Marc Bergevin - Now is the Summer of our Discontent Edition

[OneSharpMarble]

Who was the guy running the pp and pk into the ground? Is he still rattling around behind the scenes? I forget his name.

 

[417]

It was his 2nd injury of the season and we'd just lost a kabillion games in a row.

YES we should've gotten James Reimer.

Would you feel the same today had they gone out and acquired Reimer?

Cause assuming the Habs even make the playoffs with Reimer, which IMO is a stretch to assume in the first place, we know they would of got bounced in the 1st round

So you'd be happy with less picks and heading into this draft and drafting later in the 1st?

 

[Tuggy]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think this is going to be a good summer for the team and that Bergevin is going to improve the team.

I'm expecting a better roster come the fall. This is a big summer for Bergevin after what happened last season.

 

[417]

Of course there was a rebuttal, but you like to focus on the part where I laugh at a very selective 9 game sample. NINE GAMES!!!!!
And you completely ignored the rest of the post...as usual. Focused mostly how me and cry about my perceived aggression and sarcasm.
Seriously, get over it already. That post had content, you chose to ignore it.
Here it is again. Condon had a nice early stretch. Then Price went down again, where we needed Condon to redo what he had done earlier. He failed before anyone knew Price was gone long term. But you leave these games out...

You've been around these boards for a long time. You should know by now that if you want you want to have a discussion, you need to back up your opinion with facts/stats.
If all you have is a 9 game sample to use...your opinion won't be taken seriously.
You can still end up being right...or maybe we will never know..or maybe you won't.
That is an entirely different matter.
As of today, the only supportive fact (not factS) you have is the first 9 games of a rookie goalie. I'm sorry, but that's not even paper thin.


What's wrong with that? Really?
Geez..I don't know, let's see.

Condon: undrafted goalie, rookie NHL season at 25, .903sv%, very difficult rookie year where Habs had a historical collapse and he was arguably our worst player during, one season in the AHL as a rookie where he did quite well.

Galchenyuk: 3rd overall pick, 4 NHL seasons, career avg production of 48pts, just went through a possible breakthrough year scoring 30g, just 22 years old.

Ya, you're right...it's totally the same..

So I HAVE to have facts to back up my opinion on here? Lol

(mod)

Are you kidding me?

I think Mike Condon is a capable back up goalie. PERIOD.

I don't give 2 ****s if you need facts to "accept" my position on that. Are you kidding me right now?

Do you really think that all of your opinions are backed by facts? (mod)

And regarding your Condon vs Galchenyuk "argument"

So because Condon is undrafted, he's unable to improve from year to year? Despite some struggles last year, he did gain a lot of experience and I think he can become a solid BACK UP as a result of it....

Has he not improved EVERY year since becoming a pro?

He's done it before, I don't know why you assume with LESS of a workload next year, that he couldn't prove capable simply because he struggled as a green rookie in the NHL?

I mean, I'd understand your reaction of basically laughing at me if my opinion was that I thought Mike Condon could be a #1 goalie next year

But all I said was that I thought Mike Condon could be a capable backup next year, that's not that unreasonable, is it?

 

[417]

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think this is going to be a good summer for the team and that Bergevin is going to improve the team.

I'm expecting a better roster come the fall. This is a big summer for Bergevin after what happened last season.

I don't think you're in the minority at all, it's just the cynical one's are a lot more vocal

Someone is minutes away from telling you how you're stupid for thinking Bergevin could have a good summer

 

[Hoople]

I don't care if you want examples and I'm not going to try to find any.

It was glaringly apparent that we needed help to stop the bleeding in net. Our goalie was supposedly scheduled to come for the SECOND time from an injury to the same spot on his leg... we should've gotten help and we didn't.

Twist, turn ask for examples of this or that... it doesn't change anything. Our GM sat there and watched the team burn and he should've been fired for it.

There is a reason you wrote what you did in your first paragraph.

Because it is the reality of professional sports and its blows up your entire narrative.

 

[Agalloch]

I've read somewhere that Barberio is on the verge to signing a 2 year deal (one way) at 900,000 per with the Habs.

 

[Rapala]

I've read somewhere that Barberio is on the verge to signing a 2 year deal (one way) at 900,000 per with the Habs.

Fantastic...
What is our record when he is in the lineup?

 

[Mad Brills*]

Any interest in trading for the canucks #5 pick?

 

[Habs4ev*]

MB didn't want to spend assets thats why he got Scrivens. At the time of the trade he thought Price would come back and Tokarski sucked and could not play on this team. So MB traded for an AHL backup in Scrivens because he cost nothing.

when all said and done we basically traded Prust for Scrivens, so thats not exactly costing nothing,

i really think MB believed Scrivens could turn this season around but would never admit that,

MBs problem is he is always looking for a cheap solution to a serious problem,

did MB really think that Scrivens was better then Tokarski? he must have, because if he didnt there is no reason to make either of those moves, you just keep Tokarski for the time being

 

[Thebeastoftheeast]

I am ****ed off at Bergevin and rightly so but I feel that he at least deserves the chance to improve the team this summer and that opportunity will not come until the trading period opens just before the draft and carries on into the free agency period on July 1st.

Just because he has been conservative in past summers doesn't 100% guarantee he will be the same this summer- the adage, "Future performance can best be projected from past performance", cannot be used here.

People are ****ed off and rightly so- I am one of them and as of right now I am not a Bergevin supporter and I hate the fact that Therrien has been allowed to stay and coach this team.

That said, it is June 9th... if the team hasn't been improved by the middle of July, and by that I mean the addition of at least one top 6 forward, then I will give up all hope, what is left of it anyways, in MB to guide this team to #25.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Would you feel the same today had they gone out and acquired Reimer?

Cause assuming the Habs even make the playoffs with Reimer, which IMO is a stretch to assume in the first place, we know they would of got bounced in the 1st round

So you'd be happy with less picks and heading into this draft and drafting later in the 1st?

Yes and I'd work to re-sign him for this year. We have to start worrying about winning now and less about picks. We've ALREADY built through the draft and it's time to add to it.

Personally, I'd go after Reimer now anyway, we could use him.

Also, we don't know that we would've got bounced in the first round for two reasons. First, Carey Price might've been ready to play. He was practicising in full gear when the season ended and if we were playoff bound might've actually returned. Secondly, Reimer's good enough that we might've been able to get through depending on who our opponents were. He's not the best goalie but he can actually steal some games. And by the end of the year Galchenyuk was our first line center so that would've helped greatly too. Honestly man, who the hell knows what happens if we make the playoffs?

 

[Habs4ev*]

Yes and I'd work to re-sign him for this year. We have to start worrying about winning now and less about picks. We've ALREADY built through the draft and it's time to add to it.

Personally, I'd go after Reimer now anyway, we could use him.

agreed,

only a fool does not learn from their mistakes,

it was MBs fault for not having a competent backup, going into next season with Price/Condon again is not learning from your mistakes, it would only show how foolish MB really is,

MB will show his true colors this off season

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I am ****ed off at Bergevin and rightly so but I feel that he at least deserves the chance to improve the team this summer and that opportunity will not come until the trading period opens just before the draft and carries on into the free agency period on July 1st.

Just because he has been conservative in past summers doesn't 100% guarantee he will be the same this summer- the adage, "Future performance can best be projected from past performance", cannot be used here.

Of course it can. It doesn't mean that he's "100% guaranteed" not to do anything though.

We were saying the exact same things LAST summer and he did nothing. We went into a massive slump this year and he did nothing. So...

People are ****ed off and rightly so- I am one of them and as of right now I am not a Bergevin supporter and I hate the fact that Therrien has been allowed to stay and coach this team.

That said, it is June 9th... if the team hasn't been improved by the middle of July, and by that I mean the addition of at least one top 6 forward, then I will give up all hope, what is left of it anyways, in MB to guide this team to #25.

I hope he does something, I really do. Even if he does though, he's still stuck us with Therrien AGAIN for this year.

 

[Kriss E]

So I HAVE to have facts to back up my opinion on here? Lol

(mod)

Are you kidding me?

You don't have to technically provide anything, but if you want your opinion to be taken seriously in a debate or discussing, you need to back it up.
You learn that in highschool when you start learning about arguing and debates.

(mod)

I think Mike Condon is a capable back up goalie. PERIOD.

Cool. That doesn't make going into next season with the same failed tandem a smart idea.

I don't give 2 ****s if you need facts to "accept" my position on that. Are you kidding me right now?

And you're the one saying I can't engage in a normal discussion??

Do you really think that all of your opinions are backed by facts? (mod)

Yes actually, they are. I always support my opinions with hard facts.

And regarding your Condon vs Galchenyuk "argument"

So because Condon is undrafted, he's unable to improve from year to year? Despite some struggles last year, he did gain a lot of experience and I think he can become a solid BACK UP as a result of it....

Has he not improved EVERY year since becoming a pro?

Improve every year since becoming a pro? He had one good AHL season, followed by a terrible NHL one.
Gaining experience doesn't mean improving. You have Tokarski as a perfect example. He came in to replace Price in the POs, he did well, then couldn't cut it as a regular back up.
You also do not seem to understand what the discussion is about and are moving this towards a ''Could Condon do well as a back up'', which is something I never denied. On the contrary, I said he could very well actually fill the spot.
The problem is YOU DO NOT KNOW IF HE CAN DO IT. You can ''think'' that he can, but you do not know it as a fact.
Considering how it was a massive fail last year, I do not see the point in taking the same risk.(mod)

He's done it before, I don't know why you assume with LESS of a workload next year, that he couldn't prove capable simply because he struggled as a green rookie in the NHL?

He has never done it. Stop spreading this fictional idea that Condon already performed as a back up. He never did it.

I mean, I'd understand your reaction of basically laughing at me if my opinion was that I thought Mike Condon could be a #1 goalie next year

But all I said was that I thought Mike Condon could be a capable backup next year, that's not that unreasonable, is it?

I never had an issue with this idea actually, and I repeated it multiple times. (mod)

What I said is that going in next season with the same failed tandem is just stupid.
It doesn't mean Condon couldn't do a good job as a back up next year. It just means we do not know and should go into next season more prepared. It's called learning from your mistakes.

(mod)

 

[NotProkofievian]

Thats great that LR has excellent credentials, does that mean MB HAS TO HIRE HIM? He went in a different direction Cape could respect that and be professional about it.

Not even interviewing someone with those kinds of credentials is...well it's just ****ing stupid.

And of course you know the only reason JJD was hired was because he was MB's friend? Just like Waite/Dudley/Muller right? All in the foxhole. When is Mario joining the team since he also played on that same team to.

Never said it was the only reason. I'm sure Marc has his reasons. But what reason could there be to not even meet with Larry mother****ing Robinson?

I expect another 4 pages of posts about how JJD is horrible and LR is amazing and MB should of waited around for LR until he could reschedule and give his royal highness is god given right to an interview. Maybe LR and Cape should respect MB's decision and understand its a business and someone else was chosen. Same on this board. If you don't like JJD fine. Personally I don't have issues with JJD and am glad to see another former hab and young mind get an opportunity to further his coaching career.

I mean, he did schedule a meeting with LR. You make time to recruit the best talent. MB's not hiring a plumber here, he's hiring someone to help coach this team to a stanley cup. It's all well and good to ''give a chance to a former hab and young mind'' but you do your due diligence, and at least interview such a highly qualified candidate.

 

[smcgreg]

Would you feel the same today had they gone out and acquired Reimer?

Cause assuming the Habs even make the playoffs with Reimer, which IMO is a stretch to assume in the first place, we know they would of got bounced in the 1st round

So you'd be happy with less picks and heading into this draft and drafting later in the 1st?

Exactly! I don't get the outrage on this point. In fact, when they went down this road, full tank should have been in effect. Play EVERYBODY a lot. See what you've got. Play Chuck on the first line, first PP unit..... oh wait... now I get it. The full tank WAS on. Let's play our 5'0", one dimensional, impotent scoring center on the first line and give him prime playing opportunities. It will strangle any chance of generating offense and take us to the promised land..... Mathews here we come.

So, I guess I need to start tipping my hat to MB/MT and company. It was Chucky's fault we didn't get a top 3 draft pick, because he played too well when actually given an opportunity.

 

[CGG]

Context? Don't talk about context when you are making stuff up.

There is NO signing involved none. Khudobin could have been picked ON THE WAIVERS. A trade was required to acquire either Scrivens or Reimer.

Scrivens' cap hit: 2.3 millions (Oilers retained 552k, final cap hit: 1.748 million)
Reimer's cap hit: 2.3 millions
Khudobin's cap hit: 2.25 millions

Context? CONTEXT! All 3 goalie have the same base cap hit! High draft pick? Blow the cap? Please: CONTEXT.


On Dec. 28, the Habs had 2 (TWO) wins in 12 (TWELVE) games. It was already clear that Condon could NOT hold the fort for "a couple more weeks"

CONTEXT!
Bergevin was WRONG
Waite thought he could polish a turd and he was WRONG.
CONTEXT!

On Dec 28 Montreal was slugging through their worst month in who knows how long. Gallagher was 4 days away from returning, which one would assume would help the forward corps actually score a few more goals. As mentioned many, many times it was assumed (and confirmed) by team doctors that Price would be back at some point in January.

Option 1 - get a temporary stop gap to backup instead of Tokarski. With Gallagher coming back and Price set to return in a month or less, this guy will maybe play 4 or 5 games until things go back to "normal". The putrid offense will be fine after another few games when Gallagher comes back.

Option 2 - even though everyone thinks Price will be back in 10 to 12 games, let's go get a more "prime" talent like James freakin' Reimer. Complete overkill once Price gets back, but maybe he'll play 8 games before than and win a few games.

Now of course Scrivens was terrible, it was a bad idea no matter how you slice it. The guy was on "emergency recall" the rest of the season, meaning his status was basically AHL goalie forced to play in the NHL due to an injury. Gallagher did come back but didn't really help - the offense continued to suck. And of course Price's return date kept getting pushed back a few weeks at a time. If the doctors changed their mind the next day and said Price is done til April, I would assure you that MB likely would have changed his course of action.

Blame Price for getting a severe injury, that wasn't severe enough to rule him out for the rest of the season right away.

As for the other options, on Dec 28 Reimer had gone 25 days without playing a game. He himself was injured, or just coming back from an injury. He played the next night (Dec 29) in relief, then not again until Jan 7. A bit of a curious option for an injury replacement, to go pick up a guy who's injured himself, but whatever. Maybe he would have been a good move. More than likely, we still miss the playoffs with this guy, and it's all for naught.

Khudobin - put up a .909 save percentage on what everyone should agree is a very good team (Ducks) before getting punted to the minors. Was waived on Dec 14 and passed over by all 29 other teams. Put up a .918 save percentage in December in the AHL. Then .893 in January. Didn't seem like an awesome replacement at a $2.25 million cap hit. Finished the season strong with the Gulls and with hindsight, looks like he might have done better. But we'll never know.

In all honesty, once the Sharks are beaten by the Pens, the LR issue will die. Much like Yzerman was the shining example...until the Bolts lost.

Let's not forget the Jim Nill envy. He picks up every forward in the league, who cares if he can't find a goaltender to save his life. He'll literally double up on the Lehtonen mistake by acquiring another Lehtonen named Niemi and will pay them over $10 million combined. Who needs goaltending when you acquire Sharp, amirite? Stars have a great regular season, bounce the 86-point Wild in the first round, then fall brutally due to incompetent goaltending, something that absolutely everyone saw coming. You don't hear as much about Nill these days, it's all Yzerman, and will soon shift to how great Rutherford is.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Exactly! I don't get the outrage on this point. In fact, when they went down this road, full tank should have been in effect. Play EVERYBODY a lot. See what you've got. Play Chuck on the first line, first PP unit..... oh wait... now I get it. The full tank WAS on. Let's play our 5'0", one dimensional, impotent scoring center on the first line and give him prime playing opportunities. It will strangle any chance of generating offense and take us to the promised land..... Mathews here we come.

So, I guess I need to start tipping my hat to MB/MT and company. It was Chucky's fault we didn't get a top 3 draft pick, because he played too well when actually given an opportunity.

Full tank mode when you are solidly in a playoff spot is unforgiveable. It might make sense if you're a rebuilding team and want to offload vets. It makes NO sense when you have the best player in the world on the IR and aren't sure when he's coming back. It also makes no sense when your team was first across the board in all stats before his injury.

Deciding to freaking tank (which is not what happened btw) at the end of December is a freaking disgrace.

 

[jaffy27]

when all said and done we basically traded Prust for Scrivens, so thats not exactly costing nothing,

i really think MB believed Scrivens could turn this season around but would never admit that,

MBs problem is he is always looking for a cheap solution to a serious problem,

did MB really think that Scrivens was better then Tokarski? he must have, because if he didnt there is no reason to make either of those moves, you just keep Tokarski for the time being

You're kidding right!........you actually think he aquired Scrivens because he thought he would actually save the day, come in here, post a sub 2.00 GAA and a .925% save percentage???....I mean if he was actually that good, don't you think the Oilers would've had him with their team??......I think you wanna think this so you can justify your dislike for Bergevin......

You mention cheap solutions to serious problem, well, the only way you solve the major problem of losing Price, is acquiring a #1 goalie, which would've made absolutely no sense given that Price's injury was not clear cut out for the year type injury. Getting a Reimer who's got his own injury issues or Khudobin would've made us a 9th last place team to a 14th last place team....Fools Gold so to speak

 

[417]

Yes and I'd work to re-sign him for this year. We have to start worrying about winning now and less about picks. We've ALREADY built through the draft and it's time to add to it.

Personally, I'd go after Reimer now anyway, we could use him.

Also, we don't know that we would've got bounced in the first round for two reasons. First, Carey Price might've been ready to play. He was practicising in full gear when the season ended and if we were playoff bound might've actually returned. Secondly, Reimer's good enough that we might've been able to get through depending on who our opponents were. He's not the best goalie but he can actually steal some games. And by the end of the year Galchenyuk was our first line center so that would've helped greatly too. Honestly man, who the hell knows what happens if we make the playoffs?

Who the hell knows if we make the playoffs at all even with Reimer....thats the real question

Personally, I don't think you ever stop building through the draft, so disagree with that entirely. I'm glad draft picks weren't wasted on a pending UFA like Reimer who let's be honest, is not going to want to play behind Carey Price

That's likely the least desirable position in the entire NHL, its like being the backup QB to the best QB in the league.

 

[Habs4ev*]

You're kidding right!........you actually think he aquired Scrivens because he thought he would actually save the day

yes i do, MB is not that smart, his past has proven that,

can you explain what sense there is to that trade then?

what is your reasoning for making a trade for Scrivens when we already have 3 goalies who are apparently better?

it make no sense, the only reason would be MB THINKING Scrivens would be better then our goalies

 

[Whitesnake]

Neither lost. They both moved on. MB got the guy he wanted and LR got to work in SJ and be closer to his family. Thats why I think neither needs to discuss the issue and the professional thing for LR and his agent to say is the timing wasn't right but we like where we are now. No need to talk about how MB didn't wait to reschedule his interview, or that MB hired someone else without talking to LR.

MB is really getting a lot of hate for not rescheduling an interview from 4 years ago.

Sorry Man, but this will always me laugh...every time. You do réalisé that thé big fuss made about this is fueled by Both sides right? And right now most of our comments are targetting réponses more than thé décisions itself.

 

[417]

agreed,

only a fool does not learn from their mistakes,

it was MBs fault for not having a competent backup, going into next season with Price/Condon again is not learning from your mistakes, it would only show how foolish MB really is,

MB will show his true colors this off season

Price/Condon going into next year is pretty much a lock

So start get used to it

 

[hototogisu]

yes i do, MB is not that smart, his past has proven that,

can you explain what sense there is to that trade then?

what is your reasoning for making a trade for Scrivens when we already have 3 goalies who are apparently better?

it make no sense, the only reason would be MB THINKING Scrivens would be better then our goalies

Depth. He cost nothing and would spell Condon until Price was able to come back. Unfortunately he wasn't able to foresee that Price wasn't coming back.