tippett and his contract is a contract dump! Wild aren’t taking on bottom line winger with 7 years! He’s not what wild need or take on!!
Kaprizov will not be impressed if Rossi is trade for picks that will maybe be able to play and score 60 points in 3-5 years time. He wants to win in 25-26 now that the cap penalties are gone, and MN can compete on a level playing field with the rest of the NHL.
Tough depth Centers are great, but at some point you need a Center or two that can run an offense and not only score himself, but also get his wingers to score. Rossi is the closest MN has to that, is still young, and likely to improve. Getting a poor man's JEE is not what they need. They've got those.
Tough depth Centers are great, but at some point you need a Center or two that can run an offense and not only score himself, but also get his wingers to score. Rossi is the closest MN has to that, is still young, and likely to improve. Getting a poor man's JEE is not what they need. They've got those.
- Dec 10, 2012
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That's undeniably a part of it.
Based on his season ending press conference with the coach, Guerin also wants another center that can take matchups and take some of the load off Eriksson Ek. As good as Rossi is, that's not really his game.
And they expect Yurov to be on the team next year and make an impact.
So between Eriksson Ek, Yurov, and this mystery center they want to get to help Eriksson Ek, there isn't a spot for Rossi anymore, Yurov is kinda taking his role.
Honestly, if he was 6' tall, I'm still unsure if he'd have a spot here long term based on the above. It's hard to say.
yup.
Character wise, he's great. Super hard worker- more than most. Kind of quiet, but very determined. Religous, and doesn't drink. I think Guerin wants a bigger guy who gets into barfights in his off time.
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