Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Because we did not forget him having points in only 14 of his previous 51 games.
Rossi had points in 37 of the first 60.
Player Discussion Marco Rossi
- Thread starter TaLoN
- Start date
Rossi had points in 37 of the first 60.
He hasn’t been traded at this point and the demotion had solid reasoning at the time - with poor execution after the demotion of increasing ice time when he was starting to play much better.
Who knows, maybe Guerin supposedly tanking his value will only allow for bad trades offered from other teams and kick Guerin into making a compromise contract work because that’s the best value he can get for the team.
Can we at least let the situation play out before we complain? I think that Guerin article is solid proof that the two sides are at least trying to make it work. We didn’t have that with Fiala at all. Or Talbot.
- Dec 10, 2012
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For the record, Rossi had points in 44 games this season, Boldy had points in 45 games this season.
Eriksson Ek had points in 21/46 this year, 44 last year, and 45 the year before.
I think it's a weird way to look things, but if that is how we're going to look at things, Rossi seems to be a perfectly fine top six player according to that metric.
Eriksson Ek had points in 21/46 this year, 44 last year, and 45 the year before.
I think it's a weird way to look things, but if that is how we're going to look at things, Rossi seems to be a perfectly fine top six player according to that metric.
Now compare the next man up for each. Remember, demotions don’t really work unless you have someone that is playing better than said player’s poor play.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Who would you say is the next man up for Rossi?
Rossi ended up with points in 44 games (54%)
Eriksson Ek ended up with points in 21/46 games (46%)
Gaudreau had points in 30 (37%)
Hartman had points in 22/69 (32%)
The way this question is being loaded up is going to go down a path that misrepresents what I’m saying.
It has more to do with the timing of demotions than the total season statistics. Compare March 1st to the end of the season. You’ll notice that Rossi wasn’t demoted while he had an awful stretch in March. That’s because Ek was out injured and Hartman was in the doghouse after his suspension.
- Dec 10, 2012
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So we all agree he's a top six player.
And we generally agree that players should be demoted if they're not performing, like if Eriksson Ek has a 17 game stretch in 2023-24 where he only scores 7 points in 17 games (roughly statistically equivalent to 9 points in 22 games), Eriksson Ek should be moved down the lineup to the bottom six.
But he wasn't. And maybe you make the argument that the reason he wasn't was because no one behind him deserved the corresponding promotion. And maybe that's fair, but then you need to come up with another way to explain Rossi, because no one behind him deserved the promotion either, and certainly not as the playoffs wore on and Rossi started playing well again.
So we clearly see there's a different set of rules for Rossi than some of the other guys.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Also should be clear, Rossi's season this year, in virtually every way, including the rough month of March, was better than any season Eriksson Ek has had offensively. He scored more ES points than Ek did the year prior, despite not being able to play with Kaprizov for the entire season like Ek did, he was also not stapled to PP1 with Kaprizov for the entire season, like Ek was. When Rossi got PP1, Kaprizov wasn't on it.
And that's Eriksson Ek in his prime at 27 vs Rossi in his second season at 23. Rossi at 23 blows Ek at 23 out of the water, it's not close. This is not a player we should trade lightly, or really at all. He's still the best shot we have and have ever had at a 1C in the entire history of this franchise, and he's done all of it so far despite being 5'9 the entire time.
And that's Eriksson Ek in his prime at 27 vs Rossi in his second season at 23. Rossi at 23 blows Ek at 23 out of the water, it's not close. This is not a player we should trade lightly, or really at all. He's still the best shot we have and have ever had at a 1C in the entire history of this franchise, and he's done all of it so far despite being 5'9 the entire time.
- Dec 10, 2012
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And I get timing plays a part as well, but Rossi was immediately demoted when Ek came back despite scoring in 2/3 games in April right before Ek returned. So the idea that Ek deserved to be slotted back in there after missing the previous ~2 months isn't supported either. It was based on his previous body of work, which means we can use Rossi's previous body of work as well.
Ek also only scored in 2/6 playoff games on the top line and top PP. Rossi scored in 2/6 on the fourth line and second PP.
No matter how you compare these two statistically, there is little to no argument to be made that Ek is better offensively and deserves that opportunity more than Rossi. The only way you can do it is looking exclusively at March, and ignoring any and all times Ek has gone cold offensively as well.
Imagine how good his 60 points would be if he was 6'2"!
Arturia Pendragon
Humble Optimist
This is closer to the point I’m making; I’m completely avoiding the Rossi is/isn’t a justified “victim” of demotion. Simply from a trade perspective and how said demotion affects value.
This whole situation comes off almost like… Guerin is competing with himself.
How was Rossi demoted right away when Ek came back? He was playing on the same line with the same two guys (Boldy+Foligno) as the game before Ek returned.
I agree that Rossi is better offensively than Ek. My explanation for why I think they would put Ek next to Kap is because they view Kap as a below average defensive player and Ek can cover for him as well as do the dirty work in the corners. They also seem to like Boldy and Eriksson Ek together. So if you’re putting Boldy and Eriksson Ek on the 2nd line and Rossi on the 1st line with Kaprizov, who are the third players on each of those lines? (See, this does tie into our wingers sucking and needing to improve; why Johansson wasn’t demoted; etc).
- Dec 10, 2012
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I think their focus should be on bringing in a bigger winger who can complete the Kaprizov-Rossi line, and a faster winger who can complete the Eriksson Ek-Boldy line, rather than trying to trade Rossi. I don't have any ideas off the top of my head. Maybe down the line Heidt can complement the Boldy line.
And I feel Rossi should have been back with Kaprizov when he came back, because they had been extremely good together for the first 34 games, and not reuniting them was the demotion.
Wild fans focus on the silliest reasons. The real problem is that he is a one dimensional player. If Rossi was an effective penalty killer, he would have been signed to that 7x7 already.
JEE was vg defensive C almost from day one, but was was pretty bad offensively. He had 30 points as a 23 yo. Still, he gradually improved his point totals till he reached 64 at 27 yo.
Why is it impossible to project that a 23 yo Rossi will not improve defensively, or offensively, just like JEE? It is entirely possible that we have a defensively sound(he's not bad right now, just meh)Rossi at age 25, or a 80 point Rossi at 26 yo. The mid 20's is when hockey players reach their peak. I would argue that smart players(like Rossi, maintain their peak a bit longer, because part of their success, their mind, is not as prone to deterioration as the body. Rossi is also a fitness and health nut, so that makes him less vulnerable to the pitfalls of the road(drugs, booze, lifestyle).
Again, this guy is an improved Granlund who can play C. Not perfect, but I'll take it, at least till some young stud like Yurov or Heidt comes in and eats his metaphorical lunch.
Why is it impossible to project that a 23 yo Rossi will not improve defensively, or offensively, just like JEE? It is entirely possible that we have a defensively sound(he's not bad right now, just meh)Rossi at age 25, or a 80 point Rossi at 26 yo. The mid 20's is when hockey players reach their peak. I would argue that smart players(like Rossi, maintain their peak a bit longer, because part of their success, their mind, is not as prone to deterioration as the body. Rossi is also a fitness and health nut, so that makes him less vulnerable to the pitfalls of the road(drugs, booze, lifestyle).
Again, this guy is an improved Granlund who can play C. Not perfect, but I'll take it, at least till some young stud like Yurov or Heidt comes in and eats his metaphorical lunch.
Totally agree.
A guy like Mark Stone for the Kap-Rossi line: big, right handed, defensively sound, etc. I haven’t paid a ton of attention to Buffalo, but I’m curious if Tuch would be a good fit. 1 year left on his contract and is dying to make the playoffs.
This is going to piss off F7 a bit, but Fiala would be the perfect type of winger to complete the Ek-Boldy line. Similar type free agent: Ehlers? Maybe Peterka if we could work a non-Rossi deal?
Fair enough on the demotion part. I took a look at Rossi’s 5v5 TOI/gp to end the season, he played 15+ minutes against SJ and 16+ minutes against Calgary (both more than Ek), and then had a dramatic fall to 8 minutes against Vancouver. I can’t remember, did something happen in that game?
It doesn’t piss me off at all , it’s validation
Boldy and Fiala complimented each other perfectly and that was ripped away from us.
If Guerin would have prioritized Fiala from the start he could be heading into year 3 of his 8 year deal.
We would have ….
Kap Ek X
Fiala Rossi Boldy
Wed still have room to go for a serious add to fill X and that is a top 6 that would wreck other teams
Rossi’s agent confirmed they are not interested in a short term deal. Guerin unwilling to go 7x7. Unless they can figure something like 5 x $6-6.5M out, this thing is toast. Both sides are being equally stubborn on the opposite ends of the contract spectrum. Dumb.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Not unusual to not give up on ~$35 million in June. Plenty don't sign their bridge deals until August/September. Guys usually don't have the constant impending threat of being traded though. Normally the push up to the start of the season sparks compromise. Probably don't have that luxury in this case.
There is no hurry to get a deal done.
A short term deal isn't a good idea for Rossi at this point in the offseason. He's better off waiting until an offer sheet happens or doesn't after FA starts.
Short term deals will be an option later in the offseason if an offersheet doesn't happen.
They cited the playoff usage as the reason it doesn’t make sense for Rossi. Like, yeah, let’s ignore the 82 game season where you were the top 5v5 center pretty much all year and go with the 5-6 game sample size as the proof of what your role is.
This is the player version of the “3 good months” comment by Guerin. Yet, nobody is going to react to this like how they reacted to Guerin making that comment.
ctmagic
Registered User
- Jan 15, 2013
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I’ll give Rossi some leeway here. This sounds like an agent doing agent things.
It just looks like posturing by the agent to the public. Risky move imo. Doing this can be a turnoff for other teams that might be looking at the offersheet route.
At the end of the day the team is the one that still holds almost all the cards. They give Rossi a QO and his only options are:
- sign an OS
- re-sign with MN for what they offer
- hold out with the possibility of missing the entire season.
I 100% agree with the Rossi camp here. The minutes he was played during the post season were so baseless and meritless I’d never trust Hynes again if I was him. This is his career and they are obviously intent on f***ing with it. Honestly if I was Rossi I’d force a trade and be done with this inept clown show under Billy
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